Stable issues

[Maddison2511]

This is my first ever post on here so might have got it wrong, wondering if anyone has any ideas on what to do with my horse, we got him 3/4 month ago and everything has been an issue he is completely not what we was sold however we’re trying to get on with it, the main issue we’re having at the minute is stabling and as my yard requires this in winter it’s only going to get worse, he will go in the stable and stay in happily only when he has neighbours however when they are turned out before him he gets himself into a big state, spinning, sweating, kicking, weaving, everything and then once he comes out he is extremely bolshy and won’t stand still, but there’s no way to combat this as we can’t control when other people turn their horses out, he’s also like this if we stable him alone with no neighbours, we know no background on him either if something has happened in the past help/advice/suggestions please!!

 

[dogatemysalad]

Don't worry. Once the horses get into the winter routine, he'll settle when his friends are stabled around him. Just try to organise your turnout times to coincide with other liveries, or pair up with another horse owner.
It's not unusual for horses to get stressy when they see others getting fed and turned out before them, particularly as your boy has had some big changes this year.

 

[Starzaan]

This is very normal. People seem to forget that horses are herd animals. Being left on their own in the wild would mean death, so a lot of horses will panic if their neighbours leave without them.
now you know that he’s upset by this, I would either manage your turnout times and be there before the others turn out, or pair up with someone to ensure he’s never left alone.

 

[Maddison2511]

I think he may not be used to being stabled, on my yard we aren’t allowed to pair up with anyone other than our field mate and he is too much to handle for them, we also can’t match turn out times to other people at they turn out around 5am-7am and the earliest we can possibly get there is around half 7 which is why I was hoping someone has some suggestions of maybe something to calm/distract/get him more used to it, a lot of horses there are perfectly happy stabled on their own but biscuit is clearly just not one of them, we have put him on gut balancer to try prevent ulcers from the stress xx

 

[HazuraJane]

Oof. I have a mare who is quite like what you've described.
What I have found that works is TIME and also a hay net/treat ball/handwalking and more time.
3/4 months isn't very long, although I understand that when your horse is double-bucking and cantering (!!!yes, cantering!!!) inside their enclosure, each minute feels like an hour.

Hang the hay net before the other horses go out.
Don't reward the bad behaviour by giving food once the acting up has commenced.

Your horse needs to work out that he is safe and you can't work that out for him.
Spend time distracting him in a healthy way far beyond what you probably signed up for is a solution, and I understand how disruptive that is for you.

Perhaps you can set a tick on your calendar for three months from now, go all in on spending time with him, walking him in-hand, using a hay net, tossing in a treat ball, grooming him (my mare is the best-groomed horse in three counties, haha) and at the end of three months, re-evaluate.

 

[MissTyc]

If he's seriously distressed he might not "get used" to it, and that anxiety might generalise to other situations.
Is there any chance of 24/7 turnout with a stable group of friends, even if not at your existing yard?

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I had one like yours. Never been separated from his family herd before I bought him at 3 yrs old and would take the stable door off if left behind. It has taken patience and a lot of repetition to get where he is now which is he can go in or out first or last, first out and alone in the field, be left in the field when others are brought in, first onto the yard or last left on the yard. I did it in small few minute chunks with a reward at the end. If he kicked off at being left he would be ignored and only praised when he stopped. At first I never thought I was going to get anywhere with him but he cottoned on pretty quickly once he understood the rules and I made sure I was consistent which was the key.

 

[twiggy2]

I believe many horses never get used to other horses leaving them behind at turn out.
I think it is unrealistic to expect horses to just get used to it if they find it stressful, m years did not find it stressful but I still used to get there early so she was turned out first as they weren't given hay in the morning to help them settle.

 

[SO1]

Tricky one to manage if others are being fed and turned out 2.5 hours earlier especially if he is hungry or looking forward to nice grass and freedom.

Could you try putting him on a calmer. If he has eaten all his hay could someone chuck some hay in for him if they turnout early?

