Starting up a new yard - advice wanted please

jesterfaerie

jesterfaerie

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Hi everyone I would appreciate some advice on possibly starting up a livery yard, unfortunately this will be the first time I have done this and the owner of the yard is not horsey in the slightest and is very unsure how to go about setting it up. I will be taking any advice on and will be strongly considering every possibility including walking away from the situation if it sounds like 'blind leading the blind' that will not work out.
Basically this was only put forwards to me a few days ago and details haven't been discussed properly so I am hoping some of my worries and questions will be answered tomorrow.

I am due to visit the yard tomorrow for the first time but thought I would ask for some advice first, it may help to keep me grounded about the situation, give me more questions to ask about or suggestions and ideas to put forwards etc.

I basically am looking at possibly having the opportunity of taking on a small yard and developing it into anything I want to. The owner is not horsey and is wanting the site run as a business but not for personal profit, he has two children he is wanting to get into horses so he is wanting the business to be a place where they can be around horses, there is opportunity for them to have their own etc. Apparently the profit made from the site will be going back into the site/wages.

Although he runs a business he is unsure how best to go about paying the wages. The yard will start out with only my two horses there so free livery and bedding, the site is ready to move into so work prior to finding customers will be minimal. Understandably he is not wanting to give me a £300 p/w wage for me to only be there as long as it takes me to do my own horses, and for the business to not generate a profit at all.
So is looking into the pros and cons of paying by the hour or a set amount each week, he has also asked me to propose to him how much I am wanting to earn per week.
How much would you consider to be acceptable to suggest/accept?

Am I wrong in thinking that as he runs a business that if he is informed how to go about opening the site as a yard that the 'business' side (i.e. insurance, business budgets) would be covered and I would be left to deal with the general running and general paperwork? Such as livery contracts, vet bills etc. I am unsure if I would be hired as an employee or self-employed.

I was thinking that part or full livery would generate the most income rather than DIY as there would only be at most 4 stables available for outside liveries and possibly space for grass liveries. I will be the only member of staff hired and any maintenance/etc that needs to be carried out that I am unable to do myself someone will be brought in.

I did actually have a load more questions to ask but my brain seems to have gone into reverse mode, sorry. I am unfortunately expecting the majority of the replies to be telling me not to consider doing this.

Sorry this is all very new to me and don't have anyone to personally ask who has set up their own yard from scratch, I suppose we all have to start somewhere?
Any advice is greatly appreciated as I feel it could possibly be a good opportunity.
 
are you looking to rent this yard to run as your own business? or is the landowner looking to employ a yard manager? how much land in acres? how many stables? if only 4 after your 2 are in residence then on q business footing it will not be viable after paying for liability insurance.
 
The impression I get is that you would be employed as yard manager? As far as I'm aware, free livery for your horses would be a taxable benefit and would need to be declared (I've studied basic personal tax but shockingly our textbook did not cover equine related benefits in kind!) I can find out in work tomorrow though from our personal tax dept :D That's probably about the only useful bit of information I can give though!
 
Is that a further 4 liveries after both your own & owners childrens ponies? If so it's a totally different ball game as he can put your wages through maybe as a part time amount for looking after his childrens ponies with a seperate income from the remainder. It is never going to be more than break even though.
 
Thank you for the replies.
There is 6 stables, I would be filling at least 1 stable and there is only 13 acres, I am unsure if there is a possibility for expansion or not. I would be employed as a YM.
So really there is little possibility to make a profit from the yard?
 
I would imagine it all depends on the numbers. Can you call around livery yards in your area and find out what they charge for DIY, part and full livery? Then you can multiply by 4 and have an idea of the income that might be coming into the yard (assuming it is full all the time). You then need to know business rates, insurance and taxes (local council and your bank may be able to help with these numbers), set aside a sum for maintenance and depreciation and see what is left.

Unfortunately I think it will be difficult to generate a decent wage with 4 liveries. As a rule of thumb I think that livery that includes mucking out, turning out, etc but no riding, requires 8 paying liveries per member of staff. It may be that the best option for the landlord is to have 6 DIY liveries which mean minimal costs for him, but this would not give you a wage.

If you could attract 4 schooling liveries this might allow you a better income, but schooling liveries are hard to come by and have a high turnover as people send you problem horses and want to have them back a few weeks later.

Sorry to sound so negative! Best of luck!
 
Sorry, just one more thought: could you go for 6 DIY liveries (2 of which are your horses), all the income from this going directly to the landowner, but in addition you could be available for extra help for the other 4 liveries as and when they needed it? So you would have a set price list for turn out, bring in, mucking out, etc. If the landlord wanted to take up a stable for his own kids' pony then he could pay you like any of the other liveries to help him out. It wouldn't give you a full wage but it might pay for your livery bills.
 
Hmm, four stables, possibly five for liveries. Say you charged £90 a week for full livery, that's £450 a week tops. Take out your salary, public liability insurance, feed, maintenance and other expenses, no, you ain't going to make any money. Although with 13 acres you could take on grass liveries but I'm not sure what the going rate is for them, not much I should imagine.
 
Another thing to consider is whether you're a good enough rider [and I don't know you so I mean no offence] to have full liveries.

I would think that most people paying for full livery would only want their horses ridden by someone very experienced.

There is also the risk factor for yourself if you were exercising someone's horses and had an accident or fall - much more of a problem if you are the only staff member.

Also, is there a school? Jumps?

From what you've described I think it would be very difficult to make any money from this set up with only 4 liveries, particularly if there aren't good facilities.
 
The owner obviously is not wanting to pump money into the yard to loose it but he is just wanting to have the business up and running and break even, if it generates any profit then brilliant.

Booboos, the owner is wanting a yard manager to run the yard he is not wanting to take on DIY liveries without having someone to run the yard and obviously a wage would be needed. I don't think there is sufficient facilities for schooling liveries especially over the winter either :\ I would need to travel about half an hour to the yard so ideally I could do with a wage that would do more than just cover livery costs. Thank you for your post it has given me a lot to think about. Don't worry about being negative you are speaking a lot of sense that needs to be taken into consideration. :)

Slightly Foxed, no grass livery probably wouldn't generate more than £20 p/w.

xspiralx, no offence taken, as far as I am aware there is no school and I am unsure if one could be built. I have thought about the risk factor being the only member of staff therefore I was thinking if full livery without ridden exercise would be a viable option, I am guessing not but was trying to think about it logically.
 
QR
Helooo!
Dont want to be another one to put a downer on it all, if there were more stables with the possibility of building a school I think you could have had a good deal :(
For full or even part livery I would expect bedding and hay etc included in the price... I dont know how hay prices are where you are atm but we are forking out £5 for a small bale of hay up here, so that would be another huge slice to take out of any income.
Full liveries would be your best bet at making money, but many people who choose to use full livery will only use yards that have good facilities available.

As you would be the only staff member on the yard, would there be anyone else on site? From a safety point of view I would prefer to know there is someone around incase of a fall / kick/ complete emergency. The yard I am on now has a policy of 2 members of staff on the yard at all times.
 
I'm really sorry, but it will be extremely difficult to attract 4 full liveries without a school. And financially, it really isn't viable unless you take on grass liveries as well. 13 acres is more than enough to have a few grass liveries, so they could supplement the income.
 
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