Stallion thoughts - Breeding from an advanced event mare

[Sarah_Jane]

Whilst I realise it may be ideally on the late side this year we have come to the decision to retire my event mare who has 92 points and jumped clear at advanced with an amateur.

She is KWPN by Kingston with Emilion on the damn side. Her damn has recently been graded as an elite damn in Holland due to the performance of her off spring (mainly show jumpers)

This is the mare http://www.shoestringeventing.co.uk/sarnita.html

She is 14 and this will be her first foal, with this in mind and not knowing if she will get in foal easily I don't want to spend megabucks, £500 ish on stallion fees, would probably need to be AI as we are in Cornwall.

I did have my eye on a local stallion but they share the same grand father I presume this is too close? Any suggestions on a stallion? I would like a competition horse, eventer ideally but wouldn't complain re a SJer. She is a small mare 16hh clever and quick but lacks a bit of stride and gallop. Temperment is very important to me as want to be able to ride the offspring myself!

 

[eventrider23]

A boy I really rate at the moment is the TB eventing stallions Sula Blue. Been produced by his amateur owner till recently and now with a pro he has so far this season won a 1 star combined training as well as his last intermediate run and then last week was 3rd in his first AI. His record is pretty consistent and I think he is starting to catch people's attention now. As for gallop....god can he! Being TB he shifts and having seen vids of him XC he is awesome.

Another I would suggest is the Trakehner Craig. He's only just starting out but he would add the height to your mare as well as stride....he has an awesome length of stride and galloping is not an issue. He has to prove himself in competition as yet but his pedigree couldn't be any better and his first foals I have seen have been impressive. He had a foal recently out of a pretty ordinary KWPN mare and it is a special foal indeed.

Also, if you are in Cornwall, what about Kings Composer?? He would also certainly add the TB blood she is lacking....

 

[Sarah_Jane]

Thanks will look them up, in Cornwall and although I know he has produced some lovely stuff he is not for us.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Shining Spirit is in Cornwall, British bred TB with old fashioned National Hunt bloodlines. Our mare was looked after very well and we are very pleased with the foal, pictured below at 4 weeks of age.

The stallion has had all types of mare and progeny include top level event horses.

 

[DonkeyClub]

Sad news, she was such a great horse.

As her motherline is so good it may well be worth looking for an elite showjumping sire to use as the progeny would be very commercial,( if you wanted to sell) and no doubt the progeny would then be an excellent SJ, but if you used another warmblood SJ then that may well not event beyond Novice- especially with Sarnie being a very carefull horse. Breeding to a horse with the same sire would be too close.. Kannan could be a good choice but is expensive. Or you could talk to some of the dutch breeders and ask advice, as they would know what bloodlines have been proven to work well with Sarnie's lines. There will be thousands of others with similar bloodlines so it would be interesting to see what they have been crossed with.

Otherwise have a look at Take it 2 the limit- £500 ish stud fee, advanced eventer and never had an XC fault and genetically very prepotent as most of his stock have made it to the young horse eventing championships and he's only had a tiny pool of stock on the ground. the oldest are 7 years old now I think and their owners say that they think they will go 4 star.
His motherline is super, all his maternal brothers/sisters were international eventers and SJ'ers. He is 7/8 Tb and 1/8 Selle Francias and his sire Gaub has had a lot of 4 star event horses. So you cant get more 'black type' event breeding than him.
He does have a fantastic temperament and passes it all onto his stock. His stock tend to look like their mothers but he will pass on his athleticsm and temperament and toughness. My TI2TL mare is out of a Button Bright X The Ditton- both TB stallions famous for being very bad tempered and difficult! But she is a total sweetheart. She was difficult and sharp last year when she was in a lot of pain but now she's sorted out and painfree, she is just the sweetest, easiest old granny ever with loads of ability!

Whatever stallion you go for, make sure it has a good motherline!

 

[foxy1]

Sula Blue is awesome and would certainly add gallop!

