Still having season problems... grrrrr...

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Gingernags

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Right - short version - mare went to stud and should have been in season, wasn't. teased every day for 3 weeks - nothing. This was while weather was crap and lots of people having problems...

She was jabbed on 26 June (I presume with prostaglandin) and came into season on 29 June. Covered twice.

Scanned twice (1st time slightly early so checked 3 days later) not in foal but significant ovarian activity and a large follicle, approx 25mm, looking like a good candidate. Vet thought she should have come into season at end of weekend.

By the dates, from when she was in season after the jab, she SHOULD have come back in season on Friday last week (20) so vets estimate about 2 days later say Sunday. Still absolutely NOTHING.

Is anyone else still having problems with mares seasons or is it just my awkward moose?

She's also moulting like mad but I can't decide whether she's thinking its time for winter coat or now getting a summer one - not much difference TBH!

I rode her fairly hard in the school last night at the stud, she was blowing a bit at the end, and I told her unless she plays ball she's getting that every other night until she puts out!!!!

Going to ring the vet today but any advice or words of comfort would be appreciated!
 
Yes, we have two mares out with the stallion, and their seasons are next to non-existant but at least they look happy and relaxed despite the weather. I am reliably informed next week is the start of summer and all our unco-operative mares will come into full season!
 
Because it's now late in the year, the weather has been strange, and we have passed the vernal equinox, most mares cycles have started going a bit strange - with unusual timing, diestrus ovulations and anovulatory follicles. Most fertile time for mares will generally be March-May - try and get her between these months next year.

An experienced vet will be able to spot an anovulatory follicle, and won't bother inseminating on a diestrus ovulation (as they're useless). Mention it to the vet - if they aren't aware of these phenomena - change your vet.
 
Gingermare, it has been a VERY frustrating year!! So far we have 6 out of 10 mares scanned in foal. Have another 4 being scanned next week.

Andypandy you are not now admitting that the weather has had anything to do with this years breeding season........
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It is ok to say to say that people need to breed mares between March - May, but if people have mares foaling in June and July (as is always the case), then unless you take your mare out of breeding for a year, then you cannot just jump forward several months.

The other thing we have found this year is a lot of mares are having silent heats. One of our mares who was at an insemination centre was showing nothing to the teaser stallion, but on daily scans she was in season and was showing a good sized follicle.

Good luck with whatever you try, as with Andypandy, you need to speak to your vet about it.
 
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Andypandy you are not now admitting that the weather has had anything to do with this years breeding season........
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I would say that the "weather" has only VERY recently had a part to play - only in cycles during the last few weeks. I think the combination of a drop in daylight , and the constant cold and wet weather (which seems more wintery) has caused many mares to start transitioning out a bit earlier than we might have hoped. I don't believe that irregular weather earlier in the year has caused country-wide changes in mares' cycles.

Otherwise, I still think problems before July have been down to management issues. Even the mare we had problems with is now in foal after careful management (AI'd 8th July), and she is a "difficult breeder" i.e. she has fertility issues. I only made this observation as we've seen a couple of mares who now have very strange clustered follicles or a lack of active follicles, which has happened in the last 2-3 weeks.

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Spoken to the vet...

I'm taking her for one more scan next week to see whats happening and he said from there he has a couple of options re: injections.

So, either she comes into season like we thought she should with this follicle just later and we cover her, or from the scan she gets "something" done and we cover her

OR

Failing those she comes home and we try next year. Which I really didn't want to do as she's already 15 and a maiden and I lose another year...

Having a later foal, as its a one off, doesn't worry me as long as its due no later than July.

So... in last chance saloon!
 
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we have passed the vernal equinox, most mares cycles have started going a bit strange - with unusual timing,

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The vernal equinox this year was 21st March.

Because of the extreme weather this year, it would appear that the mares think it's autumn and have stopped cycling accordingly. Perhaps the weather where you are has not been so poor - you mention problems prior to July being management issues. Down here we have been having cold wet weather (with, literally, only the odd day's respite - about 5 or 6) since the end of April/beginning of May. My mare foaled on 26th April and the stud was bringing her and her foal in every night for 4 weeks so the foals could have somewhere dry to lie down. By the end of May they were having serious problems with space so the older foals had to stay out to make room for the younger ones. It has been a total nightmare. Even in June when it is normally light until well after 10pm, I was having to put lights on at home by 8pm. Today is a typical October/November day with temperatures to match. The two May Bank holidays here were horrendous. I brought my mare in on the second one as she was shivering in the field. It's no wonder her seasons are up the creek.
 
Apologies for the error on my part - I meant that we have passed the summer solstice.

How regularly is the mare scanned at the stud, and what methods have they used to try to manipulate her seasons/ovulation?
 
We have half a dozen mares who have been all over the place with their seasons despite us jabbing them in and monitoring them very closely - I've heard a few theories - the most common being the weather...

The ones that aren't scanned in foal at the end of this cycle will not be covered now til next spring - I'll start early next year...
 
They do seem to be all over the place. Ours had been at stud with no sign of cycling, have since been jabbed to manipulate the seasons, but still having trouble taking, and have had one reabsorbed - its no wonder given the weather, they must think we are in midwinter!! We've not got long to keep trying now, but we will be starting as early as possible next year!
 
