Still no resolution.. Twitching withers..

Jordi222

Jordi222

Active Member
Joined
2 February 2015
Messages
36
Visit site
I posted a couple of months back in regards to my mares problem. She's an 18 year old 15.2 shirexcob and I've had her since November. She's been turned away since January as she had an abcess on her hind hoof and was stabled to prevent it getting worse.

The issue began randomly one day, I ran my hands over her as I always would to check she is all okay and to fuss her and her withers area began twitching as though there were flies.. The reaction was only every now and again back then so I rode once after the abcess cleared.. Since late January, it's been hell.
My mare will canter and buck around the field with her friends, trotting, rolling, messing around - no lameness whatsoever. She is heavy on the forehand and will never let me pick her front feet up. Sadly she has been turned away since late January as the twitching is constant. I have had chiropractors to her, the vet once, physio.. I don't know where to go from here.

The thought of ulcers has been on my mind a lot as her reaction is very similar to that of a horse with severe ulcers - our paddocks are on top of a cliff so perhaps her moving when I bought her to saltier, richer fields had upset her stomach? She is happy with long reining and Pessoa work, although lazy and still twitches at the roller. I can't even blow on the area without her twitching and stamping her feet.
Please can someone help? I love her dearly but I am just unable to keep her if she will just be an ornament in a field.
I've ruled out any skin problems, we have used deosect to eradicate the possibility of bugs.
The only other thing is that she came with a terrible saddle from a lying 'private' seller who turned out to be a sly dealer.. But surely three months of being turned away would at least improve her symptoms??
I'm so sorry for the long post, but she is on my mind every single day and I am worried for her future. I do have a video of the reaction, but am unsure if I am able to attach it onto this somehow.

Thank you in advance for any replies. X
 
It is probably not related to the twitching but have you ever been able to pick up her front feet to pick them out properly? what about the farrier can he do them easily, has she got thrush?

It doesn't sound like typical ulcer symptoms although they do vary considerably, any muscle damage from the saddle will have been noticed by the physio and should have been treated and the treatment explained to you at the time so that should be able to be ruled out by now.

Does she stamp her front or back feet when she twitches?

Did the vet find anything wrong or just suggest the deosect to get rid of mites, I have never dealt with mites but they do sometimes take a long while to eradicate and often require the feathers to be clipped off so the treatment can get through properly.

Has sweet itch been considered?

What is she fed on?

Sorry lots of questions but sometimes you need to go through everything to get to the answer, a video would be interesting and may give us more idea of what it could be, I guess you have had no help from her previous owner but it may be worth trying to contact any other people on her passport to see if they can tell you more about her and if it has ever happened before.
 
I've only been able to pick them out with the help of a farrier (I know it sounds terrible but she is so heavy and its a huge task to get hold of her fronts as she leans on whoever is trying to pick them up). She has appeared to have thrush before, yes, but we have previously managed to spray a disinfectant and
 
Sorry, posted half way through by accident!

We have managed to spray disinfectant and purple spray before, but this would be nearly impossible now.

The chiro and physio have been guessing at it but, with no considerable improvement over the past few months. My vet came out when it all got worse and he said oh I can't feel any major problems, but could possibly be kissing spines(!!!!). She is so so active, but the area is so sensitive so I am so reluctant to believe it is kissing spines without an X-ray - I think it is something a little more obscure than a breakage or kissing spines.

The twitch is triggered when the hair is touched or moved, or I even put my hand on the area. It's a huge reaction and the physio suggested it's a hypersensitivity from the anticipation of some sort of pain?

She started out on chaff with MSM glucosamine, but as she started dropping top line I moved to calm and condition.. And now she's on 24/7 turnout and just getting her fill of a strip of grass twice daily.

The first owner on her passport actually broke her themselves, she was bought by them when she was 6 months. She's had two foals by age four but apart from that, they didn't have much more information on her.
Your questions are fine, I just really appreciate the reply if I'm honest, am open to anything!
 
It sounds as if it is a response to pain. Is she 'holding' herself through discomfort (possibly in front feet) which then sets off a trigger reaction in the wither area through spasms resulting in twitching.
 
I just don't know where to go from here. She was so fit and happy and good to do before January in the first two months. Now since then I can barely even brush her without setting her off. I'm at my wits end
 
deicinmerlyn said:
It sounds as if it is a response to pain. Is she 'holding' herself through discomfort (possibly in front feet) which then sets off a trigger reaction in the wither area through spasms resulting in twitching.
Click to expand...