 

[gadetra]

Isn't Jaguar Mail in the UK for a while at the minute or soon? Top class eventing lines, with a bit of SF thrown in, would keep the foal commercial if you had to sell. I would be aiming for a good strong TB or something almost pure TB if you want gallop and stride. I'm not too up on TB's in England, there is Powerblade and Stormhill Miller, Jaguar Mail and Miller are proven, Miller has a 4* winner amongst his progeny.
Can you AI? Would open out your options a little, or travel teh mare to a repro centre to open out your options?
Also late foals are not commercial, they are a long term investment, a bit behind looking till 4/5 yo old.
Good luck with her, she is a fabulous mare.

 

[DonkeyClub]

I think the Jaguar Mail stock look pretty ropey, never seen a partiicularly talented or fantastic looking one by him.

Another stallion to consider would be Jackaroo, by Master Imp and a full brother to High Kingdom and Mandiba

 

[gadetra]

Jackaroo is in Ireland though, could be logistically difficult to get semen from Ballyquirke to Cornwall!
He is a stunningly bred stallion alright but he doesn't wow me in the looks department. But I suppose you don't ride a pretty head!

 

[martlin]

If you like the idea of Kannan, how about Danny Kannan? I'm very tempted myself, but then again, I'm after a SJer.

 

[Lgd]

If you want to keep the height similar and good temperament Groomsbridge May I - it is his last season at stud and they are offering him at a reduced fee. Stud are very good to deal with.

 

[ihatework]

Do you know what my first thought was? Why go cheap on such a good mare?! The foal will cost the same to bring up and train so IMO you should be looking to maximise what comes out in the first place.

I appreciate you are now a little late in the year to be planning this, so if the right stallion doesn't come along soon then I'd personally wait until next year. Also the AI and vets costs will be the same, irresepective of stud fee so maybe if you are going to try this year look for a stallion with good T&C's.

If stud fee is really a primary concern then Sula Blue is a good suggestion for blood and height - he is performing well and although not really proven as a sire may be worth a gamble. If height isn't of so much importance what about Britannia's Mail? Outstanding bloodlines and on your budget plus they are using Beaufort which is your quadrant of the country!

 

[etaylor]

A second recommendation for Danny Kannan - I have a filly this year by him out of a Cassini I line mare and couldn't be more please. Danny is on the World Equine Pathway scheme and is winning consistently at Newcomers level as a 5 year old. His Dam Kormeline is by Burgraaf and has produced 2 licensed stallions as well as the 8 year old Dinky Inky who has won at intermediate level with Gemma Tattersall and the 7 year old Boston JRP who is being placed consistently at Novice with Paul Tapner so a fantastic Dam line.

Would do either the SJ or eventing job and his foals ( the ones I have met) have great temperaments.

 

[maestro]

With an advanced mare I would not consider using anything other a proven event stallion, she has proved her worth so so should the stallion. The BE are showing month by month the top stallions have a look at the list and it is not by chance that the top 4 are also Advanced Event stallions themselves its just shortening the odds

 

[dunkley]

I don't pretend to know much at all about breeding, but I know Ramexico is very near to you, and a friend of mine was considering him a couple of years ago for her mare. Knowing how fussy she was, he had to be nice for her to even consider him

 

[Sarah_Jane]

Thanks everyone, think we have made a decision to hold fire until next year, to take the rush out the process prepare, research and save! We also then won't have a horse that is always playing catch up because it was born later than most. Expect me to be popping back in here with questions over the coming year and hopefully in 2 years posting foal pics.

 

[foxy1]

Weston Justice is another one, his offspring seem to be delivering the goods.

 

[crabbymare]

Thanks everyone, think we have made a decision to hold fire until next year, to take the rush out the process prepare, research and save! We also then won't have a horse that is always playing catch up because it was born later than most. Expect me to be popping back in here with questions over the coming year and hopefully in 2 years posting foal pics.

Sensible decision and with her record saving for the best stallion you can find is far better than finding one that has to fit your budget

 

[Beth889]

I put my 13 year old maiden mare in foal. I didnt have a great knowledge about breeding. I spent ages choosing a stallion and asked around in the horse world. I choose AI as it worked out cheaper than natural. I used My Eclipse by Shabb and he is only in Hayle and his stud fee is £400. Mel was great and really helpful. I have a really great foal, really good tempered and has really good confirmation plus really straight movement. Hope that helps.