Stallion advice

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twinklinggem

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Hi i am having to retire my mare so i would like to put her in foal as she has such good blood lines and is a fantastic mare it would be a shame not to have a foal off her.

She is a 16hh TB with bad feet so want to avoid that
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also shes not really dressage so i owuld like something to improve that if i could.

What sort of stallion would i be looking at to be honest i would love a coloured foal.
 
what about Sambertino, he's an absolute cracker. Samaii looks stunning too.
Or Sempers Spirit, horses of that line? or Masterpiece?
for guaranteed colour you want homozygous.
Just wondered why you are having to retire her... sorry, can i just say that if it's because she's broken down, then the reason could be hereditary etc.
 
I would also want to know what's wrong with her feet!

In terms of coloured dressage sires, there is only one UK stallion worth considering IMHO - Sambertino. He's got a decent perfomance record (including being a Pavo Cup semi finalist 2 years running and competing successfuly both here and abroad).

He is the only coloured stallion standing in this country who has been 100 day performance tested, where he gained an excellent dressage index of 113.99. He also scored 10s for character and attitude to work, as well as 9s for his temperament and constitution and paces. He was 2nd ranking dressage sire in the Futurity series in 2007 and a tremendous number of his progeny are competing at a decent level.

http://www.sambertino.com/sambertino_profile.shtml

I would put Samaii up there with him as well, but obviously he is not yet as proven in competition or with progeny. He's really one to watch for the future though, IMHO.

I have always found the stud helpful and easy to deal with, and very knowledgable.
 
Ashbank, this is absolutely not a knock/snark, as I'm sure that Sambertino is a good stallion, but what do you mean tremendous number of his progeny are competing at a decent level. ?

What is tremendous? And what is a decent level?

This is why NED is so important to British breeding, so that quantitative analysis (straight numbers) can take the place of subjective statement/opinion, which in time become truisms, which then become fact. It's uncomfortable but necessary.
 
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She is a 16hh TB with bad feet so want to avoid that
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also shes not really dressage so i owuld like something to improve that if i could.

What sort of stallion would i be looking at to be honest i would love a coloured foal.

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If she has 'bad feet' in the way a LOT of TBs have 'bad feet' then the one thing you want to avoid at all costs is anything with a lot of TB blood IMHO. And you of course want to be sure the stallion you use - of any breed other than TB/TBx - has fantastic feet! (The rest of him has to be pretty good too!)

Unless you go for a homozygous for colour stallion you only have 50% chance of colour anyway (and there aren't many GOOD homozygous coloured stallions that don't have a lot of TB - although I'm sure someone will be able to list a few) so aim for a GOOD foal by picking a stallion who will complement your mare and produce a foal with a future!

Think: is foal for keeping or for selling - that will influence what stallion you use.

How like (or unlike) the mare do you want the foal to be? Do you want bigger or smaller? Light weight - or more bone?? Etc, etc. A good horse is never a bad colour - a lot of coloureds aren't necessarily good (believe me, I bred one and it's the worst foal I ever bred!)
 
I've followed the link to his stud card, and yes, this stallion has got a great many of his stock competing successfully.
I am getting increasingly fed up with this idea that only "World Class " stallions should be considered.
I am sorely tempted to do a poll on the remainder of this whole forum asking how many horseowners actually want as their own horses "World Class" animals and how many actually want trainable sensible all round performers who will take them to the middle levels of the Affilliated competitions. (feel free to add to this post if you think I'm right!)
This is not "Tall Poppy" syndrome either, I want this country to breed the best in the world as much as anyone, just not to the exclusitivety of everything else!
For goodness sake let's stop this obsession with picking holes in every stallion anyone asks about that isn't considered to be one of the best in the world.
If we all followed the idea of only ever breeding the top class horses to the top class stallions what do you think the majority of the Uk owners would ride? most of them couldn't cope with that sort of horse which as any professional knows, takes a professional or incredibly experienced rider to ride.
Yes, it's good to have a database of numbers to check against, but the sort of person who posted their original question was asking about a nice stallion who would improve her mare's faults, not how high it is in the rankings, Sambertino has proved his stock are good horses, maybe not the best in the world but so what? Does that mean he shouldn't be considered?
In my experience people choose stallions for a host of reasons; they may just like the look of it, or like it's stock, or want a good temperament.
Yes there are many who look at the records and go for that as a reason, but they tend to be people who are already knowlegeable about rankings etc in the first place.
I hope the day never arises when someone logs on to a site, looks which stallion has the best performance record, and chooses it on that basis.
As any breeder knows, there is an awful lot more to consider.
One person's decent level may be PN or affilliated dressage wins, it is not necessarily getting placed in the world rankings.
To a lot of riders in the uk, Affilliated comps are the leel they want to aim at, so yes, the lower results should be considered.
For what it's worth I think he looks a nice sort and might suit your mare, but you need to look at a lot more than just the performance record...
 