She didn't have a foal heat until 4 weeks after the birth - and we didn't miss it as they were monitoring her very closely as they knew I wanted to put her in foal again. They scanned her onher foal heat but no follicle. That was the end of May. We waited for her to come back into season herself but 4 weeks later, still nothing so she was injecyed. They scanned her after 4 days and she'd ovulated! They waited another 10 days and injected her again, this time she had, apparently, a persistent corpus luteum . . . so no go that time. She was injected 3 weeks ago and very slowly produced a ripe follicle, they were scanning her every day so we didn't miss the optimum time. She was AI'd two weeks ago today and will be scanned tomorrow. If she's not in foal I'm abandoning it for this year and she can come home and will go back to stud in March next year.
 
Scanning 4 days after a PG jab when trying to breed is asking for trouble, especially after no ovbvious ovulation for such a long time; mares could ovulate as early as 48 hours after PG. I'm pretty sure that persistent CL's are more common after extended periods without estrus, and are also linked to infections etc.
The most recent go sounds like it was better, but I'm afraid in the first instance, I must again point the finger at poor management.
 
My vet talked about other options for injecting if we scan her again, other than prostaglandin, depending on where she is in the cycle - any ideas what these are and what the effects are? I'd just like to know what the options are and what they will do.

Obviously prostaglandin no use if she ovulates too soon as she'd not be in season and would therefore not stand and AI is NOT an option. Its an in hand covering or nothing.
 
I think the very experienced stud she is at would argue the point with you, and I'm afraid, so do I. They do know what they are doing - I don't think Peter Charles would have sent Corrada there if he didn't think so too, not to mention several other "big names". If you maintain it is bad management, perhaps you could explain why this is a national problem. If it was down to bad management it is incredibly coincidental that an enormous number of mares are suffering from the same problem at the same time from one end of the country to the other.
 
It's a national problem because we, as a nation, are pretty poor at using breeding technology. I don't give two hoots about "big names" using a stud - that doesn't mean that the stud is the best in the country; it's probably a better indicator of marketing than it is of actual proficiency.

In the US, and in the rest of Europe - Repro centres are full of specialist stud vets and technicians, which is, for the mostpart not the case here. Colleagues of mine from the States, France, Holland and Germany are amazed by the lack of understanding and knowledge of most British studs and "experts".

Of course the stud would argue with me, it is the natural human response to criticism; but the fact that they would argue doesn't make them right, and doesn't mean that the mare has been properly managed.

The weather may have had an effect in the last couple of weeks, but it doesn't mean that the situation can't be remedied with intensive management. The fact of the matter is, that studs and most vets in the UK don't know how to deal with different or changing situations or mares and stallions that are even slightly abnormal in terms of their reproductive systems.
 
I would agree with the point at scanning 4 days after jabbing in - we always scan 2 days after.

Technology or not though, there does seem to have been a lot of foals being reabsorbed this year, and I'm sure thats good old mother nature getting confused!
 
It isn't just in the UK that vets are having problems getting mares in foal. I have just returned from Germany where we visited several breeders and all of those mares had got quite old foals at foot, yet had not been scanned in foal yet and they too are blaming the weather. Luckily our mare was covered at the beginning of April which is a bit early for ideal however with all the problems that were encountered later on I'm glad now.
 
AndyPandy, help me out! What are "anovulatory follicles"? I'm another one who is having real probs getting my mare in foal this year : she has a foal at foot, and had an infection after his birth which was treated with antibiotics and took some time to clear up. She was scanned about 8 days ago, and the vet said "Its all systems go! She's got a ripe follicle, and needs to be AI'd today or tomorrow morning". So she was AI'd the following morning (we are only about 2 miles down the road from the stud so she was done at home) and when scanned had still not ovulated, but had an enormous follicle. She didn't actually ovulate until about 56 hours later; the vet was hopeful that the AI would still "take", as apparently the stallion we used has very high fertility and the vet reckoned that 72 hours would be the limit of the semen likely to be still active.
Is the late ovulation and exceptionally large follicle anything to do with anovulatory follicles? We haven't had the 14 day scan yet, but I must say that with everyone elses problems, I'm not terribly hopeful for her being in foal ... What a lousy year for foals!!
 
Anovulatory follicles don't ovulate... so this one wasn't one of them. The size of the follicle is not the only important factor - the shape and hardness/softness of the follicle are very important; so what did he mean by ripe? How big was the follicle before and after you AI'd her? How was the tone of the uterus, the edema, and the status of the cervix? I assume the vet has scanned and found a corpus luteum now - and that they haven't just seen it disappear and assumed that it has ovulated? 72 hours is a little bit hopeful I'm afraid - I probably would have gone for a second AI'ing with oxytocin treatment inbetween. Sometimes mares will have follicles which get very big, and that's not unusual - even to see 55-65mm follicles.
 
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Thanks so much for this - All I can say is I wish that I'd got all this great info before the process started, and then I'd have known the questions to ask! Her follicle did grow to about 55 mm, but I don't know what assumptions the vet was making about ovulation, and I have to say that several days or so after she had supposedly ovulated she was showing strong interest in one of the geldings, which I thought she would not have done if the egg had been fertilised?? Its all a bit of a bummer this year!!
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hmmmm... well if she started showing interest a few days ago, then the follicle that you spotted before could have been a diestrus (out of heat) ovulation, which would have been totally useless anyway; or it could still have been an anovulatory follicle, by the sound of things. When is the next scan due? It's tough to say, but it's possible that there could be another follicle now, or a very recent ovulation, depending on how many days ago she showed interest in the gelding... let me know what the next scan shows - in as much detail as possible!
 
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