Still no luck with saddles - feeling bit down

[suzi]

After probs with jump saddle bought in May that's never been right. Had a different saddler out today. Tried on 18 saddles only one even came close to fitting (a mono-flap one) and I hated riding in it, found it very uncomfortable and horse was an idiot to ride too.

To be fair the saddlers were very helpful but said this would be the only option for him and I'm not really sure what to do. really want to get on and get out jumping him but saddle has got to be right. Do I go with this and put up with my discomfort knowing it suits him?

The implication was that I won't find a conventional saddle to fit so this is my only option... Have had friends suggest a bespoke saddle or trying something like a WOW but don't know if this is an option? How many saddlers / saddles do I go to?

Just feeling a bit deflated as horse was a tit to school too which made me feel stupid as I didn't want to jump more than a tiny x pole even though I'm after a jump saddle as I BS.

 

[Flight]

keep trying, don't settle until you are happy with the saddle for you and your horse. If you not comfortable it will affect your riding. I tried 5 different saddlers and hundreds of saddles on my old horse before finding one we were both happy with. Tried wow, treeless, cheap and expensive saddles and nothing was right. In the end I had one made to measure by a company I had never heard of and it was great and worked out cheaper than a lot of the off the peg saddles I had tried. Fitted really well and although it was slightly harder on the bum than I would have preferred it sat me in a really good position.

 

[WildRider]

Sorry, I don't know if you've posted the reasons previously, but why are you being told you won't find a saddle to fit both you and your horse?

 

[suzi]

WildRider, I didn't like the mono flap which was the only one that fitted today, found I could feel the stirrup bars, girth straps through the saddle and it was quite uncomfortable, in fact I have a small bruise on the inside of each thigh after riding for abolut half hour in it.

Horse has big shoulders but quite a dip in the 'triangle' between shoulder and wither. Everything else we tried was moving on his back as it was almost sitting too far back in order to get it to sit behind his shoulder. If that makes sense??

 

[sykokat]

Have you contacted martin wilkinson? He is based in Hertfordshire but is a master saddler and absolutely brilliant! He travels all ober including abroad. We have used him many times, including for a pony which we were told would need a made to measure. Martin sorted a saddle for him with no trouble at all. He is really sought after and you may need to wait a few weeks but he is worth it. We send them photos via email before he fits a saddle so he has a little information on the horse. I can't recommend him enough!

 

[muff747]

Don't know if this will help but I have a high withered big shouldered TB and went thro loads of saddles due to them making his back sore, like yours the back was swinging side to side. My instructor had him stay for a week or two and she put her old Bates synthetic saddle on him. I was a little worried but she said it fit so many horses - and it did fit mine, and felt great to ride in.
I wasn't into jumping so in the end I bought a Wintec Isabel dressage saddle which stayed clear of his shoulders and never moved on his back - no more soreness. And it was sooo comfortable for me with the gel seat
I believe Wintec do all discipline saddles but if it is forward cut for jumping, you may have the same problem with his shoulders moving the flaps side to side. You never know though, the material is very easy to keep clean and looks good, better than some synthetics and the suede effect is very grippy and makes you feel very secure.
Just a thought - good luck

 

[Louby]

Sorry, I don't know if you've posted the reasons previously, but why are you being told you won't find a saddle to fit both you and your horse?

I was told this too, so for 8 yrs I have put up with a saddle that fits my horse perfectly but isnt really right for me (horse can only take 17 inch max and I need 17.5) so last year same saddler fit a saddle to me (made to measure) and had the panels altered to fit my horse. It was a disaster and kept putting too much pressure behind and after numerous alterations we tried another saddle and more problems, kept moving slightly forward but this put me totally out of balance, so thankfully I was given a full refund, 12 mths after I initially bought the saddle and Im now stuck with the old saddle that rubs me.

Ive had enough of saddles for the moment and will put up with what I have with a seat saver but I have to admit Im wary of trying again. They are such a big investment and have to be right. I was lucky to get a full refund but may not be so lucky in the future as I know my very short coupled horse is a bit of a nightmare to fit.

 

[longdog]

The right one is out there, you are just going to have to search v hard for it! It might be worth noting makes etc that you have tried & then ringing around other saddlers to see if they carry different makes for you to try.

