stop treating them like children who are mute

[jules9671]

i have had a few problems with my horse and some of the advice i have had is that my horse (recurrent colic) may have a sugar intolerance so have him restricted to grazing which is like saying humans cant drink water because it upsets their digestive system, i try and keep my horses out for as lon gas possible in what should be their natural enviroment, if my horse could not eat his natural food and his only food in his natural state
would that mean that he would die, all mankind have evolved but we still need the basic food and water

 

[Nailed]

try coligon. Speak to super_kat or h'smum it is wonderful stuff.
Lou x

 

[jules9671]

i have tried coligone and he still had colic so he is being investigated further,
coligone is very expensive if you were to use it all the time, you need to treat the problem not the symptoms..

 

[LauraBR]

I have owned a horse who suffered from colic if he was allowed access to too much grass. It is not uncommon and it is serious.

I stripgrazed my horse which allowed him minimal grass but freedom in his field, it worked well for us. If coligone had been around then I would have fed it, as it was he just had pre and probiotics.

The natural environment argument doesn't really work- and it is not comparable to humans and water.

If you suspect your horse is getting colic due to suger intolerance I suggest you remove all sources of sugar.

First and foremost you need to listen to the advice of your vet- what does he/she say?

 

[jules9671]

well my horse has colic regardless of grass. straw bedding. shavings bedding. kept in the stable, out at grass, as for the coligone it has the same ingredients as gaviscon which is what we use but we would not use that everyday or do we i dont know, if i really thought it was to do with what he eats i would change it but i dont really know and im not willing to keep him in the stable all day and night as he gets colic no matter what i do.

 

[LauraBR]

Sounds like a nightmare

what does the vet say?

 

[Weezy]

Why do you not want to use Coligone/Gaviscon daily? Many do and with the results they crave - a happier horse! Do you understand how it works and why sometimes ths preventative measure is needed?

Trying to say stopping a horse grazing is akin to taking its water away is wrong - grazing in teh wild is HUGELY different to the, truthfully, unnatural grazing we offer our horses today!

 

[jules9671]

well the vet does not know why he is like this,,im confident with him and he is a good vet, he was meant to go to dick vet last sunday but they cancelled so he is due to go there on 5th feb, i hope they find out something, i have another horse who is stabled and eats the same and she is good

 

[jules9671]

how can i start giving my horse a man made product to help with his condition, and in the same sentence say natural grazing is not what it used to be, its like saying i caused you to get this problem so let me fix it with this stuff that i have invented, we want to be natural in our horsemanship,be nice to the horse have patience reward if nice etc, but he cant be fed a diet that he has had for thousands of years.it just seems that hypochondria may be reaching horse owners. if he is ill, for such a long time dont you think the vet should be allowed to say i dont know what is wrong but i will refer you to a vet school, to see if they can see what is wrong

 

[Llwyncwn]

Really sorry to hear about your horse, I do hope you get it sorted soon. Has your vet done a 'peritoneal tap'? Could it be an ulcer? What hard feed are you using?
If you have been reading the threads over the last few weeks there have been a number regarding grass intollerance, which was totally new to me, but this is something you might light to look at. Please keep us all informed x

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Sounds like a nightmare and from what you say may not be related to a sugar intolerance if it happens anyway whether hes in or out - do let us know how he gets on
However, must comment that in general what you are saying isnt really correct, saying a horse is allergic to grass is not like a human with water. A human with water would be like a horse with water. In human terms it would be more like a wheat or dairy intolerance - something we need but our systems cannot tolerate.
But like i said, if it does happen no matter whether hes grazing or not then i would say theres something different goin on xx

 

[Weezy]

Yes, I certainly thnk veterinarian advice is necessary in your case

What I was getting at tho was the grazing we give our horses these days is far from natural - we fertilise, roll and prepare our pasture; we ensure the grass is the best it can be - grass that, in a natural habitat, is seldom found!

 

[ann-jen]

Just a thought but if you are worried about having to stable your horse for long periods to limit his access to grass then why not consider getting him a grazing muzzle - that way he can still go out with his buddies but you will still be able to limit the amount of grass he has.

 

[Dougie]

sorry but you cant go on about this natural crap! no matter what we do it will never be natural, if it were they ould gallop as one big herd with fences or boundries! the forage would be much more varied.

secondly the humans and water, completely different! however children can have lactose (milk) intolerance...surely in the wild this would mean babies starve to death????

anyway lets hope the dick vet come up with somthing. what age is he?

 

[chriscrogul]

I have a horse who colicd for the 1st time last Autumn, contributing factors were double dose wormer Sunday, new pasture Tuesday and colic Wednesday. Since then he colicd again on new pasture (we change fields roughly every six weeks) so now I restrict his grazing for a few days when we change fields. He is a 7yo ex racer (a human developed breed not found in nature) who windsucks. He has no previous history of colic. The vet said he may have something along the lines of ibs which is exacerbated by new grass. Our pasture is fertilized, harrowed etc, not natural. Although surrounded by hedgerow I don't suppose there is much opportunity for natural foraging!
I don't suppose there is a high incidence of laminitis in the wild either!

 

[Dougie]

or COPD

 

[Fairynuff]

Or ulcers Dougie! Did you know that true wild or feral horses dont get to reach their 20th birthdays due to the state of their teeth? They starve to death. M.

