Stoping at jumps then rearing advice please

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sherbet

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My boy who is 6 this year has always been a bit of a pixie where jumps
are concerened.
He comes in to them then grinds to a halt. I thought we had sorted it last week and we seemed to be on fire. Had my weekly lesson and managed a small course.

Yesterday I was in the school at the same time as my instrctor and so thought I would pop a very small cross. He stopped then bunny hopped round . I did not turn him away I turned him to the jump he could do it from a standstill and gave him a smack at which point he went and reared. Not huge but big enough. At this point I got off and instrctor got on. He did it again and she smacked him between the ears! He then jumped fine.

Anyone have any advice as not something I want in my boy
 
sherbet said:
I turned him to the jump he could do it from a standstill and gave him a smack at which point he went and reared. Not huge but big enough. At this point I got off and instrctor got on. He did it again and she smacked him between the ears! He then jumped fine.
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:eek: :(

Your horse could be being difficult because he is in pain. I'm very suprised your instructor didn't point this out to you.

Get a vet to check him over, or get your vet to recommend a good chiro or physio in your area to do it. You would also need to check tack fit and suitability, and have his teeth checked & seen to.

Please PLEASE don't punish your horse again like this - how would you like it if someone smacked you over the head when you were trying to scream at them that something hurt?! Would you let them near you again, and would you be calm with them if faced with that situation again?

Better to call it a day on something else (i.e. make it a good note by trotting one nice 20m circle) and check all aspects of potential pain & fear before trying again.

Hope you get it sorted. x
 
Have you had the Top 3 checked out (teeth, back, saddle)? it might be pain related. In the past has he jumped consistently well and is this a new thing? I only ask this question as my boy loves his jumping and in the past when he's stopped at jumps or seems reluctant its turned out he's had pain - collatoral ligament and suspensory ligaments (two different injuries at two different times). Might be worth vet looking too?
 
My horse used to do this... i did think it was rather extreme thought as he just did it whenever he wanted- rather stroppy!!
Whenever he did it, i had to make him go in the direction he didn't want to go and just gallop for a tiny while, before walking him back and asking him to do what was asked of him in the first place.
Must have worked as he no longer does it!!
Good Luck!!
 
Sounds just like our rising 6 yr old being a stroppy teenage boy! Daughter was told to get a strong bouncy canter and really ride forward as he can't rear/nap if he is moving.
 
Change your instructor.

Do physical checks.

Back off the jumping.

Give him something else to think about.
 
Assuming the horse is not in pain.
Why would you change instructor?
Is it acceptable to allow a horse to rear?
If you stopped doing anything the horse objected to they would all be standing in fields doing nothing.
I am not condoning unnecessary smacking of horses but since they are not children and you cannot reason with them verbally what other option is there of stopping dangerous behaviour?
One smack behind the ears is not going to damage it but may have potentially stopped the rearing becoming an ingrained behaviour and trying to sort out that would be much harder. How many horses are moved on because of vices like this so is one smack worse than a dangerous horse being moved around to possibly innjure someone else.
You can all now shoot me down.
 
As everyone else has rightly said, get him properly checked out. There is no point trying to 'overcome' this if something is hurting him.

Then when/if everthing is OK, ALWAYS go back a gear with young horses. If he is stopping and rearing he is saying NO!, so just drop poles on the floor if need be, if they were bigger drop them down so they are tiny. Then just work back up again. It is much better for all involved to get the job done at a different level then to try and have a confontation (at this stage in training) so even if you just have a pole on the floor, get him over it call it a day and then next time, a pole then one side up etc.

Hope he is OK and remember young horses change shape alot especially this time of year with all the grass. I just had my saddle changed from two months ago to two different sizes!!
xxx
 
jrp204 said:
Assuming the horse is not in pain.
Why would you change instructor?
Is it acceptable to allow a horse to rear?
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Equally, why is it acceptable for the instructor to hit this 5 year old horse between the ears?

I don't think it is.
 
amymay, assuming the instructor knows the horse is not in pain (which could well be the case seeing as OP has not clarified whether he's been checked or not) what should she have done?

