Stomach ulcers - how do you know?

lisab

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I've just read the post about a horse turning violent and aggressive and a lot of people suggested ulcers.

I've had mine for 9 years and he's always been sharp and wilful but he turned into a dangerous, unrideable maniac over the last few weeks.

I had the vet, he had a full check over and blood tests. Eyes and head and back all fine. Bloods almost perfect.

Teeth checked and fine.

It started with spinning. Then spinning and rearing. Then spinning and rearing and jumping in front of cars.

He also gnashed at his lead rope and at the tying up string. And was basically extremely rude and obnoxious.

I didn't ride him for a week and changed him from green horsehage to blue. From competition mix to Calm and Condition. And put him on Magic.

His behaviour is a lot better but he's still being stupid on the road, spinning at things like thistles round the farm and bucking and shooting sideways when I give him a canter.

Something from the other post made me think - he has also always been girthy and doesn't like you messing with his rugs.

Does this sound like ulcers or is he just being a monkey? He has got like this in the past when I haven't jumped him for a bit and I haven't been to a show for a month.

Oh - he can't have hay, any sort of hay, soaked or steamed or anything. COPD. Has to be horsehage.

Any ideas re ulcers?

Thanks.
 

dressage_diva

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How much horsehage does he get a day? How much turnout?

The main reason ulcers form is that there isn't enough fibre in the horse's diet (so acid build up leading to ulceration).

I'd say that ulcers are certainly very "fashionable" at the moment (if that's the right word). More people are getting their horses tested and more horses are being found to have ulcers, but we also don't know what is a "normal level of ulceration" so just because a horse is found to have ulcers, doesn't mean they've only just developed and have caused the changes in the horse's behaviour.

It is indeed possible that your horse's behaviour is related to stomach ulcers, but it could just be his nature. If he has high amounts of fibre in his diet, I'd suggest its less likely he will have ulcers.
 

lisab

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The vet said such a change in character is normally pain related but also said that he looks very well and doesn't look in pain.

He said to try him after 10 days on the new feed regime and see how he is. Which I have done. He said if he's no better, I'm to put him on bute for 10 days and if he is better on bute then it is probably pain related and then have him scoped for ulcers.

Thing is - he is a lot better but he is still not safe to ride on the road and is still spinning and shooting round the farm. Although not rearing, which is an improvement.

I don't know what to do. He's nowhere near as bad as he was before I changed his diet but he is still a bit of a fruit loop.

I have insurance so am covered for the scope but now I don't know whether he is just being sharp and silly or is in pain. He really doesn't look in pain.

Confused.com!
 

SpottedCat

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Mine showed none of the 'normal' symptoms and looked super-well. Two vets told me there was nothing wrong with him. He deteriorated massively and eventually I took him to a different vet. He had grade 4 splash and glandular ulcers. His were caused by bacterial infection.

Thing is, ulcers are easy and relatively cheap to test for, but the symptoms are so broad and wide ranging that you can't really tell without scoping. So what you describe could easily be ulcers or it could be something else, or it could be nothing!
 

be positive

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I may be wrong but thought that bute would be likely to make things worse if he has ulcers not better, so a bute trial would be potentially giving a false result. It could be something else but do not assume that if he is no better on bute it is not ulcers.
 

whizzer

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Mine was miserable & vile to handle, he's always been snappy when girthing & rugging but he was even worse with ulcers, also lost tons of weight(about 30kg!), he wasn't in much work at the time but was very unhappy when I did ride. However I was already very suspicious of ulcers as he'd had 2 lots of surgery last winter,with long stays at the vets,on 1st vet stay hardly ate for over a week, then shed loads of box rest & weeks & weeks of bute so ulcers weren't really a surprise! I couldn't get him scoped for ages as he'd had extensive sinus surgery & think last may a long journey to vets,then sedation & check up scan just tipped them over the edge as was just after that he suddenly lost weight etc. Scoped & had grade 2 & 3's. 3 weeks on gastrogard sorted them & seems fine now & back to normal levels of snapping when I'm rugging or girthing up!
 

TarrSteps

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He said to try him after 10 days on the new feed regime and see how he is. Which I have done. He said if he's no better, I'm to put him on bute for 10 days and if he is better on bute then it is probably pain related and then have him scoped for ulcers.

I'm a bit confused by this . . . bute and other NSIADs can negatively affect horses with ulcers (not primarily because of the acidity etc, it's to do with the way the drugs actually work). Did he mean if you "rule out" ulcers (the only way to do this for sure is scoping) then he will try a bute trial to see if the horse is has musculoskeletal pain? The small catch there is chronic pain is often a risk factor for ulcers so it's not out of the realm of reason a horse might have both tipping it over the edge. In which case, addressing one aspect only might not completely solve the problem.

If it's relatively easily done, get him scoped. The other option - common in parts of the world where scoping is not so easily done and insurance works differently - is to try the horse on a course of Gastroguard and see if you get a positive result.
 

YasandCrystal

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What Tarrsteps says is exactly right - ulcers can be symptomatic of a different painful problem. I speak from the experience of my horse who had low grade ulcers and went on to be diagnosed with chronic SI dysfunction. My horse's behaviour was extreme so it was quite obvious that unless he was the most sensitive horse in the world the low grade ulcers couldn't be the root problem.

I did a test though - I fed him him 7 Rantacidine tablets (can buy online cheaply - ebay or in a chemist) and 5 Sucralfrate tablets (Antepsin - ask your vet to sell you they are cheap) daily and before riding we gave him a bucket of chaff and he improved within 2 days. The drugs work like a bandage really and give the horse some relief from the ulcers, but do not cure them. This is a cheap test. Others recommend feeding a cup of linestone flour twice daily and trying same thing. If he has ulcers you will need to stop feeding haylage - that aggravates them. I cut out all cereals and sugar and feed mine micronized linseed which is good for gut health and A & P cereal and sugar intolerant feed and carob (locust bean) following a month of Gastrogard treatment.

Looks can be deceiving - the horse in my avatar doesn't look in pain at all, but boy was he. As Spottedcat says - ulcers can be caused in a manner of ways. Only you know your horse and if he doesn't seem right then there is likely something going on.

I went on to do a pain trail by giving my horse Danilon for a week and this proved he was in pain after the ulcers were sorted. Good luck! Let us all know the outcome. Horses are not aggressive by nature. It is either pain or abuse that causes a horse to be aggressive in 99% of cases. :)
 
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