standing martingales v market harborough

[_daisy_]

whats your thoughts on both of these?
just put Chantin in a standing martingale to see if it helps her with the head throwing but someone mentioned that i should put her in a market harborough?

Also how tight should the standing martingale be? checked up on it and ive fitted it to be as high as her withers (like the books say) but it seems a bit on the long side.
last thing i want to do is have it over tight and cause complications

 

[Tia]

I am not a standing martingale fan at all - they are ruthless.

Love market harboroughs though!! Soft and gentle action.

 

[flyingfeet]

A standing martingale won't help with head throwing, but will stop you getting a broken nose.

I always measured mine by making sure there was enough slack to follow the horses gullet in a relaxed position. That said used to crank them up a little for polo, but that was when I needed them most.

I am not really a fan of a market harborough as I prefer the De Gogue and generally like to put the ground work in on the lunge with a chambon.

 

[_daisy_]

Tia,
why do you think standing martingales are ruthless? is it just that they can be if used in the wrong hands, or fitted incorrectly?
what do you specifically love about the market harborough?

 

[_daisy_]

[ QUOTE ]
A standing martingale won't help with head throwing, but will stop you getting a broken nose.

[/ QUOTE ]

why not? personally i wouldve thought that if she is starting to get into the habit of head throwing once she realised she cant do it any longer it would make her stop?
theres nothing physically wrong with her, shes just protesting about working!

with regards to her ground work. SHe has been well scholled and is lunged in a pessoa, side reins, bungie rein or chambon. She doesnt thro her head when being lunged , only when ridden

 

[Weezy]

In my experience a head thrower will just get more determined against a standing martingale and I have never personally known one to STOP a horse head throwing, it just limits the height they go

 

[_daisy_]

cheers Weezy,
rode her in it for the first time last night (albeit a bit slack) she wasnt half as bad as she was on Tuesday night with it. No major nose breaking moments!
ill have to see how she goes and if necessary try her in a market harborough and see how they both work on with her.

 

[charlie76]

If I have to use a martingale I actually prefer a standing martingale to a running. a running martingale breaks the direct contact from hand, from the rein to the bit and therefore can affect the feel and conatct you have.
With regards to head tossing I would try the market harborough- put it on loose to start with as they sometimes don't like the restriction.
Also lunging in side reins might help.

 

[Tia]

Standings have shock-impact; that's what I don't like about them. There is no warning to the horse to ask it to stop, so when it does hit the end of the martingale it is like a "boom!"

I like MH's because it has an early warning system and allows the horse to think about what it is doing and give it gentle knowledge of what is to come should it continue.

 

[vicijp]

Personally would never use a standing martingale, IMO they are the worst thing ever invented. They dont really have a purpose where proper riding is concerned, and on a lot of horses are downright dangrous.
As for Market Harboroughs, no idea.

 

[KatB]

Running martingales should not have this effect if fitted properly. Saying that I still wont use one. IMO standing martingales are unnecessary, they are too sharp, and dont stop a prob, merely deal with it in a harsh manner

 

[miss_bird]

Have to say i am a market harborough fan my horses are very happy working in it and work brill whilst wearing it

 

[_daisy_]

thanks for that Tia - i understand now

 

[_daisy_]

thanks for this. Everyone seems to have different views on all types of artificial aids. My instructor told me to put her in a SM but a friend has told me to put in in a MH???? why cant anything be simple. This bloody horse has been sent to test me!!!!

BTW as mentioned before she doesnt throw her head when lunging so it makes no difference whether she is in side reins/pessoa etc she works lovely in anything, its just when shes been ridden.

 

[Nikiolola]

I would go with what your instructer says, I have found, almost without exception, instructers are a lot more reliable source of information than friends, no matter how helpful they ae trying to be!

If she only throwss her head when ridden, she might be in discomfort of some sort. Have you had her teeth, back and saddle checked recently? they are the most obvious ones.

 

[_daisy_]

yes she had her back checked at the beginning of the month, had her teeth checked a little while earlier, tack also checked. All absolutely fine. Were also going down the change of tack, bits,clothing etc. shes now got a wool sleeve on her head piece to see if this helps - she does seem to be a bit better. Changed her bit, made some difference but not much.

 

[Tia]

Depends on how experienced the trainer is......and how experienced the friends are!

I have met plenty guff trainers - you know the ones who are "well read" but haven't an ounce of experience or common sense.

 

[vicijp]

Are they the ones that break in horses wearing flash nosebands, and keep riding horses in side reins until they know they arent going to cart them?

 

[Tia]

Oh you've met them too!

 

[_daisy_]

well i would like to say my instructor know what she is doing. She has a few stallions and competes quite highly on them. Shes reg BHSAI and affiliated ODE Reg. Member of Trainers Database (Dressage Specialist).
I know that this can still make some people not 100% but she has worked wonders on Chantin.

