Standing Martingales/use of whip in Showjumping..

Hels_Bells

Hels_Bells

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I was wondering if anyone knew how often standing martingales are used in show jumping?? I gather from other posts on HHO that they're used quite often and you can get elasticated ones for jumping.

I'm just a bit perplexed as there was a guy at my local county show yesterday jumping the 1.30m using a standing. I don't know a lot about them except that my boy came with one to stop him rearing up (which was almost immediately fixed when we realised he was in agony from an ill fitting saddle) but I figured that it must be restricting his horse from being able to stretch out while jumping?

The rider was also fairly liberal with use of the whip (to the point where there were a lot of gasps from the audience) and in the end his horse just slowly came to a stop in front of a big oxer at which point he really laid into it and I was too frustrated to watch any more and left.

I really don't want to criticise when I know nothing about the horse, the situation, the history and I'm not a showjumper at that level, but I can't help but feel I was watching someone who was being unnecessarily brutal with their horse! I also don't want to sound like someone who is completely against giving their horse a smack when required because I'm not.

It's just been playing on my mind that what I saw wasn't fair to the horse and was wondering what other folks out there thought. I was tempted to go and speak to one of the stewards about it but OH convinced me not to.

Also does anyone know is there usually a limit to how many times you can use the whip in show jumping, like there is in racing??
 
I am guessing if this bloke was jumping 1.30m then it was a BSJA competition. The legality of using a whip is clearly set out in the members handbook, a book which details the rules of the BSJA and people who ride under these rules must abide by them otherwise they will be asked to go up to the judges box, explain their actions, and this could lead to disciplinary preceedings, in the form of a fine or a suspension. As far as I know when I used to compete under BSJA rules you were allowed to only hit a horse three times, whetehr this was at one fence or a maximum of three strikes around the whole jumping track I can't remember. I have witnessed first hand people abusing their horses at shows. My OH works and lives on a large equestrian centre in teh midlands and one day whilst he was stewarding (ie. writing numbers on board of competitiors and calling them in for their round) he saw a young woman hit a horse when it refused and got eliminated. He followed the young woman to the collecting ring and heard her ask anyone if she had a schooling whip as she had every intention of giving the horse a good hiding. My OH has also reprimanded a rider for hitting the horse around the face with a whip, totally unacceptable. I hate seeing horses beat up with a whip, sometimes the rider seems to use unacceptable force with the aim of hurting the horse as much as possible, and quite often this is because they are either frustrated with the way the horse has gone or embarrased by the way the horse has treated them. But this is never an excuse to beat a horse up. Totally disgusting. If the horse in your example jumping the 1.30m had a problem then the young man should go back to basics, get some lessons and get his horse jumping properly without having its head strapped down and beating his horse up in the process. I am not against smacking a horse with my hand or a whip when it is necessary, but I hate this whip, whip, whip mentality that some riders feel they have to exhibit when they lose their temper. It is discraceful and I am really suprised the BSJA judge didn't pull them up about it. How can a horse bascule over a fence when it is hampered by a standing martingale. Indeed a horse naturally lifts its head on the approach to a jump, it has to in order to lighten the forehand to enable the shoulders to lift and stretch the forelegs. Bizarre, I have never understood standing martingales and their use in jumping, maybe someone on here could enlighten us???
 
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How can a horse bascule over a fence when it is hampered by a standing martingale. Indeed a horse naturally lifts its head on the approach to a jump, it has to in order to lighten the forehand to enable the shoulders to lift and stretch the forelegs. Bizarre, I have never understood standing martingales and their use in jumping, maybe someone on here could enlighten us???

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Properly fitted it won't affect the bascule of a horse jumping correctly.
 
Oh, okay then, sorry bit ignorant about SM's. But why would you use a standing martingale rather than a running martingale? What is the difference in the action?
 
I think (never having used one) that a standing martingale stops the horse poking his nose out/up, and a running martingale stops the horse raising his head and neck

I thought SM weren't allowed in showjumping?
 
So glad that I am not the only one who thinks this is not acceptable Applecart!

Is there anyone out there who can tell us for sure if standing martingales are allowed in showjumping and what they exactly do?!! :@S
 
Yes in BSJA rules you can use a standing martingale

Mainly used when rider in danger of getting a bloody nosey from a horse that whacks the head up.

In some sense better than a running, as not always on the mouth and only works when the horse puts his head up.

Deemed as strange and unusal as have gone out of fashion.
 
mine jumps in a standing- properly fitted they do not restrict the horses jump. Mine cannot cope with additional pressure on his mouth from a running/market harbourgh etc yet is a bit of a star gazer. seem to be making a come back- fairly recent HH magazines have standings in the pics on the SJ pages.
 
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Oh, okay then, sorry bit ignorant about SM's. But why would you use a standing martingale rather than a running martingale? What is the difference in the action?