I keep coming back to the front feet, no horse should be that difficult to pick up, she sounds a nice girl generally so should be fine to pick up her feet unless they hurt her so lifting one and putting all the weight on the other proves too painful, she may appear sound if they are both equally sore, thrush can be very uncomfortable and progressive, it would be the next step to get the farrier out for a good examination to see what is going on if there is some in very deep it may not be that obvious.

I checked your previous thread and see she has lost topline, which could suggest KS as when the topline is good it holds everything in place better, once the muscle drops the processes can touch more easily but without xrays this will just be guesswork as it cannot be felt by a vet they can just have an educated guess but the twitching does not ring a bell from the many posts about KS we have had on here and I am sure someone would have seen it as a symptom.

Not sure what else to suggest, rugs were dealt with last time, did you try using a detox in case it is dietary, she may be deficient in something so running bloods may be worthwhile although it would probably help to have some idea what to look for a general screening may bring up something useful.
 
I think I'll call the farrier out in the next couple of weeks, even he finds it a struggle to lift her feet. I will be using my friend farrier though, as people have always commented that my usual guy cuts their feet too short?? My chiro commented on her feet too, saying they've been cut short.. Not sure if that is something to factor in?

I had tried giving her magnesium and pink powder and all sorts as I am just clutching at straws now. My vet comes to check bloods on our 35 year old (cushings) so I may have to get him to check hers just to be of sound mind. Her top line has appeared to get better over these months and when she was stabled she actually lost 20kgs in two/three weeks which is shocking considering she was never without food.
 
Some horses with ulcers are sensitive where the withers join the back ,there is a video on youtube ULCER DIAGNOSIS BY MARK DEPAOLO you could look and see if it is the same place on your horse .

Have you done a Bute trial to see if it is pain related.?

Or get the vet to scan the area to make sure there is nothing stuck in there ,I knew a horse years ago that had a plaiting needle in its neck ,and one that used to drop its head when ridden and was reluctant to pick up front feet that had a bone chip on the withers.
Only other thing is how good is your vet ,it might be worth getting a second opinion.
 
Shergar, it's that exact video that made me suspect ulcers as the horse in the video reacts exactly as my mare does when I touch the area. I'm trying to be careful as strange as it sounds I would like it to be ulcers as I can move forward with treatment. The horse in the video is the best comparison to what my mare is doing.. She's also gradually got very mareish and went through a really aggressive phase with me which is odd because although she is wise and knows every trick.. She'd never been 'nasty'.

My vet originally suggested putting her on a week of daily bute to see if the spasm subsided, but there was no difference (she was on roughly 4 sachets of bute per day).

I think a scan would be a good way to go - or perhaps a thermal imaging scan.. Someone in my area is able to do it for £40 which I guess can't hurt as my chiro and physio are £65 per session.
It's funny how we are with animals really.. There is no other horse I would want in the world but her!
 
Ok here goes - I have a big thing about foot balance - if your farrier has cut her to short that is a good reason not to trust anyone to touch your feet for starters and the soreness will transfer up into the shoulders. Also, my horse was very sore on the front and it is because he wasn't using the back end properly meaning the front end was working so hard that he was worried about lifting the front feet he was worried the back legs couldn't support him enough.

I might be inclined to get a properly qualified equine podiatrist to look at the foot balance (try DAEP), a farrier can cause a lot of damage just in a couple of shoeings as I know to my own cost, my horse ended up with tremors in one of his front legs, the state of his feet when shoes came off was horrendous, unlevel from side to side and underrun by an inch, the backs were so bad he was leaning to the inside of the foot which is why he was having such problems supporting himself, mostly caused in the last 3 shoeings he had. A podiatrist will look at all of this as if the feet aren't level everything else seizes up, they don't do a bog standard pasture trim they should properly look at the foot and how the individual horse uses it. Start at the feet and then work up.

Also, if you know anyone that has an equissage borrow it it will really help the muscle tension. FWIW, my horse had KS as a baby and after surgery was sound for 8yrs until a change of farrier messed his feet up and and destroyed him, the stress of the incorrect balance has caused some issues in the hocks and he has now been barefoot for 2yrs. I've got the tshirt on lameness issues - for the sake of £40, it might be worth a try.
 
If I'm honest I agree the feet are a good place to start -though she was stubborn lifting her feet when I first got her. She's barefoot and has been for over 10 years (apparently).