Good luck!

 

[mystiandsunny]

If it was me, I'd take the horse up to Catlips in Hertfordshire (Rickmansworth). They have an unbelievable number of second hand saddles to try, for all budgets - and new ones can be made bespoke (for about £500 last time I had one made - which my horse LOVES btw!!!) by a lovely guy who lives up north a little and comes down fortnightly to drop off saddles/collect repairs etc. Sheila who runs it knows her stuff and will fit the saddle for you. I took my tricky-to-fit WBx and I think we went through about 20 different second-hand saddles before we found one that fitted just perfectly. She loves it and so do I! You just phone up, arrange a day/time to suit you and her, take horse and all sorted!

 

[soloequestrian]

Have a look at Balance International.

 

[WildRider]

I can understand you not liking the monoflap, they certainly aren't to everyone's taste.

So from your description, am I correct in thinking that you have problems with the panel designs on saddles? If that's the case, possibly it might be worth taking a couple of templates of your horse to demonstrate his profile, and sending them to some saddlers so they can see what he's like, so they can give an indication of whether they can help?

 

[wimble]

It s a real pain when you get a problem like this. I've been there too. Two ideas - have a look at the Enlightened Equitation website (they do treeless and semi treeless) and look at what they say about building up muscle on horses who have muscle wastage in the 'triangle' are you describe. They use something called a 'suber pad'.
Also look at Wow. They are not cheap - you can buy second hand but still not exactly cheap and you need to know EXACTLY what you want as the permutations are pretty endless - but the end results have been worth while, at least for me. And I have moved on from the difficult horse I originally got the Wow for, and the saddle has moved on with me and has been adaptable for the next horse too.

Oh, and the sore thigh bit goes away with Wow too!

 

[suzi]

WildRider, that's a good idea. How would be best to take the templates?

Wimble, thank you. I will look at those ideas too.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I was in exactly the same position as you OP and had despaired of getting anything to fit my boy.

I will unashamedly recommend these people: www.thepainfreehorse.co.uk

Good luck!

 

[Luci07]

Suzi, as you are Surrey based, have you tried Ellie Martin? She is a master saddler, does do bespoke saddles and is very clear with her advice when fitting Last time she actually got me a K2 as said it was the best fit for my horse, even though I had been looking at going for another one of her bespokes. Pm me if you want her number, she has been looking after me for years!

 

[kerilli]

don't give up, persevere until you find a saddle that fits you both.
i'd try another saddler with a good selection. it sounds as if your horse is a fairly typical TB-ish shape, with low set-on ribs. tbh there are lots of saddles that fit this sort of horse.
i would personally counter the recommendation of MW. i hope a dis-recommendation is allowed as much as a recommendation!
good luck with your search.

 

[suzi]

Kerilli, disrecommendations are certainly allowed in my books but could you pm me why?

 

[meandmyself]

How about adding a pad with shims to fill in the dip?

I've heard really good things about these, and while they're pricey, they're not much compared to the price of a new saddle.

Could you post pics of your horse's back/wither/confo? Someone might be able to recommend a saddle.

 

[suzi]

I will try and take some pics tomorrow...and then work out how to post them!

Will look at the pads too...thank you.

 

[meandmyself]

I will try and take some pics tomorrow...and then work out how to post them!

Will look at the pads too...thank you.

To post pics, you need to upload them to an image hosting site. I use photobucket.com.

Then just post the link to the pic (it's underneath the photo usually) on here.

 

[sbloom]

Photos would be really useful. It sounds like he may need a deeper panel, a shim pad if the issue is muscle loss which should heal, or perhaps an aternative saddle, I have a ReactorPanel which may work, but I also fit traditional saddles and can't imagine there isn't something out there for him.