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Well it's very very commonly used here in Argentina, although it has to be said I've mostly seen them on kids' horses. The obvious reason for using one is that it doesn't act on the mouth. Antifaz used to be VERY sensitive in his mouth (he'd been abused, poor darling) and used to chuck his head around a lot. This meant he would basically jab himself in the mouth with the running martingale and was happier in the standing. HOWEVER, my riding and his schooling have both improved so he's back in a running martingale.
 
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So glad that I am not the only one who thinks this is not acceptable Applecart!

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Well, I think they ARE acceptable and actually a very handy bit of tack. They MUST be fitted correctly though.

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Is there anyone out there who can tell us for sure if standing martingales are allowed in showjumping and what they exactly do?!! :@S

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They are definitely allowed in Argentina, but not in Canada, so I've been told. Not much help, am I?
As mentioned earlier, they act on the nose and not the mouth so are good for horses who tend to throw their heads around and that are very fussy in the mouth- these would be jabbing themselves in the mouth if in a running martingale, unless it were very loose and therefore rubbish at stopping the rider getting smacked in the face. Antifaz was abused and is to this day very VERY sensitive in his mouth, so I used to jump him in a standing with no problems at all. Having conquered most of his 'issues' I now have him in a running martingale.
 
Okay....Just an opinion BUT if I was jumping 1.30 and needed a standing martingale to keep my horses head down before/after/ during the fence I would be back to trotting poles and cavelletti in an instant.

Seems like the man in question was throughly embarrassed and all his gadets and temper really didnt help him.....an hour with a horse sympathic instructor sound like money well spent (probably had a stubben or jaguar SM anyway;-0).

Again only IMO if your horse needs to be held down and buillied he can't be enjoying his job which means unless the rider is a sadist they can't be enjoying it either.

Whats the point...if the horse isnt happy, how will you get the best from him?

Go back and start again.
 
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LOL not literally.......I mean holding it down to control it mentally i.e. beating it into submission and closing off escape routes with tack!

Good riding and partnership with the horse is all its about. 50% each or it does not work horse has to want it to work too......and by the way I have a 17hh 6yo warmblood that came to me in a waterford and standing martingale for flat work with the advice to jump him in a running M and flash or german hackamore (he also came with one)...now jumping well in and out of the school in a loose ring lozange and a cavesson 5 months on so I practice what I preach.
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Don't want to get into an argument but SMs are a very useful bit of kit when used and fitted correctly and IMO are kinder than a RM as they have no direct action on the bit - I cannot ride my horse in a RM as she hates the fact that the weight alone acts on her mouth, let alone when I apply a rein aid, and I end up struggling to take up any sort of a contact as she simply evades and I loose the ability to send her forwards. In a SM however she is an angel as it only acts when she needs reminding that flinging her head and body around and nearly removing my teeth is unacceptable!

This is a prime example of why I use one:

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I have no problems jumping/schooling her in one and as you can see it is hardly restricting her in any way!:
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Don't want to get into an argument but SMs are a very useful bit of kit when used and fitted correctly and IMO are kinder than a RM as they have no direct action on the bit - I cannot ride my horse in a RM as she hates the fact that the weight alone acts on her mouth, let alone when I apply a rein aid, and I end up struggling to take up any sort of a contact as she simply evades and I loose the ability to send her forwards. In a SM however she is an angel as it only acts when she needs reminding that flinging her head and body around and nearly removing my teeth is unacceptable!

This is a prime example of why I use one:

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Oh that is an excellent picture!
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GIN! I do agree but you are not jumping 1m 30 nor are you beating your horse into submission! I was responding to the original post only!

Very nice picture, your mare looks like loads of fun...would love to see how the SM works over a large fence, any more pics but bigger fences please?
 
Will hopefully have some after the weekend - unfortunately we have been restricted to bareback since mid march until last week so have done limited jumping and obviously not been able to use any sort of martingale! However taking her to a party on Sat where we will have a SM (she is only 5 and finds going out a highly exciting experience where a full gymnastics display is a must!) and will probably be jumping much bigger then - not 1m30 though!

The point is, correctly fitted a SM should not act in any way on a horse that is jumping (basculing) correctly, whether it be over 30cm or 1.30cm - I would be far more concerned about how restricting the riders hands/bitting combo is....

ETA - found this one, not much bigger (jump is about 90/95cm but allowing for the clearance I rekon the actual height she has jumped is 1m/1.05m) but again you can see the SM (strap that is almost touching her knees - other bit of leather work is the reins twisted) is doing bugger all!

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Even when she wants to poke her nose out and go along like a giaffe the SM does not restrict at all - it is in no way strapping her head in or stopping her poking her nose out...
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Another demonstration for why I use a SM in a situation where I did not have one and nearly ended up with broken teeth/nose! (this was a sequence
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