I must say in that situation I might have done the same thing. I'm curious now what other people think should be done with horses that rear.
 
My 6yo does this too. Its not pain related for him, but stubbornness related :p He loves jumping but he doesn't really like being told what to do or complying on some days so he's picked up a few tricks. Only thing I do is ride very forward and get a lot of impulsion..and use a stick behind my leg or on the neck if he starts to back off or I feel like he's taking a look and trying to find a reason to run out/rear/stop.
 
UPDATE

All checks done, teeth,back,saddle etc

Instructor has been teaching me for 2 years and we are on the same yard so knows both of us very well. I trust her 100% and she has helped with other situations.

I took him for a hack this morning with anouther horse and we had to wait whilst a gate was opened he bunny hopped and turned away. I then turned him back to face the gate and he pawed the ground. So I am thinking it is him be a numpty and inpatice (sp) rather than pain etc

I do find when he starts to jig around and I think he could be about to hop/rear I panic and tense think this may have something to do with it
 
jesstickle said:
amymay, assuming the instructor knows the horse is not in pain (which could well be the case seeing as OP has not clarified whether he's been checked or not) what should she have done?

I must say in that situation I might have done the same thing. I'm curious now what other people think should be done with horses that rear.
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Apart from being inappropriate, smacking a horse between ears can be VERY dangerous - he might come down or you might get a 'rebound' and end up backwards on the floor. Rearing horse should be brought down, you could try turning for example, but the safest option is to not upset its balance - so lean forward and grab the neck. If you are fairly experienced and balanced on top, you can try smacking under belly as that will make the horse want to protect its 'undercarriage' and come down.
 
jrp204 said:
Assuming the horse is not in pain.

Is it acceptable to allow a horse to rear?
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Based on the OP- thats a big assumption.

Is it acceptable to allow a horse to rear? The chances are its the owner/rider thats caused it to rear in the first place (even unknowingly). The horse said no, for whatever reason and it got whipped! That is hardly good horsemanship.

The horse either isnt confident jumping, isnt balanced enough, cant balance the rider, or is in discomfort or pain. Whipping it isnt the answer! You need to train the horse and rider and remove the pain.
IF it really doesnt want to jump and stopped because it didnt want to do it- why is this naughty? Why does the rider have the right to beat it to jump? Should riders who dont want to jump be whipped to make them? If the rider wants to jump and the horse dosnt then get a different horse- dont bully and inflict pain on the horse that youve got to make it do something it doesnt want to do.

Equally, why is it acceptable for the instructor to hit this 5 year old horse between the ears?

I don't think it is.
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i totally agree. There is no need to whip any horse between the ears. It shows a lack of knowledge imo- using force and fear of pain instead of good riding to make a horse do what you want it to do :(
 
I'm a bit on the fence with this one! My boy will be 6 in a few months (where did the time go? :eek:) and agree that this is a 'toys out of the pram' age where they really start testing boundaries as they reach physical maturity.

Whilst I agree that all checks should be done as no horse should be made to work in pain, perhaps this is an issue that simply needs 'ridden through'. OP now states that all checks have been done and that she trusts instructor so perhaps it is a behavioural issue right enough?
 
To be honest, smacking a horse in these instances is fruitless. I am sure we've all done it (I certainly have) but actually it doesn't achieve and awful lot and does not help the situation.

Being that your horse is 6 I would say it's pretty much standard behaviour - they have got through the naive stage of pretty much doing anything asked and they get to 5/6 and start thinking a bit more. As far as the jumping is concerned it sounds very much like the horse is confused or is lacking confidence (or both). Not all horses 'love' jumping and will take you into a fence, some need a bit more riding. I do not know the standard of your riding and do not know the capabilities of your instructor but not every instructor is good at everything and it doesn't sound like your instructor tried any other option before resorting to smacking.

I would go back to the beginning, get a proper showjumpng instructor who maybe you can get recommendation from a friend on? and start building your horse's confidence back.

It is the same with the hacking, my sister's horse never 'got' gates and sometimes would have a bit of a 'strop' but it's a case of being firm but fair. Don't punish the horse for being naughty but do praise him when and if he stands still. By all means, when your horse is older and you know his behaviours better you know when they are being a bit of a monkey and pushing you a bit and when they're genuinely unsure but a horse of this age gets confidence from its rider.

