Stopping this behaviour ASAP

asbo

asbo

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Our new 6 month old Malamute has a few unwanted behaviour issues that we need to sort out. I understand he has only been here 24 hours, but ground rules need to be set and he needs to learn he is bottom of our pack, and not top like he was in his last home.

He doesn't crate, he has scars on his nose from when his last owners tried this. We were told he sleeps in the kitchen, but when left in ours last night he howled/destroyed the stair gate and has put huge scratches in the door, resulting in me sleeping downstairs last night as it was too late to do much, plus, we do not want dogs sleeping in our room, its a place the cats are safe and have their own space.
Another issue is food, which again links to the kitchen in a way. He will try to snatch food out your hand/plate, he tried to grab the children's dinner as I put it in the over last night!! We put him in the kitchen so we could eat and again, even though he can see us he howled/attacked the gate.
His behaviour has scared my little boy as if he runs, Nanuq try's to jump on him, so I am reluctant to let him out the kitchen when my little one is in the living room playing. I wouldn't ever leave them alone, but I don't want him scared of a dog living in his home, and I don't want a dog to feel trapped and unhappy in our home.

Any ideas on how to deal with his would be fantastic.
 
My first thought was you need a close barred crate but I don't think anyone is making them now :( Maybe an airline crate so he can't injure himself. Then the crate becomes his den, his feeding space, the place where all treats go. He needs to wear a collar and a cut off lead in the house so you can take control without actually grabbing him.
 
Right, first and foremost, I am not a trainer/behaviourist. There are people far more knowledgeable than me on here; I just know mals.

Someone, possibly Cayla, has produced a fantastic crating guide!

He sounds very unsettled - mals are incredibly sensitive dogs, love routine and get very upset over change.
The whole moving thing will upset him a huge amount.

Firstly read the Nothing in Life is Free http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm - this method works very well with mals.

Never try and dominate a mal al la Cesar Milan - alpha rolls etc will just freak him out, and IMO is a very outdated way of thinking.

Right, crate training is very important (and useful). Never put him in there as a punishment and always reward him for going in. Maybe try feeding him in there and that way he'll associate it with food. Give him indestructible chew toys in there to keep him happy - Stag horn chews are brilliant - just make sure you get the largest size you can!
Start off with short but sweet sessions with the door open so he feels he can come and go, and isn't trapped. Do this lots of times a day and make a game of it.

He will destroy things - he is a mal, after all, and a pup at that. Hence why crates are so useful. You can get extra tall stair gates or even solid ones, so he can still hear you but can't get to you. Maybe leave a radio on for him. Bitter Bite on objects will help, or use cheap perfume or even washing up liquid on table legs etc.

He's obviously very anxious not to be left alone. I've never had experience of this with a dog so don't feel able to advise on this issue. But I will say, try not to give in and let him train you. We've spent many a night with pillows over our heads trying to ignore the howling when we've had pups.

Food is a big issue with mals - teach him to sit before you feed him, play with him or even put on his lead. Remember NILIF! He has to earn his treats, but don't tease him and teach your kids not to tease too.
Try to save the word 'no' for extra bad things and teach him to respond to a softer sound; I find an 'ah ah ah' like you say to naughty kids works well with every dog I've met.

Leave him to eat his food in peace so he doesn't feel threatened - as I said, feed him in his crate so it becomes his 'safe place'.

With your son, I know it's difficult but don't let him run around the dog - remember their prey drive! They will chase and it becomes fun. When he jumps up, don't reward him with a 'hands on' push away, but turn your back, wait for him to settle, or better still for him to sit, then turn back and fuss him. Turn away the moment he jumps up again. That way you are rewarding the behaviour you actually want.


Someone much better qualified to answer this particular issue will be along shortly, I'm sure.
 
What a great response from the previous posters, very useful info. There must be a Mal club, and they probably have a behaviourist who could advise, or indeed, Battersea Dogs Home offer behaviour al support, and I would think they are familiar with the breed.
Good luck. If you need an airline type crate, why not contact someone who transports dogs, like Jets4pets to see if they have a suitable crate you could buy?
 
