Stallion Temperament?

[catts]

Right. I thought I'd chosen my stallion for use this year, but have heard of some offspring who may be a bit sharp.

My mare is By Espiritu (Master Spiritus) out of a Sunley Builds mare. She is 3/4 TB and 1/4 ID. She is sharp herself. She competed in eventing to Intermediate level with me (an amateur).

My aim (if this is possible with breeding horses) is to produce a nice trainable horse to go eventing with (not round Badminton, but Novice or Intermediate).

I think I need to use a TB (or as close as possible to it) as my mare errs on the side of the ID in stamp. I would like to use classic event lines if possible, e.g. Welton, Ben Faerie, Primitive Rising, Hoarwithy, Criminal Law, even back to the Spiritus line etc. but I have heard lots of different things about offspring.

Does anyone on here know what goes well on the Spiritus line while retaining sanity?

So far my short-list has consisted of:
Primitive Proposal (have heard of sharpness)
Primitive Academy (no offspring yet, unknown quantity)
Tinsley Faerie Legend (have heard of sharpness)
Jigilo
Devils Jump (have heard of sharpness)
Shining Spirit (a lovely old boy who I met in the field and who didn't bat an eye at my 2 & 4 year old children patting him on the nose!)
Up with the Lark
Weston Justice
Future Illusion

Looking forward to hearing those opinions

 

[eventrider23]

OK - here are my thoughts on that list:

Primitive Proposal - himself INCREDIBLY sharp and retired from competition as to sharp. I have experience working with his maternal sisters one of who i helped break in. This one ended up unridable, both sisters retired from ridden work, the same as him, by 8 yrs old. THAT SAID....he himself is producing some VERY nice event foals, none of whom seem to be sharp and are quality event foals. Personally though I would not chance putting him to a sharp mare.

Primitive Academy - only his first season at stud and as such what he throw remains to be seen. I love the look of him and on pedigree alone he should eb a top class event sire.

Tinsley Faerie Legend - nice looking horse - not yet really proven as a sire himself but you would have the Master Spiritus lines there. I believe he himself is a sweetie but the lines are known to be sharp.

Jigilo - I adore the look of this horse and he should be set for good things, however he himself is rather hot tempered.

Devil's Jump - VERY VERY VERY sharp!!! Having met him in person I would not use him if I was paid to, regardless of his talent, type, etc. I felt very sorry for his poor handler on the last time i saw him....poor guy was nearly decpitated. I would personally prefer to use his maternal half brother who is none other that Kings Composer...very very well regarded as an event sire.

Up with the Lark - Lovely young horse with a lovely temperament. I love the look of him but do not know anything of his progeny thus far.

Weston Justice - Probably the most proven eventing stallion in the UK in terms of his own performance. As careers go, this guy's one has been awesome and I don't think event breeders could ask for more. What is more he has a lovely temperament and I believe the same can be said for his stock.

Future Illusion - I fully intend to use this boy sometime very soon!! I adore the look of him and his attitude, progeny, etc. I am very much looking forward to seeing him come out under saddle. I believe he is proving to be incredibly trainable, perfecting lateral movements and flying changes already! His bloodline CAN be sharp as his dam sire The Outlaw was very sharp and gelded as a result...however this doesn't seem to have been thrown as his dam, himself, hos siblings and his foals all have lovely temps.

Of that list, my personal choices would be Weston Justice or Future Illusion or substitute Kings Composer for Devils Jump.

There is also the stallion One More Tiger who is the only stallion son of Java Tiger. He is a lovely horse himself and producing excellent stock now. There is also the stallion Chilli Morning who is almost pure TB.

 

[Thefuture]

You certainly ought to go and meet Kings Composer - a total gentleman in the stable and I am sure he will love to meet your children. Another plus for this stallion is the excellent fertility results he gets as well as the athletic progeny. I was at the stud last month and he was a pleasure to meet.

I have seen some of the progeny competing and they have excellent ability over a fence. There is a coloured grade A horse by him which has been in the H&H a couple of times winning as well as eventers.

 

[catts]

Thanks event rider. It's really useful to get your input. I thought the same as you. I heard that PP was sharp and DJ. That's the biggest issue with my mare, I really need to try to avoid that sharpness coming through - fine for pros, but now I'm a mum and still an amateur I'd like to secure my mare's bloodlines without that kamikaze element!! Plus of course the offspring will be taking my kids to pony club in 10 years time

 

[seabiscuit]

To add to eventriders post- Up with the Lark himself is absolutely lovely, but his dam was a very tricky/difficult one.

As for Future Illusion, his sire F.O has obviously produced a great number of cracking horses, BUT they all ( I mean all

) seem to be sharp, and have what is known as the F.O attitude!!

What about Jumbo himself? as he has the most wonderfull temperment, very good with tiny children, etc.

 

[eventrider23]

Jumbo is only going to very very few mares this season......

Thanks for adding that O_B- Iwas going to put that about FO but ran out of time as had to go teach a leacture.