We previously had a horse who developed a serious vice of rearing when put under pressure, we saw him as a 'bad' horse. The behaviour started at about 5 or 6 yo and got worse. Looking back and knowing what we know now we would have approached him differently as it was all down to confidence (or lack of) he was not a nasty, naughty or bolshy horse but unfortunately at that time we didn't fully appreciate what was really wrong and we sold him on to a less pressurised career (he was fine for normal hacking/hunting etc).

So, basically you want to get him past this behaviour blip before it turns into a problem and I don't think forcing or beating him over fences is the answer.
 
So if a horse rears (assuming I'm too slow to catch it and turn a circle before it goes up, maybe because I don't know it, maybe because I'm having a slow day) I'm to sit on it and let it do it and then do what when it comes back down? Ride it forwards positively and try not to let it go up again. What if it does?
 
Feet, saddle?

OK, just to stop and look - well mine does that if suprised (do you really want me to jump that?) But to rear as well. What were you asking him to do. Needs more investigation.
 
Thank you to all for your replies, my instructor is BHSAI and rides to 1 star level.

We have had problems with jumping for a while so every time he used to stop we dropped poles to the ground etc The rearing after he has stopped is a new trick

I do think it is a toys from pram moment and I will ride him through it I love this horse to much to " give up" .

I am going to ride latter when there are people at the yard ( I hacked for 15 mins this am in walk to get a baby out) I have put 3 poles with wings at the end out in the sandschooland will go back to walking and trotting over them to start with then put one pole up if he has been good, if not I will ride through it and finish on a good note.

I'm not sure if smacking him anywhere is the answer but it seems if you keep them moving they are less lightly to rear so my plan is that if he stops I kick him to move in any direction and make go forwards over pole or jump the easy way to go rather than a dig in ribs and having to move at speed!

Fingers crossed, I have also dropped his feed in case its spring grass hitting and to much energy but again I will watch his weight to make sure he is not dropping off
 
jesstickle said:
I'm curious now what other people think should be done with horses that rear.
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Dont push the horse to the point of rearing in the first place. Ok, so you make a mistake and the horse rears once- well after that you should not ask the horse to do something to the point of it rearing again. If the horse is rearing youve gone too far with your 'ask' of the horse.

By responding to the rear you are not training the horse not to rear- you are ignoring why it is rearing in the first place and that is what needs sorting out first.


The rear is the horse communicating to the rider that it cant/wont do something. Why wont it/cant it?
Dont create the rear in the first place and it wont need dealing with!

Just whipping it is ignoring the horse trying to communicate (which can make the horse worse) and ignoring that it may have been the rider that caused the horse to do it in the first place.
 
sherbet said:
We have had problems with jumping for a while so every time he used to stop we dropped poles to the ground etc The rearing after he has stopped is a new trick
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Perhaps he's telling you, in that case, that jumping is simply not his 'thing'. Or there is a problem that you haven't picked up.
 
teddyt said:
Dont push the horse to the point of rearing in the first place. Ok, so you make a mistake and the horse rears once- well after that you should not ask the horse to do something to the point of it rearing again. If the horse is rearing youve gone too far with your 'ask' of the horse.
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that makes sense. It always seems like such an extreme reaction. I guess it probably is :)
 
I'd ease of with the hole jumping thing for a while (if it was me).

You said you've had problems before the rearing started, which if you look at it, now has resulted in the rearing.

He's a 6 year old horse at the end of the day, some horses can cope very well with jumping and various tasks at this age, others don't and find the pressure of jumping/lessons etc all bit too much.

The rearing could develop into further problems, napping, ducking out (where jumps are) rushing fences....not loading due to to fear of competitons, sounds silly but if its not a phyical problem, then it's a mental one.

Obviously rearing is dangerous and yes they do need a reminder what not acceptable, but what you have put in your post, this rearing is the horse telling you something, until you listen and regonise what he's trying to tell you, you could be stiring up more further down the line, for the sake of easing off a touch.
 