To me temperament is really all that matters, if I can't do anything with it it can be as stunning/Olympic standard whatever but of no use to me!
 
henryhorn, i totally agree, while we need fantastic potentially top-level youngsters to go out and win medals on, we also need many more even-tempered, trainable, forgiving, generous, sound horses for the majority of riders to enjoy riding. So, well said!
 
Right ok thanks for replys.

She evented all her life and has ranked up many wins,she has a fantastic temperamnet and i would like to keep that in the foal,i don't want a world beater just a nice looking alround horse for the furture i intend to keep it,i have retired her due to navicular and shes 15 now and has worked hard all her life so now its time to take it easy at home with us,have spoken to the vet and he said there is not a problem with her having a foal,she did have one before we had her but it was still born !
hope that clears a few things up
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henryhorn, i totally agree, while we need fantastic potentially top-level youngsters to go out and win medals on, we also need many more even-tempered, trainable, forgiving, generous, sound horses for the majority of riders to enjoy riding. So, well said!

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Well said Kerry and HH - I especially agree with the 'trainable' bit!
 
Looking at Sambertino's grading results he is obviously more than an "ordinary" stallion, so perhaps I'm doing him a diservice saying he isn't world class.
He looks a super horse to me and I think most of you will understand what I meant, even though it wasn't expressed as well as it might have been...
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I should also say Haniki spends an awful lot of her weekends starting riders XC. She is in a very good place to see what the "average" rider needs to succeed!
 
twinklinggem, i'd look very seriously at Sambertino and Samaii, perhaps also Utah van Erpekhom (stunning coloured sjer) and maybe Phanten? i don't know anything about him though, but he looks lovely.
must admit, i'm already thinking of which coloured stallion to pick for my girl when she retires!
Uptons Deli Circus throws some cracking stock too, event sire, very nice.
 
Totally agree with HH.
Yes, we need to encourage world class breeding and I think people such as the Funnell's are doing that with the 'Billy' stud. But there will always be a market for nicely bred, workman like stock with good temperaments and the ability to be successful at the lower end.
 
Henry

I believe that you are pushing this thread more than a little out of context. I also have a feeling that you are a stallion owner in the West Country. Am I right? If you are, then I understand that you have been more than a little personal about me to people I do a lot of business with. If that's not you then I apologise unreservedly.

What you are saying, is that you are increasingly fed up with this idea that only "World Class " stallions should be considered.

I'm not sure where in this thread that has any context, as I think that you are refering to my request for qualification for the statement tremendous number of his progeny are competing at a decent level.

As the OP has made it evident that she/he would like to breed a performance (which I take to mean anything above happy hacker) horse, surely one of the requirements of any stallion she considers, is that he has produced performers. Or am I wrong? The question I raised was not knocking the stallion in any way, it was simply a straight question asking for a backing up of the statement made. If that was your read on my question, perhaps you should reread it and only look at the black and white rather than any spin you chose to put into it.

By the same token, I am getting more than a little tired with you (Henry) taking my words out of context, and spinning them in such a way as to have a detrimental effect on me. If you're who I think you are, then I understand your reasons, but whzether you are or are not, that doesn't give you the right to do this. This is a discussion board, not a "keep everyone in the dark board".
 
I drafted a reply then decided perhaps it wouldn't be fair to bring a disgreement into the public forum.
Suffice to say I have no axe to grind, do not stand a stallion at public stud, and am damned certain I know no-one you know.
All I will say in public is that your replies often sound very critical of other people's stallions which I find rather sad.
Nit picking (and that's what the post today you made was about) doesn't help anyone. The stallion's results were posted in a link and yes, he has got a tremendous number of his progeny out competing.
It's the unspoken hints in your replies I find wind me up; anyone reading your reply would assume the stallion mentioned's reputation was based on hearsay, when in fact it was there in black and white on the link.
I will respond via pm..
 
