Stallion suggestions please :) *Pic to help*

[becca1305]

Ive always said I would love to put my mare in foal at some point, and have discussed it with instructor and vet, but due to circumstances I'm starting to think it might be best to put her in foal sooner than I initially thought so I would like to get some ideas on stallions . I have some experience with foals and yearlings having handled my instructors, and have had my WB from an unhandled 2 yo. Ive also worked out the costs inc worst case scenarios so I know what Im letting myself in for, I know it would be cheaper to go out and buy a foal but this mare means an awful lot to me and is the best horse Ive ever owned, having plenty of attributes I want passed on, and I'd love to have something out of her for me for the future as a keeper .

We think it is possible that she has already had a foal as a youngster over in Ireland. A SJ instructor asked me if she had had a foal based on the noise she made over a fence and when I spoke to my vet about it he said it was perfectly possible.

She is 16hh 1/2 an inch ISH 3/4 TB (though she is pretty solid type) coloured. I would ideally LOVE a coloured foal from her (Im going to send off some hairs for testing on the off chance she is homozygous so then I wouldn't just focus on coloured stallions and particularly homozygous ones), but if I can't find the right coloured stallion then I would use a solid colour rather than breed from something based on colour. The foal would be as a keeper for me to hopefully event in the future .

Mares best points -

ridden work : XC - absolutely dream, genuine, scopey, honest with a '5th leg' and she absolutely adores it.

Weaker points : DR - nice mover but not particularly flashy.

SJ - isn't as light on her feet as I would like naturally. Doesn't find tightish turns or short striding sequences easy. Doubtless will improve the more she does but not natural for her. + points = pretty scopey jumped 1.4m at home (not a course of), jumped round 1.15m course as practice for her debut 1.10m ODE at the end of last season pretty well but I'd say course was pretty generous on space.

Conclusion - perhaps BSJA stallion? with flashy movement or do I need to add more blood and focus on eventing TBs? Also must be MINIMUM of 16.2hh. Mare is only *just* big enough for me (6ft, most of it leg) at just over 16hh so ideally offspring would finish up a bit bigger than her. Also I would be looking at lighter stallions as mare is already rather solid.

Conformation : Im not sure theres any points which particularly stand out, she has pretty good feet - entirely BF atm. But I do find it hard to be objective when I look at her every day! Vet and instructor both said they would be happy to breed from her, but if theres any area that you think a particular stallion would really improve on please tell me .


The stallion I really like the look of is Airborn at the shovern stud. Would he be a suitable contender, or am I going off on completely the wrong track and would be better looking at pure TB stallions and sacrificing colour?

Rubbish pic of podgy, grubby mare during her holidays enjoying the solarium lighting but its the only side shot minus rug/tack that I have! So normally more top line, less tummy , though I suppose this is more the condition they like them in for getting in foal rather than fully fit?

Shot to show solid type - big chest - (and nature ). (ETA I stopped holding her literally for the camera button to be pressed). She does seem to adore children and is ever so gentle and careful with him.

Jumping

Sorry for the sizings!

I recognise that whilst I do have experience with young stock I have no experience with selecting stallions. So recommendations from people experienced in breeding would be really welcome I'll also mention again that I would be looking to breed solely to produce something for me to keep . Thankyou.

 

[HashRouge]

I don't know about stallions, but she is lovely!

 

[JenHunt]

I can't help with choosing stallions, but in terms of her conformation - I'd say she's a nice sort, nicely put together, but like most horses she has bits you might want to improve on for the next generation...

IMO (and while I'm an experienced horse person, I'm no professional)...
her shoulder is quite upright, which is probably what stops her movement from being flashy.
she's relatively short backed, and I wouldn't want to make her any more compact which could reduce her flexibility on tighter turns.
I would want her to have shorter canon bones/ be more let down at the hock especially, to help reduce injury risk for jumping.

so nothing I'd worry about hugely, but things to consider.

I would be inclined to look at a dressage/SJ stallion to give the scope and flashier paces and perhaps a little lightness of foot.

good luck on your search!

 

[becca1305]

Thankyou both

JenHunt - its interesting you should say that about her back, I was thinking I'd need to make sure I bred to nothing with a shorter back than her as shes quite short, so good to know that Im not completely off in my thoughts! . She just fits a 17.5" saddle, I have her jump saddle with Fward cut panels but could do with an 18" for me really. Your other points arent things Ive really noticed so thankyou .