Great advice from Misterjay.

You must stop it mechanically/physically before you do anything.
He will not snatch food **if there is no way of him physically getting to the food and he is in a place where he cannot access the food or the table**

Try an airline crate as mentioned (Varikennel is the main brand) and introduce it slowly and as mentioned make him believe that it is an excellent place to be. I got mine from a boarding kennel which handles quarantine business as they have hundreds of the things sitting around.

You might also look at a dog run for outside although with a Mal it will need to be a roofed one and set on concrete.
There are companies who can come out and install a flat pack job very quickly.

Your son needs to stay calm and not act like 'prey' - dogs like to chase small, squeaky, fast moving things so he needs to just ignore the behaviour.
I have a permanent blemish on my nose from when I was high-fived in the face by our old bitch when she was a youngster - she turned out to be a dog I wish I could have cloned!!
I used to hate her and hid on top of the sofa from her.

Also look into a book called The Culture Clash by Jane Donaldson. I find it very fluffy and I am not afraid of getting after a dog for unwanted behaviour but it explains very well how they think and their motivations and the reasons for their behaviour.

Second the advice of a house line so you are reaching calmly for a line and directing the dog physically/mechanically rather than grabbing a bit of the dog.

Agree with Misterjay re the feeding - my dog, although a different breed, is never just 'fed' he must do *something* for me before he gets his grub, he is in quite a heavy schedule of training right now and most of his feeding right now is coming from my pockets - he gets his dinner from a track, he gets his dinner for doing sit/stand/down/recall/heel etc.

I've been working with a lady who had a destructive screamer who had been banished to a garage, I did one session of hand feeding, she's bought a crate and a Kong and feeds him only by hand or in his crate and the difference was almost immediate.
 
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misterjay said:
Try to save the word 'no' for extra bad things and teach him to respond to a softer sound; I find an 'ah ah ah' like you say to naughty kids works well with every dog I've met.
Click to expand...

Firstly I not a qualified trainer / behaviourist but with 3 rescues each with problem behaviour and having spent lots of money on sessions with a good trainer - here are some things that worked with me.

One of mine is very very greedy and used to pinch anything. Bond with your new dog by spending time teaching a good sit and wait and down. Training should be fun, clear your head of all the chaos he has caused before starting. I use a clicker but you don't have to. It sounds like he has had no training, so he is not so much illmannered just no manners! If he's sensitive to voice like mine, MisterJay is right in that an 'ah' is sufficient to interrupt bad behaviour. leave the door of crate open and throw food in there when you walk past during the day. make sure its dark and has a blanket over it so he doesn't feel threatened and caged. try putting him in the cage and just sitting nearby. he will get used to it and grow to love it if it associates nice things with it.

For safetys sake, I would separate your son and mal for the time being. a new home and new people is alot to process! Keeping them separate or in controlled environments gives you time to bond and train, and 3/4 10min training sessions with you, your son, and nanuq is likely to be far more productive.

finally, i'd worry less about pack / hierarchies etc. yes dogs are dogs and have a place below humans. but from a training point of view i dont think you have to worry about that at all, it sounds as though nanuq is more nervous than over confident etc.
 
Just a quick thank you, will do a proper post late when I get 5 mins, the issue with my little boy is he is only 2 so not easy to get him to understand xx
 
The only thing I would add to the excellent advice given is to ask the breeder for help. Presumably as they have taken him back from previous owner they are responsible, and will have experience of the breed so should hopefully be able to point you in the right direction. Definitely pm Cayla for her crate guide, it has some great advice.
 
Lots of good advice here. Only adding that you might want to teach your son to do a 'safe tree' and 'safe stone' as described by http://www2.the-kennel-club.org.uk/sashi_code/

I taught my son this after seeing it at a Discover dogs display and my then two,year old copying him. It gave him lots of confidence around our dogs and they really responded well - the 'stone' was never needed but we taught him it anyway. Not sure if the link mentions it but its simply a 'tuck in' head and arms should they get knocked over of worse.
 