Also...have you considered a non-TB???? We used the young SJ stallion El Thuder who is owned by Brendon Stud last year and both foals have come out as quality blood types. One was put to an Oldenburg/ISH mare and the resulting foal is an out and out eventer! He was awarded a 1st Premium in the BEF futurity last summer in the eventing section and is very blood but with the most awesome temperament in the world. The sire, El Thuder is by the Holstein stallion Thunder Van de Zuuthoeve, who is in turn by the great Argentinus and out of a Ladykiller (TB) mare. El Thuder's dam is also out of a Ladykiller lines mare and so he is effectively over 50% TB and he himself is one of the sweetest stallions I have ever met (having been in his stable for a cuddle when he was having nap times on several occasions!). Might be worth a think as his jump is just outstanding and he could easily event himself!

 

[eventrider23]

No worries Julia - I meant every word of it and as soon as I can I do fully intend to use him!!!!!

 

[shirleyno2]

ER, Thanx from me too ! And if anyone wants to meet El Thuder or the others please pm me for details of open day on 11th April.

 

[silverbreeze]

I am looking to breed from Primitive Star who has the same sire as Primitive Proposal. My mare is RID and has always bred very very laid back offspring but has always been put to full RID stallions in the past. I am looking for a little bit of blood for my next youngster but the last thing I want is something super sharp. Has anyone any experience with Primitive Star's offspring or even him?
I have got to go and see him yet and enquire to see if he covers full Irish mares as he is being targeted at the TB market I see. (i might be talking nonsense but I know some stallion oweners like to breed with specific stock)

 

[Bossanova]

Devil's Jump is by Abergwiffy who has thrown numerous 'quirky' offspring. I've ridden 1 DJ offspring and she was very tricky.

Shining Spirit- I have only ridden 1 of his offspring and she is pretty talentd but VERY opinionated and a bit of a cowbag when younger.

Weston Justice- Have a daughter of his, out of a Fleetwater Opposition mare and she's a bit of a worrier but so was her dam. She's mega sweet though, adores people.

Future Illusion- I've ridden countless horses by Fleetwater Opposition and am currently eventing 2 mares by FO. They are all similar in their traits and have a lot to say for themselves but are generally really, really sweet horses to handle and great under saddle if theyre on your side. When they get cross, they will throw their toys out of the pram. They are all natural born rearers.

 

[2Conker]

If your mare has a large does of TB, and it's temperament and trainability you're looking for, then a stallion such as Ganton Rufus (Welsh Part-Bred) would be ideal. He's in Devon with Valery Graham. He's had consistent success with a wide variety of mares.
He's on the Sport Horse UK register. He has a young 3 parts brother in Suffolk too Ganton Mentor, at Heritage Coast stud, (they have a website, showing his foals).
A very under-rated cross, with a natural jump, good paces and toughness. A sport horse for the challenges of the future.

 

[sw123]

I used to work with Primitive Proposal when he was eventing and woudlnt say he was overly sharp??

 

[cruiseline]

What about Handsome Stranger

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/sirepages.htm?id=10406611

I used him on a WB mare by Calvados, because I wanted to refine the mare and produce a showjumper. Well he has done that and more, he has given me a lovely refined filly, with a superb temperament, that can jump and really cover the ground too.

I sent her to the Futurity Evaluations last year as a yearling in both the showjumping and eventing sections. She received 1st Premiums in both, but a slightly higher one for eventing, which I would fully agree with.

Here she is at 22 months, what do you think.

 

[kazg07]

She is beautiful. My mare is in foal to him but not due until July. Havent seen that many of his offspring but yours is lovely. Hope i get something even half as nice from my mare !!

 

[S_N]

Well I have to vote for Kings Composer! I am more than pleased with my 3yo by him and have met King a few times in the flesh and he is just lovely! Breeding my mare to King is a mating I would be sorely tempted to repeat, as my 3yo is just lovely!! He has a wonderful temperament and is proving to be a very quick learner and is as bold as you'd like - very little phases him. He is also a county show winner and as a yearling was the BEF Top Eventing yearling at his venue, making him the 3rd highest scoring in the country. This is him:
4months old

Yearling

2yo

3yo

 

[annacheney]

Hello....I know you have had a lot of responses but I have some bits a pieces to say about some of the stallions....

I have a mare by Primitive rising...full TB.....tricky on the flat...mareish...but a real trier!

I have Up With the Lark's brother (same mare) he is lovely....very careful SJ (by No Complaints) and three lovely paces. I know Up With the Lark well - he's a sweer natured horse with talent and a lovely temperment!

I have a three year old by Primitive proposal out of a coloured mare...he is dosile and easy going....yet to break him or anything but sweet natured and good mover!

I have a 4year old mae by Up With the Lark.....really intelligent....sweet natured and super mover!

Hope this helps x

 

[annacheney]

can I ask how you know of magical lark? I have son of hers....and would be interested to know anything about her? kind regards Anna x