 

[rowy]

There is a dun quarter horse stallion called "docs leaguer" and he is absolutely stunning with the best temperment and was champion at PSG level in switzerland for 2 years running. Very very trainable temperment as has competed to high level western before going to dressage and back to western again and still going strong at 19.
He is only 15.2hh though.
PM me if you want more details

 

[becca1305]

thanks rowy, way too small though unfortunately! I'd need another hand on him . The downside of being tall!

 

[eventrider23]

She is a lovely sort isn't she!

I like Airborn but I think if you are looking for something to event then you need to go for more blood as he is quite chunky. Personally i would aim to inject quite a bit of either TB or Trakehner blood into her to add the refinement and movement especially if looking to breed an eventer.

It depends on your budget really overall....

A coloured stallion to consider is Commander. Owned by the same person as Utah van Erpekom but he is half TB and blood himself whilst being a good mover and jumper.

A lovely BIG (in height not bone) coloured stallion is My Squire Caretino who stands at Brendon Stud in Sussex. Excellent jumper - incredibly neat - with flashy paces he would possibly be a good non TB choice - especially if looking to add height.

 

[crazycoloured]

what a nice mare,if she were mine id use a good thoroughbred on her..if you look on stallionsonline they have a list on there...

 

[jcoombs]

I'm using the stallion zanzibar this year, his offspring have been very successful with a fab temperment, he's only 6 and is jumping 1m30's consitantly, and he's qualified for hoys this year.

 

[mellissa]

Utah van Erpekom is scopey and I think moves quite well. Not sure if he passes colour on but he is coloured, and has some offspring jumping well.

With regard to breeding from your mare, it depends what you are looking to do with the foal. I am into showjumping and so only really know SJ stallions. There are few coloured stallions, as to be honest colour is pretty low on our list. But go with one that is throwing good stock and jumped to a good level itself. Your riding ability also would influence your decision- no good breeding a super star that you cannot ride one side of, like wise one that doesn't fulfill your expectations.

Breeding is a gamble, and you are aware of the risks and financial implications of it. It is for you to keep, I don't know if you are a millionaire or not, but sometimes life throws curve balls. If you still want to breed from your mare- try to make it more appealing to the Market should you have to sell one day.

You don't say if she has an affiliated comp record and looking at her she looks very sweet and lovely. Use a stallion with a good record, temperament, movement and stock that is rideable and willing. There are many more leisure riders and amateurs than professionals, and a good allrounder will find a nice home if necessary.

Check Utah out, I do not know much about him other than a friend has a lovely young stallion by him, and rates this young stallion highly.

 

[becca1305]

thank you everyone, I'm just off to haul the horses in for their tea since they are looking miserable at me through the window, I will check out all the recommendations when Im back

 

[maestro]

As you are in Leics and so am I why not come and see what my boy Weston Justice is producing. He is back upto Stallions AI in Shropshire tomorrow but we have a number of youngstock by him here to show what he produces. As an advanced Event stallion he has proved himself and his stock are too now. He usually throws taller than himself and there has already been coloured youngsters by him. Indeed whenever put to a coloured mare the offspring has been coloured, although that would be a gamble

 

[becca1305]

well thank you all

eventrider23 -thanks, commander looks lovely. do you happen to know where he is standing at stud etc so I can get more info? I can only find him on the logres farm website which says he is for sale. I will have a look at my squire caretino .

jcoombs - thanks. he is lovely . not sure whether he will be fine enough though, decisions decisions!

mellissa - I am very interested in utah van erpekom, thanks . I understand the points you make . Of course we can never know for certain about the future, I meant more I am not breeding to try and sell something to make a profit and covering my costs is not a concern. In fact more likely than a monetary based issue would be (being morbid), if something happened to me I'd want them to go to ridden homes rather than have an early and prolonged retirement at home. However equally breeding for me like this as a likely one off aiming to produce a forever horse is such a commitment I wouldn't go through it with the aim to produce a market pleaser rather than what I want. That said, whilst I have ridden difficult horses I want a horse I can enjoy and I far more enjoy something that is willing, honest and works with me rather than against me - which is usually a market pleaser anyway .