Would I have re homed a six month old Malamute while I also had a two year old toddler?
no is the short answer!
The dog will consider your lad a puppy also, you need to supervise them at all times
and never leave your son alone with the dog.
Sorry to sound negative but you will have your work cut out.
The truth is your lad won't appreciate anything about dogs and the dog with his natural exuberance
could be an issue.
 
Its quite typical(new environment behaviour) no matter the breed they all need a set routine and boundaries from the moment u have that lead (excellent post from misterjay) all u mention is workable with time and patience, he is just a baby and easy to mould.....i suspect the crate was never introduced to him positively, so go back to basics and teach him all you wish to.....my mams mal will crawl into any open crate, she will literally squish other dogs to get in with them. He is confused and just needs guidance. I think my puppy guide inc crate guide could help you immensely along with the advice already given.
 
I'm staggered at the range of advice on this thread, and equally staggered that anyone's suggested any form of remedial action.

The OP, I'm sure with the best of intentions, but from a position of apparent inexperience;
Has taken on a puppy which "wont" crate, at a very young age is quite happy to self harm, which would indicate that pain or discomfort are of no consequence.
Has learned no boundaries,
Has the manners of a pack animal that's had no leader, and no discipline, and as the OP has to come on here for advice, presumably she's not experienced enough to hand out the necessary control.
Is showing an alarming interest in a small child, to the point where they can't be in the same room together, and
People are suggesting that a toddler is taught how to react!
Suggesting that a long line, or a close boarded gate, or a cage, or anything other than a professional handler's attention be focused on the dog.

Those who are offering advice seem to have overlooked the fact that a puppy has already got the better of its new owner. They've also overlooked the fact that such a puppy, even though it's of a tender age, is in a house with a very small child. The only thing which I've not yet read is that the OP tries Clicker Training, or treats perhaps. Lunacy.

asbo, this isn't an attack upon you, though it may sound it, and I realise that you're probably out of your depth, but the advice that I would give you is that you either hand your child over to someone else whilst you concentrate on the dog, or vice versa. I'd be amazed at the breeder, if they knew your domestic situation, handing this particular puppy over to you. You've chosen a breed which are generally of a less than amenable nature (for generations they've never needed it), you've chosen an individual which appears to have an already established and intense opinion of itself, and whilst you may be prepared to have this thing wreck your house, for the safety of your small child, that puppy should be back to the breeder, by tonight.

Alec.
 
How much exercise is he getting and what are you feeding? I never feed snacks or use the food treat method. But guess what I am going on a clicker training course tomorrow. Why? Because I want to see what it's about.
 
Alec Swan said:
I'm staggered at the range of advice on this thread, and equally staggered that anyone's suggested any form of remedial action.

The OP, I'm sure with the best of intentions, but from a position of apparent inexperience;
Has taken on a puppy which "wont" crate, at a very young age is quite happy to self harm, which would indicate that pain or discomfort are of no consequence.
Has learned no boundaries,
Has the manners of a pack animal that's had no leader, and no discipline, and as the OP has to come on here for advice, presumably she's not experienced enough to hand out the necessary control.
Is showing an alarming interest in a small child, to the point where they can't be in the same room together, and
People are suggesting that a toddler is taught how to react!
Suggesting that a long line, or a close boarded gate, or a cage, or anything other than a professional handler's attention be focused on the dog.

Those who are offering advice seem to have overlooked the fact that a puppy has already got the better of its new owner. They've also overlooked the fact that such a puppy, even though it's of a tender age, is in a house with a very small child. The only thing which I've not yet read is that the OP tries Clicker Training, or treats perhaps. Lunacy.

asbo, this isn't an attack upon you, though it may sound it, and I realise that you're probably out of your depth, but the advice that I would give you is that you either hand your child over to someone else whilst you concentrate on the dog, or vice versa. I'd be amazed at the breeder, if they knew your domestic situation, handing this particular puppy over to you. You've chosen a breed which are generally of a less than amenable nature (for generations they've never needed it), you've chosen an individual which appears to have an already established and intense opinion of itself, and whilst you may be prepared to have this thing wreck your house, for the safety of your small child, that puppy should be back to the breeder, by tonight.