Perhaps the next farrier could assess whether a remedial shoeing might help - but thank you for your information about your horse not using his back end - why was this? She's very heavy on the forehand since all this and her hind legs aren't always engaged, I've been using a Pessoa to get her working, though nothing harsh or lengthy, just 10 minutes walking and long reining around the farm.

I'll be putting my feelers out for a podiatrist too.
 
If she's been box rested and doesn't have feet picked between farrier visits they are likely pretty manky underneath? It's also not normal she be so reticent about picking them up. If feet not sore I think you need some proper vet consideration not thermography.
 
When I called the vet out after the twitching got more regular, he did manage to pick up her fronts (it took a while but we got there) and he was able to stretch out her legs and check her shoulder movements etc.. Some sort of flexion etc to check how 'normal' she was in that region.
I may have to ring them eventually to figure out the next steps I need to take, but obviously if it is something simple, solving it myself would be better! Fingers are constantly crossed for this mare but I'm just hoping there isn't something too severe going on.
 
If she was mine I think I'd be discussing a bute trial with my vet as a starting point. If the lifting the front feet is pain related it should be easier when she is buted?
I'd be getting the farrier to her feet and having a good look at the condition of them and then working on picking them up every day.
I'd also be inclined to have the wither area x rayed, as the only horse I ever knew to do this had an old healed fracture in the wither area. It may be that lifting the front feet for prolonged times causes more pain.
 
Jordi222 said:
Shergar, it's that exact video that made me suspect ulcers as the horse in the video reacts exactly as my mare does when I touch the area. I'm trying to be careful as strange as it sounds I would like it to be ulcers as I can move forward with treatment. The horse in the video is the best comparison to what my mare is doing.. She's also gradually got very mareish and went through a really aggressive phase with me which is odd because although she is wise and knows every trick.. She'd never been 'nasty'.

My vet originally suggested putting her on a week of daily bute to see if the spasm subsided, but there was no difference (she was on roughly 4 sachets of bute per day).

I think a scan would be a good way to go - or perhaps a thermal imaging scan.. Someone in my area is able to do it for £40 which I guess can't hurt as my chiro and physio are £65 per session.
It's funny how we are with animals really.. There is no other horse I would want in the world but her!
Click to expand...

click on the search box at the top of this page when the page comes up there is a box that says key words type in twitching withers and click search some more threads that might be of interest .
There has to be an answer ,you sound like such a loving owner.
 
She had a bute trial and this made no difference. It's tricky as she can be stubborn so perhaps if I did lift her feet/ work on lifting her feet daily I would notice any changes or reactions.
 
Hi Jordi, bit of a long story but because the farrier hadn't trimmed correctly, the foot balance was completely out of kilter and that put a lot of stress on his hock joints, they took off loads of heel so he had nothing left to balance on and the foot ran forwards really quickly - this is why I am suggesting a podiatrist to check the foot balance because even if she barefoot, the trim can still be incorrect and the heels can run forward and be incorrectly angled. Can you video her moving and slow it down to see if she if landing toe first - if she is that will concuss everything and was why my horse was so so uncomfortable.

My horse was so sore that I had a bit of an argument with the senior partner of my very well known specialist equine clinic as he told me the horse was clearly footsore on the fronts and needed shoes - I knew he was footsore but it was because his front legs were doing so much work, as soon as we got him comfortable and able to bear weight on the back end barefoot with pads and wraps he became sound on the front, but sadly getting the feet level again caused another lot of stress on the hock so he was then treated for minor hock spavin on the back legs as the fronts being sound then clearly showed up mechanical lameness behind - Are you still with me, told you it was a long and painful story?????? As an aside my body worker & chiro love my horse and he never suffers from any issues they can find but with this he was sore in the withers and back of pelvis just above the top of the hip - it was diagonal soreness as you would expect.

If you can video the footfall it just might show up something, the weather won't have helped either so she might well be footsore & have thrush in any case as the feet weaken at this time of year. Also look at the coronet band and see if it is straight or wonky that will also help you to establish how level the feet are. Podiatry is likely in the long run to be cheaper than remedial shoes which generally look like they've solved the problem for a few weeks and then your horse is crippled again. Good luck, I hope you find an easy solution, keep us posted.

PS just saw your last post - bute doesn't work if it's feet & she may well get ulcers if she is sore and worn out with it all!!!
 
Last edited:
I had a horse with twitchy withers. I didn't know what to do, but found out Caroline Arkill's telephone number.
She looked at him, saw the symptoms, then the treatment consisted of running from one side of the stable to give him a sharp knock on the wither area. This cured him completely and he never did it again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top