 

[Wagtail]

Just wanted to say that horses should not really have 'wither pockets' (dips behind the withers). They are cause by muscle wastage either from back problems or saddles that are too tight. In my horse's case, (a TB with huge shoulders that dipped behind and was therefore almost impossible to saddle), he was found to have kissing spines. Within 6 weeks of the operation, his wither pockets have completely gone and I will have to find him a much wider saddle. Another 18 year old horse on my yard had deep wither pockets and had therefore been fitted with a narrow/medium saddle. I realised the first time I went to school him for my client that he was actually a wide horse with lots of muscle wastage. We got the saddler out and he fitted a saddle with a wide tree, but he padded it out to fit the horse and took a template of his back. 6 weeks later the saddle was pinching so he came out again and took another template. The horse had gained two inches of muscle on either side of his wither! So the extra stuffing was removed and the horse continued to fill out. Now the horse that was deemed too stiff to ever school again, is schooling beautifully and competing dressage.

My point is, that usually horses with big wide shoulders have big wide backs to match. If they dip significantly behind the shoulder, it usually means they have muscle wastage and should be fitted with wider tree saddles that don't interfere with the shoulder and the gaps should be temporarily padded out with something such as a korrector saddle pad so that the muscle can be allowed to recover.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Don't know if this will help but I have a high withered big shouldered TB and went thro loads of saddles due to them making his back sore, like yours the back was swinging side to side. My instructor had him stay for a week or two and she put her old Bates synthetic saddle on him. I was a little worried but she said it fit so many horses - and it did fit mine, and felt great to ride in.
I wasn't into jumping so in the end I bought a Wintec Isabel dressage saddle which stayed clear of his shoulders and never moved on his back - no more soreness. And it was sooo comfortable for me with the gel seat
I believe Wintec do all discipline saddles but if it is forward cut for jumping, you may have the same problem with his shoulders moving the flaps side to side. You never know though, the material is very easy to keep clean and looks good, better than some synthetics and the suede effect is very grippy and makes you feel very secure.
Just a thought - good luck

I don't think a Winter GP will fit, I have a fairly easy horse, and had to ditch the Wintec as it was tipping me forward, very "large" for its size if you know what I mean, so not suited to short backed type, more for a full size WB type.

 

[forestfantasy]

Solutions SMART Jump saddle -
http://www.solution-saddles.co.uk/sssaddlesmart.html

Treeless - so will fit any horse as its fitted to you. They are an aquired taste though but definitely worth trying - there are fitters all around the country and you can trial one for a week.

Fitters - http://www.solution-saddles.co.uk/ssadvisors.html

 

[Winklepoker]

Failing that Sue Carson ... fit there saddles to ANYTHING x

 

[suzi]

Thank you for all your replies.

Wagtail - I think you are right. Before I got him he had only ever jumped and not really been doing a huge amount of flatwork. He also worked very upright with his head carriage and tended to come 'bakc towards me' in transitions rather than working in a balanced lower head carriage.

We've done lots of flatwork and he's building his muscle up but it's a slow process....

Thinking that lunging might help with this muscle build up too as he could work in a freer outline without restriction??

Will start googling the saddle suggestions too....

 

[Monkers]

I can highly recommend Nick Creaton. What he doesn't know about saddles probably isn't worth knowing! Over the last 20 years myself and friends have had around 15 of his saddles and we have all been delighted.
We have another dressage saddle coming on Sunday for an awkward shaped cob.
They are all hand made by one person and are all made to measure. They are not expensive compared to many brands, this last one was £1400 I think.

http://www.nickcreaton.co.uk/index.html

 

[suzi]

Attempting to post photos . . . (my first ever attempt so fingers crossed!!)

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z438/suzi_hopkins/IMG-20120105-00021.jpg

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http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z438/suzi_hopkins/IMG-20120105-00022.jpg

 

[sbloom]

Opening just the first pic shows muscle loss - you see the horizontal shadow near the top of the wither? This shows it is concave here, a healthy back should be straight or convex. You need to find the REAL tree width he is, which is wide than you'll think, and then work with a deeper panel as well as some padding (Mattes correction pad ideal) to help him regain muscle. YOu do need to work with a good fitter.

The ReactorPanel would also be great if you can get a good fitting over the scapula - no reason you can't but it depends on the exact make up there as to how well it will sit. If it can be fitted it is one of the best saddles to allow the muscle to build back up.

 

[fuggly]

try www.laviniamitchell.com/
she used to work for balance saddles but now does her own range , alot cheaper than balance but just as good , the padding system works really well for difficult to fit horses and muscle wastage and the saddles are comfortable for both horse and rider ,