Alec.
Click to expand...

Alec,
I think you and I are saying/suggesting the same thing.
I agree that it was probably irresponsible for the breeder to allow such a dog to go live in an environment
as described.
I'll say it again, suitability of breed is as important as the particular dogs personality.
An alaskan Malamute is a very serious breed to take on, yes they look very attractive and are impressive
animals but they need proper handling and a suitable environment if problems are to be avoided.
Truth is some breeders are less than concerned than they should be about where their puppies end up.

Any breeder is responsible for puppies they produce, not just for the first eight weeks of their lives
but for the duration of their lives!
Far too many people breed dogs and often for the wrong reasons.
 
A brief search shows that the dog has not been rehomed from the breeder, but from the people who originally bought him from the breeder.

I freely admit I'm not a doggy person, I'm not that "kiddy centred" either but this seems like a crazy mix. OP I admire your willingness to ask for help to deal with the problems but I honestly think you should send the dog to the breeder TODAY. Regardless of whether you have experience with this type of dog and behaviour or not, your two year old son certainly does not.
 
Alec Swan said:
I'm staggered at the range of advice on this thread, and equally staggered that anyone's suggested any form of remedial action.

The OP, I'm sure with the best of intentions, but from a position of apparent inexperience;
Has taken on a puppy which "wont" crate, at a very young age is quite happy to self harm, which would indicate that pain or discomfort are of no consequence.
Has learned no boundaries,
Has the manners of a pack animal that's had no leader, and no discipline, and as the OP has to come on here for advice, presumably she's not experienced enough to hand out the necessary control.
Is showing an alarming interest in a small child, to the point where they can't be in the same room together, and
People are suggesting that a toddler is taught how to react!
Suggesting that a long line, or a close boarded gate, or a cage, or anything other than a professional handler's attention be focused on the dog.

Those who are offering advice seem to have overlooked the fact that a puppy has already got the better of its new owner. They've also overlooked the fact that such a puppy, even though it's of a tender age, is in a house with a very small child. The only thing which I've not yet read is that the OP tries Clicker Training, or treats perhaps. Lunacy.

asbo, this isn't an attack upon you, though it may sound it, and I realise that you're probably out of your depth, but the advice that I would give you is that you either hand your child over to someone else whilst you concentrate on the dog, or vice versa. I'd be amazed at the breeder, if they knew your domestic situation, handing this particular puppy over to you. You've chosen a breed which are generally of a less than amenable nature (for generations they've never needed it), you've chosen an individual which appears to have an already established and intense opinion of itself, and whilst you may be prepared to have this thing wreck your house, for the safety of your small child, that puppy should be back to the breeder, by tonight.

Alec.
Click to expand...

Oh Alec I LOVE your posts! I would have bet a bonio that you'd write a post like this! I agree that back to breeder is a good idea if she'll take it. I agree with lots of your advice, especially regarding the young child. Only thing I'd question the relevance of is your comment regarding the dog already having got the better of the new owner. Im sure we've all had to scratch our head on the best way to outsmart behaviour, and even had moments where you think 'oh no!ive bitten off more than I can chew with this dog! - why didn't i choose a lab?'. OP has a chance to up her game and stamp out the behaviour - if she has the time, etc.
 
The dog is there in the house NOW and the OP has asked for advice 'ASAP'. She is free, as everyone is, to take or leave it. All I have done is suggested she use a physical/mechanical means to remove the dog from the situation and contain it away from her son/food and retracted advice about her son's behaviour when I realised how young he was.
In an other thread, I have suggested other things that she might try down the road a little.

Also I don't do 'treat training' - I do feeding the dog's normal food from the hand/pocket and only when the dog is working for the food. If the dog goes hungry, so be it. That's hardly 'treating' the dog, to me, it's just feeding the same food from your hand instead of tipping it into a bowl on the ground.
 