Mare has an excellent unaffill record she didn't come home without a top 3 rosette unaffil ODE-ing last year and finished the season at 1.10m level. She also did her first BE which she came 5th at. I think realistically she will become a good horse at novice in the future when I have the time to affiliate her properly. I am not looking to try and breed a 4* horse or anything silly but equally more of an eventer than an all rounder- be nice to try and produce something with potential for novice/intermediate, so a middling level eventer I suppose . Though if foaly turns out anything like his mum he will be a very easily rideable all rounder as well as a decent eventer . I agree, and temperament in a stallion is important to me, however with a lovely mare who has been very willing and trainable (Ive had her since a just backed youngster and she was my first project to train) at least Im in the beneficial position of having a nice temperament and good attitude to work on the dam side . I am going to do some more research into Utah as he is gorgeous my main dilemma atm is whether to choose a pure TB or not!

maestro - thats interesting, I suggested weston justice to a friend after hearing such favourable reviews of him, she ended up going with mill law as she visited him and loved him and didn't look at any others. I can't believe I didn't think of him, I guess Ive just been focussed on coloureds as my heart would love her to have a coloured, but my head knows to pick the right stallion regardless of colour will have a look now. ETA He's just a little too small for me I'm afraid, I've set my absolute minimum at 16.2hh as being a lanky so and so mare is a little small for me and I would like to try and produce something taller. thank you though, he is a stunning lad.

Also thankyou to everyone for the PMs

 

[marie+bella]

hi my sister bread her mare to handle and the filly is fantastic, extremely calm yet with fantastic huge flashy movements. also completely stunning and looks like she'l be making 16.2+. she really is a fab horse you couldn't ask for anything better . also know quite a few other people who have used him and he seems to of always produced brilliant foals.

what part of the country are you looking in though as that makes a big difference x

 

[becca1305]

thankyou, will have a look . If AI pretty much any part of the country, I will visit any stallion before I use though so ideally not cornwall or cumbria. Im based in leics. If natural cover then it depends on the arrangements available and again ideally closer to home.

 

[Lgd]

I took a bit of a punt on this chap last year as he was a first season sire.

http://www.holdenfolddressage.co.uk/spyder.html

some pics of him jumping on their facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.221441024567355.62816.221413857903405&type=3

He's got a lovely temperament and I wanted a little bit bigger, bit more refinement and something that could jump and move on the flat as the foal is intended for eventing.

Just waiting for foalie to land at the moment (due 18th May) but I know they are very pleased with the ones that are on the ground so far.

This is the mare - as you can see quite chunky (she is Orlov x TB/Connemara) and stands just on 15.3hh. Good little dressage horse and has competed to PSG, she also has one heck of a pop in her although is not supposed to jump after a field injury a few years back. (she has been known to jump the field fence for fun!)

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.444010257977.229644.673237977&type=3&l=9655c92ce2

You need to scroll down to near the bottom of the album to find her as this one is mixed with some of the others.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.35569552977.43359.673237977&type=3&l=d67711ecf8

 

[eventrider23]

Commander was set to be standing at Pencarder Sport Horses with Roy Haggerty who has Ramexico so I would contact them for more info.

 

[mellissa]

Sorry I didn't see the eventing bit. So can't help in that department!

Good luck

 

[maestro]

To try to get the height then I would go for Chilli Morning if he is in use this year, as he is blood enough for eventing. I still would be not worrying about the colour, that would be a bonus as most coloured stallions would still rely on the mares being blood enough to come out and do the job.

 

[Oscar]

My friend has used and really likes Stanhopes Diddicoy, he has a lot of Trak and TB blood in his pedigree so should refine your mare.

 

[Wagtail]

From the first photograph I would say that she is just right in length through her back. I agree her shoulder is a little bit upright. She is also a little bit straight through her hocks and so I would be looking for a stallion with a nice sloping shoulder and good length to the hocks. Apart froom that, she is beautiful. Lovely neck and good forelegs. I would be looking for a good athletic stallion, probably a TB.

 

[Wainwrights_Fells]

Hi Becca, your mare looks a really nice type. I recommend you look at the following stallions:- Rubicell http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://youtu.be/PdCYrFSUmMI&h=CAQFcXzBW

:- Grafenstolz http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://youtu.be/ZqGrSP9CzCQ&h=FAQG3q9nA

Royaldik http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://youtu.be/5zmed2Rkmpk&h=xAQGuzteQ

The rider in the last video is the fabulous Ingrid Klimke!