He may well have been on a yard where all horses were fed and turned out at similar times or he was one of the first ones to go out. So the new routine is frustrating for him.

 

[twiggy2]

I think he may not be used to being stabled, on my yard we aren’t allowed to pair up with anyone other than our field mate and he is too much to handle for them, we also can’t match turn out times to other people at they turn out around 5am-7am and the earliest we can possibly get there is around half 7 which is why I was hoping someone has some suggestions of maybe something to calm/distract/get him more used to it, a lot of horses there are perfectly happy stabled on their own but biscuit is clearly just not one of them, we have put him on gut balancer to try prevent ulcers from the stress xx

Sounds like your at the wrong yard for your horse and a move may be needed

 

[Upthecreek]

As others have said, some never settle being stabled or turned out alone. I used to have a horse that just couldn’t cope without another horse being in sight and I had to make sure he wasn’t in that situation because he would lose his mind to the point where he was dangerous. You may have to re-think where you are keeping your horse or change his routine so he is not left alone. Some horses have such a strong herd instinct that this is one of those issues that can’t always be overcome unfortunately, especially if they have always had company.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Most horses will get upset if left alone and all the other horses have been turned out, you need to change his management as in change yards or pay for him to go out with the others, your expectations of him are not reasonable especially as the yard is probably new to him as well if you have only just bought him.

 

[Winters100]

Well it will probably get better as (if I remember correctly) by November it is still dark at 7, and probably other liveries will not turn out before dawn. You said that you are allowed to pair up with your field mate, could you offer to turn both out at 7-30? I appreciate it is a bit later than the normal routine for the other horse, but if you offered to change rugs etc for the other owner they might agree. If not you probably just have to get up earlier to turn out with the others. To be honest I think that you are expecting a bit much in asking him to wait calmly while the others go out.

Also you may have to think about how you will cope in winter. Will your yard still have daily turn out? If not you will need to be prepared to spend a lot of time there to give him a good level of exercise and mental stimulation. If you won't have turnout and don't have time to commit then I would strongly suggest looking for another yard.

Good luck and I hope that you soon manage to find a routine that suits the horse

 

[Maddison2511]

Thankyou everyone for the help and suggestions, I am not meaning to ‘ask too much of him’ but obviously when you watch everyone else’s horses on the yard (even people who have had their horses less time than us) that are perfectly fine with others going out before them it’s a bit disheartening especially with everything that has gone wrong since getting him, he was sold to us as a novice horse basically perfect in all ways and has proved to be the complete opposite even sometimes a struggle for the extremely experienced yard manager to handle, the only option we really have is to try and hope he ‘gets used to it’ for now as a yard move isn’t an option at the moment and winter is fast approaching where there is set amount of turn out if any at all (I don’t like this either), it’s just we really don’t want him to send himself into stress colic or get ulcers due to the stress, does anyone have any good recommendations for calmers? We’ve been suggested magnesium but never used it

 

[Maddison2511]

Also please be kind, this is all new to us and we’re trying our best and getting advice off of as many experienced people as possible, we was sold a lie and are just trying to deal as best as we can because we don’t want to give up on him, we did loan for a while first but that horse was an angel compared to biscuit

 

[Maddison2511]

Also we are going to try do the field mate thing but at the moment her stable is outside and ours is in the barn she’s trying to move but it’s proving a hassle! But if she does get moved into the barn with me then we can turn them in and out at the same time, just then don’t want the issue of them being too attached?

 

[Dasher66]

You could try reducing his food to just hay and grass in order to see if he has a sensitivity to a foodstuff. Alfalfa or soya are common culprits but it could be anything - or just too much for what he’s doing.

 

[Winters100]

Oh dear, it does sound difficult. Is a yard move really impossible, because I am afraid that with no / restricted turn out you are going to find him even more problematic. Also please don't underestimate the time that it takes to properly care for a horse who has no / very limited turn out. And horses can be dangerous, so you need to take care even when on the ground. If you are having problems please do consider wearing hat and gloves to handle him.

