steps to barefoot

[MiniMilton]

I tried barefoot many moons ago with zero success (wrong diet, wrong trim, zilch support) i'm hoping to try it again and I want to get it right this time. I've come looking for guidance!

I have just completed my track system. I haven't invested in different surfaces yet, I want to make sure the horses use it first (its only completed about half an hour! and the horses are currently standing looking at me quizzically)
Over the next few weeks i'll tweak the track to get it just right.

I have 2 lami prone. One is in light work, he is on speedi beet, top spec balancer light, and laminaze supplement, along with some salt and linseed oil. He gets some top spec top chop light (straw and alfalfa unmolassed) in a separate bucket with some extra alfalfa. I feed this instead of haylege, and I am unable to source hay of any use. He also gets a few carrots/apples as a treat.
The other is not in work, she is on a similar diet except she does not get the additional alfalfa, and she is on the topspec lami balancer rather than the light one. I have other horses too that I hope to include but the 2 lami's are my primary concern.

My horses have been stabled at night, out all day. They have been in nice trim condition all winter but suddenly have put on a tiny bit of weight in the last few days. I was hoping to eventually leave them out 24hrs. I assume I should wait until the grass is gone a bit more on my track. Am I foolish to consider leaving lami prone horses out 24 hrs?

Are there changes I should make to the diet?

What should I do next? One is fully shod, the other just has fronts. I dont intend on taking the shoes off until the end of the summer

eagerly awaiting some gems of info

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The alfalfa might be a problem. Some posters on here have mentioned that it makes their horses footy. Another poster mentioned Timothy chaff, which might be a good alternative?

 

[lizzi2]

If prone to laminitis, then 24hr turnout may not work to avoid a laminitic attack - although if you restrict to small area, maybe ok.

Could be worth you phoning one of the main feed companies helplines for advice on nutrition - have found them helpful myself in the past. Also your farrier maybe able to offer some help - a couple of my ponies are barefoot, and farrier has been helpful to keep them sound & fine.

 

[TwoStroke]

When you say you feed the top chop lite instead of hay/haylage... Do you mean the horse is in all night with no forage? How much of the chaff does he get?

 

[Alyth]

24 hour turnout would be great for your lami prone ponies - but you might need to restrict their feeding with grass muzzles.....or make the track narrower with turning areas?

 

[MiniMilton]

thank you for the replies

The alfalfa might be a problem

Thats interesting, what is in the alfalfa to cause this? The top chop lite is recommended for ponies recovering from a laminitic attack, and it contains a small amount of alfalfa

Could be worth you phoning one of the main feed companies helplines for advice on nutrition - have found them helpful myself in the past.

The sceptical part of me thinks they will tell me that whatever they are selling will be ideal for my pony, regardless if it is or not!

When you say you feed the top chop lite instead of hay/haylage... Do you mean the horse is in all night with no forage? How much of the chaff does he get?

I thought top chop lite was forage? It is suggested on the packet as being a haylege replacer. They only get about 1 kg, they dont love it and they spend hours picking at it. The only reason they get brought in at night is to reduce their grass intake, so I feel its pointless bringing them in and then giving them haylege instead

24 hour turnout would be great for your lami prone ponies - but you might need to restrict their feeding with grass muzzles.....or make the track narrower with turning areas?

Unfortunately well meaning hill walkers have cut the muzzles off in the past (from an external perspective I guess it looks cruel) and they are too expensive to keep replacing.
I think my track is a little wide. Now that they seem to be getting used to it (all that white tape was scary!) i'll gradually make it narrower. It is currently 12 ft wide but with a few sections 24ft wide to allow for rest areas and allow for very marshy or rocky areas.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Thats interesting, what is in the alfalfa to cause this? The top chop lite is recommended for ponies recovering from a laminitic attack, and it contains a small amount of alfalfa

It's been mentioned several times in relation to footyness and sometimes itching. It seems that some horses can eat bucket loads of the stuff and are perfectly happy, others can't tolerate it. Once the alfalfa is removed from the diet, the horse is no longer footy.

I just wanted you to be aware that it is a known problem with alfalfa. Your horses may be fine on it anyway.

 

[TwoStroke]

I thought top chop lite was forage? It is suggested on the packet as being a haylege replacer. They only get about 1 kg, they dont love it and they spend hours picking at it. The only reason they get brought in at night is to reduce their grass intake, so I feel its pointless bringing them in and then giving them haylege instead

If they spend a long time without forage regularly then they will get gastric ulcers. 1kg is really not much at all, and is probably all gone by midnight at the latest. Imo you would be much better to provide 24hr soaked hay in a trickle net. Once you have ulcers though they can be tricky to heal.

Horses have evolved to eat for 16-20 hours a day, and constantly produce stomach acid - with no fibre to process, the acid will build up and come into contact with the portion of the stomach which is unprotected by the mucus membrane.

The point of stabling is to reduce sugar intake, not fibre intake. Sugar is highest in grass in the late afternoon/early evening. It is advisable to stable for this period, but not to remove access to fibre. Soaking for an extended period will reduce the water soluble carbs in hay, making it suitable for laminitics.

 

[zandp]

A feed company I'd recommend to advise you would be Thunderbrook Equine - designed for healthy barefoot hooves.

I'd cut out the speedibeet and anything with alfalfa in.

Well done for setting the track up first. Are they moving on it yet ? Can you just give them access to part of the track, minimising grass intake ? I'd turn out on it overnight at first if you're worried as there are less sugars. If there's only a little grass on it, that coupled with the movement you should get, could be ok for your laminitic.

 

[MiniMilton]

I agree completely TwoStroke, my situation is far from ideal. Unfortunately I can't source hay at the moment that isn't full of spores. And I'm afraid to feed them Haylege

Zandp I only give enough speedi beet (2 cups soaked) to mix in the suppliment. Would that still be too much?

They are not moving as much as I had hoped, but it is a very hilly field and a few circuits would use up a lot of energy. I've 2 more fatties I'm going to add to the track. That should get the herd moving. I just need to make a few adjustments to the fence first so they don't go over/under it. They are a bit more naughty than the original ones!

And to narrow the track at the marshy areas I need to put in permanent fence posts. The temporary white ones just won't do. It's a bit of a work in progress...

 

[brucea]

Skip the TopSpec products - I've never known a sensitive horse do well on them.

Think forage based feed all the time - not alfalfa though.

Also use a good mineral supplement - like the one from Forage Plus (Sarah Braithwaite runs it and keeps a herd of barefoot competitive horses)

 

[zandp]

My trimmer is from the no beet at all route and my horses feet and behaviour definitely supports that but I know barefoot people who feed it and the feet stay healthy.

Thunderbrook Base Essentials is full of minerals, magnesium (3 forms), linseed, brewers yeast etc so is a great balancer. I've got one v good doer - ID/Conn, now 19 and one who's more "normal", QH/TB. Both thrive on it, I'd used Baileys Local previously but the improvement in their feet when we turned to this was quite impressive.

I'm jealous you have a track !!