I agree with Kenzo that you should back off the whole jumping thing, take the pressure off and give him a chance to mature.

Id go back to trotting poles, canter poles, letting him know that poles are nothing to worry about and are easy. Obviously i havnt seen you riding but a lot of people i see that have problems jumping come from them tensing up and pushing the horse too hard at the fence causing the horse to make a big deal about the jump in their head and not want to jump. Obviously if you are worried he is going to stop you will push him harder to the fence even if you dont realise it.
 
He is panicking, If he stops at a fence and you hit him, the next time he is unsure and stops, he expects the smack, and will either bolt left or right, or, if you hold him straight, rear. Lower the jumps as you said. I agree with Kenzo and Gingernut.
Do not ask him to jump from halt, it can be very unnerving for a young, or old horse and dangerous.
Turn away after the stop calmly, then IN TROT, smack him as you turn him on a half circle back toward the fence, make sure he is moving forward and then re-present at the jump from trot, it is far harder for a horse to stop dead from trot then canter due to the gait sequence.
You must keep your hands soft but firm and think of a channel from your legs through your hands to his bit and forward.
Personally I would get a good event or showjump trainer in to give you and your trainer some more pointers.
He must be told that it is not acceptable, but in a calm and correct manner. Hitting him about the head will only cause head shy behaviour and a lack of trust. This should only be used in extreme circumstances.
If a horse is going up and you fear it may go too far you must turn it, so it doesn't fall backward.
If it is a protest rear then incline forward, but be careful it doesn't hit you in the face, reins forward and open a rein to turn it round and as soon as possible ride forward. it must go in front of your leg asap. Use your voice if this helps.
Get in a very experienced good trainer and get a plan of action for this. Don't ignore it. Well done to your trainer to confront the situation, but it is far more preferable if you can avoid it and learn to feel what is coming and how to ride out of it.
Best of luck
 
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UPDATE NO 2 - sorry turned into along one

Yesterday I went back to the school put 3 poles on the ground with wings at the end, my instrctor was riding her horse at the same time.

He napped towards her horse with a mini bunny hop which I rode through and got him to go where I wanted not where he wanted. Round one to me!!

Then we trotted the poles 20/30 times till this became very boring for us both. Then one side went up to 1st hole and we trotted over that no problem did this 10/15 times. Then it went up to a 1st hole cross still with 2 poles leading into jump and I came up to 1st jump and he stopped. I just sat very still took a deep breath and realised all contack on my reins and he just stood. So whilst not good that he stopped he did not rear which was my panic point!

My instructor said I dropped him after the 1st pole it was as if I thought he would go as we had got over 1st pole. So 2nd time in I held my contact more than I would do normal and I will be hounest I pony clubbed kicked till we where over. I then just keept on coming and all was good.

Had a lesson today just flat as out to dressage on sun and all was good best he has ridden for a while so with any luck toys are back in the pram and I will push him as much as It hink he can handle. But will try to hack more and give his brain a break.
 
sherbet said:
Then we trotted the poles 20/30 times till this became very boring for us both. Then one side went up to 1st hole and we trotted over that no problem did this 10/15 times. Then it went up to a 1st hole cross still with 2 poles leading into jump and I came up to 1st jump and he stopped.
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Maybe he gets fed up? I don't know your horse and obviously can't judge but if did trotting poles 20 to 30 times and then the same jump 10 to 15 times over I think quite a lot of horses might get a bit fed up, specially a young horse, just my first intial though when I read this, I'm in no way judgeing your instructor or your training methods however, but I do agree even more so with everyone that has suggested, perhaps take the foot of the gass a bit.

Hope it all sorts out though.:)
 
Just a little suggestion here - quite often youngsters or not very confident horses find it easier to jump a single rail rather than a crosspole, they seem to find the 'narrow' space intimidating:)
 
Martlin could be right, but I think your youngster, doesn't like jumping all that much at the moment and it could be you are pushing him a little to hard in the direction he's not happy with at the moment. Old saying 1 step forward 3 steps back. And hitting a horse between the ears are a NO!NO! as your instructor should know and she should be a shamed and I'm surprised she's qualified.:(:(:(
 
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