 

[henryhorn]

Without an MRI scan no-one can accurately diagnose what is wrong with your horse.
Years ago we had a mare who occasionally colicked (before scans existed!) and eventually she ended up at Liverpool Vet , Hosp. They operated and discovered a small hole between her diaphram and her stomach had enlarged. The hole had been there since birth but something had made it worse.
Your horse could have something similar, but you do need to go further to find out.
Did the coligone work? If so it may be ulcers, and again, you need more investigation.
I take your point re grass can't be bad for horses but it all depends on what grass.
We have several diffeent types of grazing here, some is fertilised, other left totally natural and rested for long periods to regenerate. There are lots of herbs, and you see the horses choosing carefully what they eat . The water is naturalspring and has been tested pure. You may be feeding your horse on a highly grazed over fertilised tap water diet, and not the "natural" thing you talk about.
I am loathe to say we rarely get colic here with the horses living a very natural life, but why don' they get laminitis when all have 24/7 access to ad lib haylage? That is everything from a mini shetland to TBs!
Think hard about your natural environment, get some more investigations done, and investigate ulcers.. It sounds like them to me I'm afraid.

 

[amandaco2]

agree with henryhorn

 

[puddicat]

I'd be very interested to hear how your horse gets on and if the vet ties it down to something.

Who suggested it had sugar intollerence? I've heard that phrase used several times now on HHO and it seems a bit odd. Pretty much anything you can feed a horse has some sort of sugar in it so is the term being used to refer to one particular type of sugar?

It seems to me what you're doing is very sensible though, diet is only one of several possible causes of colicing so I'd be interested to see what the vet manages to rule out before wondering about diet. I think the answer to your question, whether it is rhetorical or not, is yes: horses have a digestive system that is adapted for a steady throughput of low grade forage and moving too far away from that causes problems. I've noticed over the past few years that conditions of the human GI tract and associated remedies are being 'mapped over onto horses' in the sense that people may consider their horse as a direct analogy to a human. Given the extent of the differences between human and equine nutrition and digestive system this idea isn't realistic.

Good luck with it anyway, I shouldn't expect a quick verdict from the vet!

 

[Dougie]

with regards to ad lib hayledge, there is a school of thought which say constant 'rich' grazing throughout the year prevents lami in sring-early autum. that is why some feed grass cubes and sugar beet

 

[siennamum]

The only additional explanations which I know of for recuring colic which aren't so common are: Lipomas, which will be helped by a diet lower in grass and sugar. A horse I know has had repeaed and unexplained colic attacks which have been partially explained by an intoilerance to specific feeds. A bad culprit is linseed which causes immediate attacks, wormers also upset him and she is slowly experimenting to see what else seems to cause problems. He just seems t ohave a very sensitive stomach.

 

[air78]

Just to add; my 6 yo TB windsucker has had a few bouts of spasmodic colic. He has seen the vet the first couple of times it happened, but since then i have given homeopathic remedies at the onset, and have not had to get the vet out (I have spoken to them though) as his symptoms have cleared within 30 mins.
The vet thinks it is exercise related with my boy, as it has only happend if he has had three or more days off work- even if i am only walking him out the next time i ride.
The only other common factor is that he did not have it once over the summer when he was out 24/7; he is now in at night.
My vet also said that mild colic and mild auzotria (sp) have the same symptoms and are often confused.

 

[michaeljarmuz]

I think that a grazing muzzle may be a temporary solution but vetinary advise IS deff' required.

Gaviscon daily is an option BUT

I would recomend asking your vet about it!!!

 

[emma69]

The fact we keep our horses in fields, and stables means that they are not in their natural environment. By domesticating horses we have changed their diets and how they behave - in some instances, yes, horses develop problems they may not have had in the wild, but equally, many horses (and other wild animals) that are born with conditions affecting their food/water intake would die, survival of the fittest and all that. By domesticating horses, we have taken on responsibility for their well being - in the wild, the horse may well die, but the advent of technologies and medications to improve quality and longevity exist, and we can do things that can't be done in the wild.

Feeding coligone / gaviscon / other medication is not really any different to feeding them a bucket of pony nuts and sugar beet (i.e. foods they would not eat in the wild) If it stops the horse being in pain, does it really matter that they wouldn't have gaviscon / coligone in the wild? Surely that must come first.

I think you are doing the right thing sending the horse for further tests, and I hope that the problem is something easily corrected. Good luck

 

[H's mum]

I'm sorry to hear that your horse has been suffering still Jules - I do feel as though you're having a go at people on HHO for giving helpful and differing advice though - which isn't fair - Some horses DO become sugar/ fructose intollerant - hence problems like colic and laminitis - you asked for suggestions on why your horse could be colicking and people gave their honest opinions - I don't think it's fair to throw it back and ridicule - I know literally of hundreds of horses who struggle to eat a "normal" diet of rich grass - but... like others have pointed out - our "grass" isn't the same as the grass grazed au-natural! - Horses in the wild eat a varied diet - the grass would be more rugged and less rich - there wouldn't be fertilisers and other things that increase the richness of our pastures these days - Also - in this unnatural day and age - the whole WAY of keeping our horses - even those which we try to keep as natural as possible - is still a mile away from how horses roamed naturally.
To say that we should stop treating them like children who are mute is a bit extreme to say the least!
Kate x

 

[aimeerose]

i hope your vet discovers the source of the problem ASAP.

we did have a horse on our yard at one point who was very prone to colic, as others have said intoleriances can cause this - it turned out he couldnt have barley, linseed or carrots!! among other things.

weather conditions that altered the sugar content in the grass could also set him off, as could stress.

he was just a big lad (a 17.2 WB) who as someone else phrased it, had a 'sensitive stomach'.

he gets limited grass, lots of hay and hi-fi and his sugar intake is monitered as best his owner can.
ohh, and a big sign on his door that says ' DONT FEED ME'!