 

[vicijp]

Theres one round here that long reins with blinkers on (the horse).

 

[rcm_73]

A horse that can bring its head right up & back usually has an over-developed muscle on the underneath rather than the top of the neck. I bought my mare as a quite ewe necked ex speed jumper ridden in a hackamore. I have ridden her in a market harborough for 12 months and everyone that used to know her says you wouldn't think it was the same horse. The good thing about the market harborough is that it enables the horse to work long and low and if correctly fitted should only come into action if the horse raises its head above the point of contact. Because of it's particular action you can also jump at home in a harborough if you so wish but would have to check re competitions. Like anything it's a matter of trial and error and what might work for one horse & rider may not suit another. I have had some good advice on bitting through these forums and have a Tom Thumb on order as it seemed a popular choice for my particular type of horse. I would also recommend work on the lunge. Standing martingales are not recommended if your horse is at all 'ewe necked' as the horse learns to lean on the strap and can further build the muscle underneath. I have done quite a bit of research on this type of problem over the last 12 months!! Also let it be said that other issues to consider are having the teeth floated and also consider the type of bit you are using and if it suits your horse's mouth conformation.

 

[Peanot]

My trainer is BE registered, and BHSI, he is brilliant, and he knows an awful lot. A bit old fashioned and showed me how to make a `lunging aid` for a fiver! but I still went and bought a John Whitaker (pessoa) for £70.

I just like the proper looking things.
On the other point, I didn`t think much to the MH but then my old instructor said that there was a better contact unlike the RM that would `break` the contact. I don`t like SM at all as there is no give with them. I ride with no martingale or anything as I like to give my horse complete freedom over a fence, but that is my opinion.

 

[so03]

You have received plenty of advise already but IMO i've found that the SM can encourage the horse to rear. Horses are into pressure animals and if they throw their head up and feel pressure (top part of the nose and the poll, from the noseband) it will encourage them to try and continue into the pressure ie rear.

Before I get shouted at, it doesn't make all horses rear and some seem very happy in their SM.

Personally I have worked for years to get my TB in a snaffle type bit with no martingale. She is now ridden in a myler comfort snaffle and cavesson noseband. She's very happy and i'm in total control.

If the horse is throwing it's head around, there must be a reason and this needs to be addressed, especially if the horse doesn't do it when being lunged.

 

[_daisy_]

cheers MM for this. Ive got one of my instructors coming out next friday to give me a lesson. Hopefully hell be able to give me some more ideas on how to progress from where we are now.
Ill see what his thoughts are on the MH compared to the SM.
Shell be due for her teeth doing in the next couple fo months so will speak to my dentist about what we could do to help her.
ive been riding her in a KK bit but feel that this could be a possible cause of the head throwing. She works really well and mouths nicely in it. Tried her in a flexi snaffle, she was steadier in her head but didnt work nicely at all. Im thinking that an rubber coated loose ring french link could be the answer??

 

[_daisy_]

ive never liked SM's however my instructior thinks she is learning a new way to evade working/working in a contact. She recommended the sooner we niopped in the bud the better

 

[_daisy_]

Sarah,
my horse is very controlled in all other matters apart from the head throwing in walk only. In trot/canter etc we have no movement apart from the normal you would expect. She has been backed in a snaffle and consistently worked in a snaffle ever since. I feel that there is no need to change her bit to a stronger one to stop the head throwing. THe only thing i would change about the bit is the material eg rubber, aurigan, copper etc.
If you have read previous posts about the problems im experiencing with Chantin, she has had her back, teeth, tack checked and has had a thorough check by the vet and nothing can be found. They are all coming to the thoughts that it is a youngster thing trying to find a new wasy to evade working/working in a outline.
She works well on the lunge and this is why my instructors feel that this is an evation, not a physical problem. She works well from behind apart from the intermitent head throwing.

I understand what you are trying to say about the rearing however i think i wouldve found this out by now as i have always riden her in a martingale out hacking, just for an added bit of safety, and not once has she thought about going up. She isnt that type of horse - it exerts too much energy for her (not saying that she would never do this thought)

 

[rcm_73]

Finding the right bit can be a nightmare for some horses! My horse is a 'head thrower' and I'm still trying to work out the best bit for her but thanks to these forums I've had a few new ideas! The MH does work well for her though but I have had to introduce it gradually. She is also due for her teeth to be rasped again. Good luck with it all

 

[_daisy_]

thanks ever so much - its nice to find someone else with similar problems and going through the same schooling ideas. Let me know how you get on and ill let you know if i find anything of use.
Looks like i might be looking at buying a MH