I can see you are in Leics - if i were you i would contact Preci-Spark Event horses and ask if you can go and see some of their youngstock by the stallions i mentioned. Here is their address :- http://www.precihorses.com/

 

[becca1305]

Lgd. thankyou . he is a smart lad, I think though I am going to focus on proven sires and that possibly he is a little solid for my mare. If Im going to take a risk on solidity it would be with airborn as I adore him. Thankyou for suggesting him though, fingers crossed for foalie.

eventrider23 - thankyou for the info on commander . I like him but Im not entirely sure what he would add to improve on my mare, though Im certainly no expert which is the problem! . However I do like the look of Ustinov Van Elsenham who they are standing ( out of uta van erpekom) he's out eventing . So I may contact them for some more info/pics on him.

Looking at pedigree, Uta seems to have more blood than Ustinov but Ustinov is the eventer and looks finer to me. Would ustinov be potentially suitable or not because of the lack of blood?
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10758914
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10416117
http://www.pencardersporthorses.co.uk/?p=109
http://www.pencardersporthorses.co.uk/?p=113


maestro - thankyou Ive looked but am struggling to find chilli morning AI anywhere atm, presume due to the change of rider etc but will keep searching . Do you think he would be enough blood with my mare? she is 3/4 TB doesn't really look it!

HoresyLad - thanks , I have to admit though I have heard some not so favourable reviews about him but will research some more.

Wagtail -thankyou, thats really helpful . Its so difficult to select as my eye keeps getting drawn to some of the finer more athletic WBs but worried that as my mare doesn't particularly show her 3/4 TB breeding that offspring may end up too solid with not enough gallop, so then perhaps I'd be better off then going for a pure TB.

Wanwrights - Thankyou . Grafenstolz and Royaldik are actually one of the ones I have written down now so good to know Im not completely off . I looked at rubicell but he is an oldenburg and the stallion company do advise to use him on TB mares to get an eventer, and I dont think my girl is fine enough! However I am interested in one of his progeny . Thankyou for that link to preci horses, really useful


Ive written down anything that I thought might suit : So far on my (very long) shortlist I have -

WBs :
Airborn (Phanten) - http://www.shovernstud.co.uk/airborn.html
Rubicolor (Rubicell) - http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10550187 (also unsure if still breeding from him)
Ustinov Van Elsenham (Utah van Erakom) - http://www.pencardersporthorses.co.uk/?p=109

Would any of these be possibilities? or should I just reject them and focus on horses with plenty of TB/ Trakehner in bloodlines?


Part TBs:
Glenhill Gold - http://www.theipsa.com/GlenhillGold.htm
All that Jazz AA - http://www.biddesdenstud.co.uk/26321.html
Welton Ambassador 7/8 TB - http://www.weltonhorses.co.uk/index.php/welton-ambassador.html
Grafenstolz TRK - http://www.******************.com/stallion_detail.php?stallion=2007025
Primmores Pioneer - http://www.teambleekman.co.uk/whorridge_stud_primmores_pioneer.html (essentially pure TB)
Sir Suave - http://www.stallionai.co.uk/stallions/sir-sauve/ up and coming eventing. (15/16th TB, so pretty much pure).
Hej Kuba? AA x partbred arab x TRK - http://europeaneventing.co.uk/index.php/stallions/hej-kuba
Opposition supremacy part TRK - http://www.landfordcommonstud.com/opposition-supremacy.html
Opposition Heracles part TRK - http://www.landfordcommonstud.com/opposition-heracles.html
Coded Country Gent 7/8 TB - http://www.countryfarmstud.co.uk/viewstallions.php?horse=Coded Country Gent (homozygous) - I like the look of this chap, but no recent pics of him jumping and not sure if he would improve on my mare?
Royaldik 1/2 TB - http://www.******************.com/stallion_detail.php?stallion=2007031