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I am getting increasingly fed up with this idea that only "World Class " stallions should be considered.
I am sorely tempted to do a poll on the remainder of this whole forum asking how many horseowners actually want as their own horses "World Class" animals and how many actually want trainable sensible all round performers who will take them to the middle levels of the Affilliated competitions. (feel free to add to this post if you think I'm right!)



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Well that's two of us!
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World Class stallions are fine - if you've got a mare that justifies the investment! But IF you breed to a 'World Class stallion' with MANY mares, you'll get a foal who does NOT have the potential to BE 'world class' and won't have the attributes needed for a happy hacker or Riding Club level horse!!

I am constantly seeing riders buying horses by big-name stallions - that they can't ride one side of! I have a foal here by a big name stallion out of a very nice - if hot - mare and it's already evident that the foal is going to spend it's life being 'a handful' - and NOT the right horse for the owner who bred it!

The World Class stallions have generally been produced and competed by top professional riders - and the attributes that MAKE them 'World Class' - in many cases - make them (and many of their progeny) TOTALLY unsuitable for the average amateur owner/breeder.

Many amateur owner/breeders are looking for a keeper - not a seller!! They want temperament, maybe a 'duplicate' of the mare they have, maybe something with more brain or a more laidback temperament than the mare they've got! They need to IGNORE 'World Class' and decide what breed/type/individual will complement their mare and give them a reasonable chance of producing the horse they want to keep and ride in the future!

I don't know if the OP is an amateur breeder/rider - or more ambitious for the progeny of her mare. But if she wants a PROVEN coloured stallion, Sambertino would fit the bill!

And - just for the record Ken - I have no personal interest in Sambertino - or any OTHER stallion other than my own - and although you seem to have an opinion about ME, I don't know you and nor do I have any opinion about you except that you manage to use this forum to promote your stallions without the Moderators getting their knickers in a twist (see http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2716333/an/0/page/0#2716333)

But I do find it unfortunate that when people disagree with you, you start to throw personal insults!! NOT what a discussion forum should be about!
 
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Oh dear never expected all this !!

I am not a breeder but i am a very experienced rider and all i wanted was some advice on a nice stallion for my mare as i am not going to be able to compete her anymore so looking to the furture really and i would like a nice foal off her i can keep.
 
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What is tremendous? And what is a decent level?

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No knock/snark taken. I think you'll find a high percentage of Sambertino's progeny are competing either nationally or internationally - this is more than decent enough a level for the majority of people in this country who are breeding a horse.

Of course, what makes it more impressive is that some of the mares a stallion like Sambertino has covered will be much more 'ordinary' than the sort of mares that the so called "world class" stallions will get - and yet they are still getting the results. Clearly his ability is as prepotent as his temperament, and I think this is what makes him an ideal stallion for a case like the one the OP has posted.

I've asked you for information on coloured stallions before Ken, and they are clearly not your area of expertise. The OP mentioned that a coloured foal would be nice, which simply isn't going to happen to a solid coloured mare from any of the (solid coloured) stallions that you are promoting.
 
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shocked.gif
Oh dear never expected all this !!

I am not a breeder but i am a very experienced rider and all i wanted was some advice on a nice stallion for my mare as i am not going to be able to compete her anymore so looking to the furture really and i would like a nice foal off her i can keep.

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Well that's easy! Ignore all the sniping around the edges! Do you want more substance? Which discipline interests you most? Is colour important?

If the answer to the latter is yes, then go and have a look at Sambertino - particularly at his feet (I'm NOT suggesting there's anything wrong with them - but that's the one particular area you want to improve on in your mare so they HAVE to be very good!)

He's got PLENTY of credentials - and he's 'fashionable' - and you have a 50% chance of a coloured. If you DON'T get coloured, it should still be a good horse!!

IF you want more 'substance' then consider an RID that MOVES and has good feet! On a TB, RID's RARELY throw a 'heavy' foal! But they DO add brain!
 
Just for the record, can I stress that I have no affiliation whatsoever with any of the stallions i mentioned in my totally honest, unbiased answer to the OP. I'm just a rider and very small-time breeder.
Shame that this has turned nasty, and totally unnecessary, when some very valid comments were made.
 
All I will say in public is that your replies often sound very critical of other people's stallions which I find rather sad. In your opinion, is anyone else allowed one?

Nit picking (and that's what the post today you made was about) doesn't help anyone. Again, in your opinion. When judging me raise your standards, or just try reading what's on the page, rather than trying to find something that's not there.

