Stifles and NPA

[SEL]

What comes first - dodgy hind hoof angles leading to stifle issues or vice versa???

Baby cob has always been weaker to the right and I've been pretty sure its stifle related. Two weeks ago he threw a few huge bucks in on a hack and I put it down to naughtiness because he wanted to canter but the ground was boggy. Popped on the next day to video his e-riders test and he was definitely NQR. Time off in the field but still NQR so it'll be the vet. There's a medial swing on that right hind and he's pushing me over to the left when I'm on him. Left canter has vanished.

The farrier and I have spoken about his hind feet before because I think they get a bit under-run. Farriers view is while he is growing (rising 5) to leave well alone and let his body sort itself out. My vets need to be managed because they have a tendency to throw the kitchen sink at investigations and before you know it both the bill and list of exclusions is huge. I'm debating whether to ask for hind x-rays or to just focus on the stifle for now and see what's going on in there.

If they are NPA would you correct or would you leave barefoot and focus on the body? It might be a moot point depending on what the stifle investigations show but interested in other views (whilst putting on my big pants before phoning the vets!)

 

[barefootbeginner]

Sorry to not be of more help, only thing I can contribute is when I had an NPA behind case also with a young horse, proactive trimming and management was required to rehab, leaving feet to run forward while a horse is growing would ring alarm bells for me. I’ve been through a few hoof care providers now and the ones who advocate for that sort of approach have always ended up letting bigger problems set in whereas those who manage more intensely every trim have given far better feet (backed up by X-rays) as well as the horses saying how much better they feel (and perform).

 

[Sprogladite01]

If he were mine I'd check for NPA first, simply because NPA can lead to so many other issues - i'd want to be treating the cause rather than the symptom. If no NPA, then off to investigate stifles, but if NPA are present I'd address that first. Good luck!

 

[SEL]

Sorry to not be of more help, only thing I can contribute is when I had an NPA behind case also with a young horse, proactive trimming and management was required to rehab, leaving feet to run forward while a horse is growing would ring alarm bells for me. I’ve been through a few hoof care providers now and the ones who advocate for that sort of approach have always ended up letting bigger problems set in whereas those who manage more intensely every trim have given far better feet (backed up by X-rays) as well as the horses saying how much better they feel (and perform).

Thanks - farrier isn't leaving them to run forward as such, but they do seem to get a bit like that between trims which would suggest he is wearing them that way. He's taking his toes back as much as they'll go but I guess if the angles are completely out then it'll be remedial shoeing.

If he were mine I'd check for NPA first, simply because NPA can lead to so many other issues - i'd want to be treating the cause rather than the symptom. If no NPA, then off to investigate stifles, but if NPA are present I'd address that first. Good luck!

Would you go down the remedial shoeing route? I have a different vet coming out to normal and he's bringing the x ray machine so if nothing shows up on the stifle ultrasound then we can look at hooves

 

[Sprogladite01]

Thanks - farrier isn't leaving them to run forward as such, but they do seem to get a bit like that between trims which would suggest he is wearing them that way. He's taking his toes back as much as they'll go but I guess if the angles are completely out then it'll be remedial shoeing.


Would you go down the remedial shoeing route? I have a different vet coming out to normal and he's bringing the x ray machine so if nothing shows up on the stifle ultrasound then we can look at hooves

I think I'd wait to see the x rays and decide from there - I wouldn't rush into remedial shoeing but I'm not against it either so would probably seek advice from others who are more in the know about barefoot husbandry than I am. How often is your boy being trimmed at the moment? His trim cycle may need shortening to get on top of it if NPAs are present. Both of mine are barefoot but I am certainly not an expert! I do follow a barefoot page on facebook (which is obviously both full of "experts" and a few actual pros) and have seen cases of NPA on there who have been sorted just with corrective trimming.

 

[Fieldlife]

It sort of depends on what’s causing the NPA?

Is it the body putting the horse there or the way horse is being trimmed?

Are any of other horses on farriers books NPA? Does farrier have an effective way for addressing NPA?

IME not that many people are skilled at building heel up when it is lacking in an NPA horse.

 

[sbloom]

I would get xrays of both and go from there, I think in most cases you'd probably tackle both and I would consider the kind of protocol offered here and there, either glue ons, or the composite shoes that support the whole of the back of the foot. I'd not wedge with ordinary shoes. I think it can be challenging to fix NPA quickly with barefoot, though overall I'd always prefer barefoot where possible.

 

[Fieldlife]

I would get xrays of both and go from there, I think in most cases you'd probably tackle both and I would consider the kind of protocol offered here and there, either glue ons, or the composite shoes that support the whole of the back of the foot. I'd not wedge with ordinary shoes. I think it can be challenging to fix NPA quickly with barefoot, though overall I'd always prefer barefoot where possible.

My horses feet are improving barefoot but it is slow. I’d estimate 2 degrees a year. After the first change of 4.5 degrees from just trim alone (minus 2.5 to plus 2)