We have done a good few yr of research on Mals/spent time with them before deciding to get one, sadly, this boy is not for us, he was 100% fine the first day we had him, yesterday he went for my son 4 times, we had a soft muzzle on him after the first time but he still managed to bruise his face,growled at my daughter and bit my husband last night, why? Because they all came near me!
Today while I had him in the garden I didn't hear my nephew and SIL arrive, he tried to grab my 4 yr old nephew twice before I could split them up. He has issues way beyond anything I can deal with, I have spent the last 24 hours upset thinking its something I have done, I have spoken to the last owner and the breeder, neither will have him back, hes on the urgent list to be rehomed with someone with experience and no children. He is a amazingly loving boy, I have only had him 48 hours but I am heartbroken this has happened as I think he will be a perfect family member when he knows his bounderies.
Feel free to slate anything I have done, but right now, my children come first.
 
Sorry it hasn't worked out for you - I don't think anyone will slate you, that behaviour sounds extreme and in such a young dog, quite unhealthy :(

Shocking that the breeder will not take him back, IMO, and whoever takes him on will have to be very, very careful.
 
He is being rehomed via MM and only with someone who can help him and has full info, they are vetted etc first, I want him to go to someone who can give him the chance to become a member of the family, I can not risk my children.
 
Of course you can't Asbo, he's a big dog and could potentially badly hurt someone. Half of me would have him at the vet's, yesterday :( and the other half says he's only six months old and can be fixed. No one is in a position to judge you, it's not your fault x
 
CaveCanem said:
Of course you can't Asbo, he's a big dog and could potentially badly hurt someone. Half of me would have him at the vet's, yesterday :( and the other half says he's only six months old and can be fixed. No one is in a position to judge you, it's not your fault x
Click to expand...

Thank you, I really do want whats best for him and we are not, I hate the idea of him being passed around and I am trying t do everything I can to make sure he doesn't x
 
sorry he has to go but fully understand why, i would not be rehoming a dog that has gone for so many people including kids in such a short space of time especially at such a young age, he would be going to the vets on a one way visit. where is he till he is rehomed?
 
On advice of the rehoming ppl he is currently in the crate, hes very unhappy but I have to keep him somewhere he is away from the children. They have somewhere for him to go, just sorting a transport run as I am in Scotland and he would be going to England.
 
thats not a nice position to be in, it must be tough to still have him in the house. rescue places taking on dogs like this is what puts me of taking on rescue dogs, my kids are 14 and 16yrs but I still would not have an aggressive dog in the house, and in your shoes I could not live with the fact that he may well bite again and really do some damage and in the future i may hear that he has hurt someone because i passed a known aggressive dog on.

a good friend had a baby 18months ago and she had a small terrier that had been her baby for 6 yrs, the dog was very unhappy with the baby in the house (it was a timid sharp nippy dog always had been and it had never been addressed), the dog was given no preparation for the baby coming despite advice given. the dog nipped the husband 4 or 5times after the baby was born and was very distressed by the changes in the house when baby arrived. we had discussed re-homing, pts and re training and nothing was done until the day the dog went for the owners face when the 6 week old baby was on her lap. then it was decided enough was enough, it was too much of a risk to re-home i took the dog to the vets the next morning to be put to sleep, the dog did not know it was being pts, it was done by compassionate kind people, the dog does not live its life stressed, the dog is no longer a risk to anyone and the house is now relaxed and stress free too with no worry about hearing that the dog has injured someone or been neglected or ill treated.

sorry for the essay but i really dont agree with passing on aggressive dogs-be the first to do something that will secure this dogs future
 
Whilst I may well have been your most outspoken critic, there'll certainly be no slating from here, the opposite in fact. I admire your courage, and applaud your ability, in being be able to post as you just have. It can't have been easy.