TBs:
One More Tiger ? - http://www.greatbrockhamhurststud.co.uk/onemoretiger.htm I can't find any pics of him jumping etc but have heard great reviews about him as a sire for eveners.
Hand in Glove - http://www.precihorses.com/horses/hand-in-glove.html (thankyou for the link Wainwrights )
Primitive Proposal - http://www.louellastud.co.uk/stallions/primitive-proposal
Mayhill (frozen) - http://www.teambleekman.co.uk/whorridge_stud_mayhill.html
Powerblade - http://www.harthillstud.com/power-blade.html - SJed to 1.3m
Stormhill Miller - http://www.harthillstud.com/stormhill-millerhorse.html


Wow long list ! Any recommendations for any of those, or advice not to use based on stallion/ progeny/ suitability for my mare appreciated and any more stallion recommendations also . thank you everyone.

 

[foxy1]

I love Power Blade!!

One More Tiger failed two gradings......

 

[eventrider23]

Based on your list here is what I would say of them -

Airborn (Phanten) - Nice horse but just don't think you will get enough blood from this mix
Rubicolor (Rubicell) - LOVE this boy and his foals have been superb but he is for sale and don't think standing at public stud now.
Ustinov Van Elsenham (Utah van Erakom) - Lovely boy - unproven as yet but of these 3 he would be my choice

Part TBs:
Glenhill Gold - Super horse and very underused. Successful at 3 star eventing and was accepted at Badminton 4 star but injury forced retirement but definitely one of the top end competition stallions and great temp to boot.
All that Jazz AA - Don't know if really standing at stud although frozen available. Question would be on his soundness as know he had long breaks from competition due to injuries, etc.
Welton Ambassador 7/8 TB - Is he still at stud?
Primmores Pioneer - Super eventing pedigree however he didn't do the job himself and not had anything stock wise that really impresses yet. ?? on temperament too as believe sharp.
Sir Suave - Super young horse and out there doing the job in competition now
Hej Kuba? AA x partbred arab x TRK - Not done much competition wise but produced by an amateur so clearly nice tempered. Foals doing well in Futurities,
Opposition supremacy part TRK - Super pedigree and being produced by the best event rider in the world so if he doesn't succeed there will be a reason but not proven as yet.
Opposition Heracles part TRK - Did well in young horse classes and progeny just starting to come out
Coded Country Gent 7/8 TB - Don't think this boy is competing yet and so nothing proven in progeny or comp.


TBs:
One More Tiger ? - Might have failed gradings but so have other successful stallions. Progeny seem absolutely lovely and doing well now under saddle eventing and showing. Super pedigree!
Hand in Glove - Don't think any semen available anymore
Primitive Proposal - Progeny getting out and doing the job!
Mayhill (frozen) - can't remember how good his frozen is.
Powerblade - SUPER horse and great assett to UK breeding now he has come back to the UK!!
Stormhill Miller - Another superb sire and sire of 4 star eventer.

 

[only_me]

Glen hill gold is really, really nice!
I am sightly biased as I have a horse by him (bought from the people that own GHG) and is just the nicest horse to work with!
Don't forget GHG is a 3* winner and plenty of good results in his career, but completely rideable and I really can't stress how good his attitude is His progency is starting to compete now and of all the ones I have seen are really nice

 

[lindajones]

Have a look at the young stallion " Jivetime Lochinvar " owned by Debby McDowell . I dont think that you would be disappointed .

 

[becca1305]

thank you everyone, particularly eventrider23 that is super helpful, a few stallions to cross of my list there. You are correct with weston ambassador, he passed away. I assumed that they still had frozen since stud card was still on website but just seen its for 09 . Glenhill gold and sir suave were my favourites out of the part TB list will be very interesting to see what sir suave does this season. Powerblade was also one of my favourites out of the TB list as hes clearly got the jump and lightness on his feet to have jumped 1.30ms.

Lindajones - thankyou will have a look . ETA he is absolutely gorgeous but just too small for me unfortunately at 15.2hh.

 

[becca1305]

also does anyone happen to know anything about glen hill golds temperament/ease of ride? or offspring? theres a couple of pics on his fb page of him rearing right up, one where he has struck (possibly not entirely purposely) the man leading him. I know every horse can have its moments but just wanted to get a feel for him as temperament and trainability are very much key points for me .

 

[vroutledge]

I only glanced at your thread but i think this stallion is stunning and his foals too.........http://www.longacresstud.co.uk/gpage4.html