I agree with D66 that you should just have him in hay for now. Unless he is very underweight it won't hurt him if he gets a bit below ideal condition.

Also I am wondering what sort of work is he getting? Could it be that he was getting a lot more exercise before he came to you? And if so is there a way that you can safely increase the length and the intensity of the work? Lunging or loose schooling if you are not confident to give him hard ridden work. Generally horses who have too much unused energy are more difficult to handle.

What does the YO say about him? And is there an option that you could pay YO or one of the other liveries to turn him out first for now?

Can you tell us a bit more about his background and his current routine? It might give some ideas for more suggestions.

Don't despair. Often the problems that seem so difficult turn out to be surprisingly easy to solve, but you will need to be willing to change the things that need changing if you are going to turn things around.

 

[Maddison2511]

He came to us extremely extremely underweight with very bad top line, we’re just about getting him to the a good condition now, I’m guessing he was extremely good for the woman (dealer) before us as he was so starved and had 0 energy, we was told he was only used as a happy hacker before and I think he was only rode a couple times a week if that, he is on a 1 feed a day to keep his condition as there is also basically no grass left, he gets ridden 3/4 times a week at the moment(schooling with the odd hacks) but we are also going to add lunging to that in the winter, I am aiming to get a few more intense workouts in per week, overall I think we are dealing with him okay and others around us have said how good we are doing but to us it all just feels very disheartening and not enjoyable at the minute, we have got someone else on board who is going to give him an intense work out 4 times a week soon hopefully that will help but it really does just feel like one thing after another??‍

 

[Maddison2511]

I don’t think much has been done with him before, since he has come to us he’s had his first brushing boots on, first fly mask, first fly spray, we was told he was head shy when he came to the woman before and she helped him get better with that (so possibly abuse/neglect especially with how starved he was) but these are all just guesses as we have no real background info, he is not on alfalfa or soya we reduced his feed to a lower energy one a couple weeks after getting him

 

[Maddison2511]

Possibly not used to being stabled and has been left in a field a lot as apparently he used to be in a herd which he was bottom of so never managed to get any hay last winter, yard move is not possible at the minute but may have to really consider if things get a lot worse over winter but then it’s unsettling him and taking him away from all his friends again

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

He came to us extremely extremely underweight with very bad top line, we’re just about getting him to the a good condition now, I’m guessing he was extremely good for the woman (dealer) before us as he was so starved and had 0 energy, we was told he was only used as a happy hacker before and I think he was only rode a couple times a week if that, he is on a 1 feed a day to keep his condition as there is also basically no grass left, he gets ridden 3/4 times a week at the moment(schooling with the odd hacks) but we are also going to add lunging to that in the winter, I am aiming to get a few more intense workouts in per week, overall I think we are dealing with him okay and others around us have said how good we are doing but to us it all just feels very disheartening and not enjoyable at the minute, we have got someone else on board who is going to give him an intense work out 4 times a week soon hopefully that will help but it really does just feel like one thing after another??‍

You could still look at what he is eating and *only* feed grass-based foods, soaked grass nuts and grass chaff will help him to increase his weight safely, along with ad-lib hay, which I hope he is getting anyway.

 

[Maddison2511]

His feed is good we’ve had help with it already and he no longer needs to increase weight he’s at a good weight now just want him to maintain it which he seems to be and build a bit more muscle, he’s not bursting with energy he’s just a very stressy horse and the only supplement he has is gut balancer recommended to put him on by the vet

 

[HappyHollyDays]

If he is that stressy try some valerian. It’s perfectly natural and as you don’t compete it won’t be an issue. It might just take the edge off him so you can at least start trying to get him more relaxed where he is.