You are making the right decision, there's no question of that, but a further suggestion would be that the most experienced at getting inside your dog's head, would wonder at the point of doing so, and would question what they would be left with. If your puppy, and that's what he is, is passed on to yet another (and let's face it, who really wants to take on such a liability), then is he going to be one of the many who will end up on an eventual one way journey to a vet, or worse? When you hand him over to his third owner, whilst he's still a puppy, and that's leaving his breeder to one side, then when you part with him, you will lose the control over his destiny which you now have.

Such bonding and such aggression, in such a young dog, would lead me to think that PTS is the kindest answer for him. The previous owners will almost certainly have been aware of his problems, and from what you say, you've been taken for a ride. I suspect that in your shoes my first port of call would be the breeder. They will deny all responsibility, of course, but if they are honourable, they will at least refund your payment.

Were the dog a GSD and even with his issues, then I'd suggest that there are plenty who would take him on in the hope of ironing out his problems and ending up with a usable dog. The problem, it seems to me, is that even with his issues under control, where is his future? How ever competent his next owner is, with problems such as his, the best is that they can be controlled. Cured is another matter, and with such a wilful and selfish and self centred streak, such animals always seem to bring misery, where ever they go.

I'm genuinely sorry that you've had such an upsetting experience, and again, I admire your honesty and your acceptance of your predicament.

I hope and pray that others can learn from your experience.

Alec.
 
twiggy2 said:
thats not a nice position to be in, it must be tough to still have him in the house. rescue places taking on dogs like this is what puts me of taking on rescue dogs, my kids are 14 and 16yrs but I still would not have an aggressive dog in the house, and in your shoes I could not live with the fact that he may well bite again and really do some damage and in the future i may hear that he has hurt someone because i passed a known aggressive dog on.

a good friend had a baby 18months ago and she had a small terrier that had been her baby for 6 yrs, the dog was very unhappy with the baby in the house (it was a timid sharp nippy dog always had been and it had never been addressed), the dog was given no preparation for the baby coming despite advice given. the dog nipped the husband 4 or 5times after the baby was born and was very distressed by the changes in the house when baby arrived. we had discussed re-homing, pts and re training and nothing was done until the day the dog went for the owners face when the 6 week old baby was on her lap. then it was decided enough was enough, it was too much of a risk to re-home i took the dog to the vets the next morning to be put to sleep, the dog did not know it was being pts, it was done by compassionate kind people, the dog does not live its life stressed, the dog is no longer a risk to anyone and the house is now relaxed and stress free too with no worry about hearing that the dog has injured someone or been neglected or ill treated.

sorry for the essay but i really dont agree with passing on aggressive dogs-be the first to do something that will secure this dogs future
Click to expand...

The issues Nanuq have can and will be sorted out, just not by me. I am 100% the home he is going to will be a home for life, they have other Mals and Huskies who have had issues and they have helped them. They do not pass their dogs on and I know he will not be in a situation where this can happen again.
 
Oh hon, I am so sorry this hasn't worked out for you, your family and the dog.
No one will slate you; you've done the only thing you could. You have to put your children first, and no one would argue with that.
I'm appalled that the breeder won't take him back - but it sounds like you're doing everything you can to ensure that he's okay. I must admit to once again agreeing with CC, half of me thinks a trip to the vets is in order, the other half says he's only young and insecure, and can be turned around.

A hard decision, and if you need to talk, you know where I am xxx

Good luck Nanuq xxx
 
Thank you Alec. If I wasn't 100% happy that this home would be a forever until the end home, he wouldn't be going. The lady who is sorting this has been fantastic, the home hes going to will not pass him on, I am 100% sure this is the right choice for him and this will be the making of him.

The breeder is not in a position to have him back with a small grandchild currently living in her home, his last owners will no doubt not refund me any of the £300 I paid them for him, the £200 we have spent on food/crate etc is our loss to bare. Money was never an issue in this, would have been nice to have been offered even a small amount back, but that money is long gone I feel, when I contacted them about his behaviour all the nice kissy messages stopped and blunt ones came instead. But, I am doing what I can for Nanuq, I am losing out even more money as I am paying what I can to help towards fuel costs to get him to this new home.

Thanks for all your help MJ xxx
 
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