It's the unspoken hints in your replies I find wind me up they are unspoken because they do not exist (except possibly in your head)

anyone reading your reply would assume you don't speak for anyone else here, only yourself.

And just to confim that, here's a quote from the poster to whom I posed the question...........No knock/snark taken.
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when in fact it was there in black and white on the link which was posted as a result of me asking the question.

I've asked you for information on coloured stallions before Ken, and they are clearly not your area of expertise It's not a question of expertise, what I can tell you, is that there are probably half a dozen coloured sport horse stallions on the continent. About two of them are useable although I never would because there are around 2500 other stallions ahead of them in terms of useability.

you start to throw personal insults Where? Janet, just because you say it don't make it true.

To continue the debate about information, I see another statement "a high percentage of his offspring compete nationally or internationally" can some someone define high percentage?

BTW, so that we are on a level playing field, feel free to ask me the same questions about my stallions any time you want.
 
I have bred from this stallion, and recently sold him to pro riders as I am moving abroad. He has qualified for 5 year olds, competed in 2 and been placed in 2 newcomers, and he has a temperament to die for. Never spooks, bold and careful. Definitely one to look out for.
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http://www.irelandhorse.com/Off%20main%20pages/Luidam.htm

I was so impressed with results, I have put my other mare into foal with him, due next year.
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Good luck in whoever you decide.
 
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To continue the debate about information, I see another statement "a high percentage of his offspring compete nationally or internationally" can some someone define high percentage?

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That was my comment again - badly phrased. Read it as a significant percentage of his offspring..
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I'm not even going to justify that response with a reply ummmmm................you just did.
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As a lurker not a poster I have not often felt compelled to post but I must say Ken you have just gone down considerably in my estimation. Please remember this is a public forum and your attitude could reflect badly on your business if you continue to post in this manner
 
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All I will say in public is that your replies often sound very critical of other people's stallions which I find rather sad. In your opinion, is anyone else allowed one?

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<font color="blue"> Yes - we are!! Although your responses often suggest otherwise! This IS a discussion forum!</font>



you start to throw personal insults Where? Janet, just because you say it don't make it true.

<font color="blue">You have a very short memory - try re-reading your own 'Rant' thread! But don't worry - chuck as many insults as you like. Some of us have thick skins and can take it. Others will just make a mental note NOT to ask you a question (which might be a bit of a disadvantage for you if they're looking for a stallion!
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) </font>
 
Very good janet, but you still didn't provide any evidence, but don't allow the truth to get in the way of your good story.

Zizz, you didn't receive the PM that I did.

Remember where this came from. A simple non axe grinding question to a poster. She provided the information whilst stating very clearly that she did NOT consider my question in any way snarky. You're allowing the sizzle to get in the way of the steak. The "anti's" in this thread are allowed a point of view, yet seemingly I'm not allowed to ask a question, that doesn't seem very balanced.

One of the MOST important parts of contributing to a discussion board, is ensuring that you read what is written, WITHOUT putting a personal read or spin on it. I have no control over how people choose to read and interpret what I have to say.

FYI, there are way more people on this board who regularly PM or email me to say who they LOVE my style, clear thinking and fortright approach, and have become clients as a result. Those were their words, not mine.

Finally, my hat off to Ashbank, I raised the question about the opinion, and again you didn't take any offense, you just anwsered the question. Is that because you simply read the question and took it in it's black and white sense, without any kind of spin on it? Evidently it was. Thankyou.
 
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Very good janet, but you still didn't provide any evidence, but don't allow the truth to get in the way of your good story.

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And that is the second time you have implied I am a liar - something I take rather strong exception to! I did NOT 'provide evidence' because it's 'off topic' and rather hijacking the OP's thread but as you insist!!

You said - on your rant thread: "Janet, you were once an articulate and intelligent woman, what happened? " Now no doubt it's just MY interpretation that says that's an insult!

You also said: "Classic journalistic method, take someone's words add your own and blame them. I can see why we lost."

Now YOU claim that it's all our fault for 'misinterpreting' what you say - I would suggest that YOU take great care to make implications that are pretty clear - and then deny that's what you meant.

Funny that it's always YOU who are misinterpreted - most of us manage to say what we mean without people inferring we mean something different!

You said: "FYI, there are way more people on this board who regularly PM or email me to say who they LOVE my style, clear thinking and fortright approach, and have become clients as a result. Those were their words, not mine."

Yep - that's a good one. WE don't know how many people have PM'd you in that vein - the same as you don't know how many have passed between other members saying something rather different!
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