 

[Starzaan]

This may sound harsh and is in no way meant to, I am simply trying to help and I’m not very good at articulating what I want to say in the right way!
To me, this sounds like a case of wanting the horse to fit around you rather than fitting in around the horse. Obviously I don’t know your circumstances, but I am out and turning my horses out at 4:30am every morning year round. Sometimes horses come into our lives who require more sacrifices in terms of time and routine changes than others.
It is also worth noting that people’s definitions will vary. I class one of my horses as a novice ride, but I think he probably would be too much for a true novice. Especially when it comes to his care. He isn’t forgiving in the slightest, and can be extremely stressful and highly strung if given the chance.
I would suggest a yard move, herd turnout, and either finding a good freelance groom, pairing up with another livery, or changing your routine to suit him better.
my inbox is always open if you need any help or suggestions. I have run yards for many years and taught riders of all levels and am happy to help if I can.

 

[twiggy2]

Many horses are a novice evidence when they live out full time in an established herd, it's how horses are designed to live.
Stabling upsets many and the chances are if you move him to a place he can live out in a herd all the time your problems may dissappear.
Restricted turn out with one other horse is as you mention likely to create you another problem with dependency on another horse.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

His feed is good we’ve had help with it already and he no longer needs to increase weight he’s at a good weight now just want him to maintain it which he seems to be and build a bit more muscle, he’s not bursting with energy he’s just a very stressy horse and the only supplement he has is gut balancer recommended to put him on by the vet

So what do you actually feed him on?

 

[Maddison2511]

Personally I do not class a horse that naps and bucks very often a novice ride and as advertised ‘perfect for a riding school, first horse or RDA’, I would not be letting my disabled child on him ever, napping is also a vice that should have been disclosed but he apparently had no vices, we do have a yard manger/groom but she only arrives at 8am when the others have already gone out, we are working on getting there earlier to turn him out before others now but even if we try this at some point we will be caught out so may try a calmer? he’s previously been in a herd in a past home and was bottom of it, didn’t work out well and contributed to the state he was in when he came to us

 

[Winters100]

The thing is with the horse being lowest in the pack that it does not necessarily mean that he should not be in a pack - just that things have to be managed to make sure that he isn't bullied and gets enough food. Also he would not necessarily be the lowest in a new pack, and I have to say that I agree with twiggy2 that there is a good chance that this could solve the problems. May I ask what is the reason that a yard move is impossible, because it sounds to me as if it will be essential for you to be able to manage this horse, so maybe you need to find a way.

I don't think that a calmer will solve this. It can take the edge off for an unsettled horse, but the behaviour that you describe sounds more than just being unsettled. That having been said I have not had a lot of personal experience using them, so maybe someone else has better knowledge than me in this area.

I am afraid that the way I see this is that you have 2 choices. Either avoid the problem (turn out first / live out), or deal with it, which will take time and require you to be there when the problem arises.

It sounds like he might be a horse who is a bit too challenging for you at the moment, so if he came from a dealer are you still within time to send him back? Or to sell on with full disclosure of the issues. I know that this is not what you want to hear, and I am sorry that you find yourself in this situation, but unfortunately with horses there is seldom a magic cure for behavioural issues, and we all have to be realistic about what we can deal with.

 

[JulesRules]

Right, so the first thing I'd do is have a chat with the yard owner/ manager and explain that your current stable isn't working out and the reasons why. Most good yard managers will sort things out if there is a genuine welfare issue and no other way around it and might see if someone will swap stables to be near horses that aren't out so early or near your field mate.

If there was no joy with that I would give myself a set period to try to sort it out. Does the horse have a treat ball? If so, can the owner of the horse next to yours just chuck it in to distract yours just before turning out. I do this with my 2 who are a bit joined at the hip when I take one away to ride. To be honest though this is unlikely to work with the extreme reaction you have described but it's a simple fix worth a try and if you can do multiple things that all help a little then you may get to a manageable point ( I use ulcer kind cubes in my treat balls so this might help with the stress too). Other people have made suggestions about looking at feed/ herbs/ calmers etc that you could try as well.

If this doesn't fix things you have 3 options and you will have to decide on your priorities 1) sell the horse 2) find a more suitable yard or 3) get up earlier.

Or I guess you could always get a second horse. For me that's the bonus of having 2 as I never have to worry about what other people are doing.

I hope you work it out.