Stopwatches and BE XC

Mike007

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I am not a competitor ,but someone who has a direct interest in the safety of a rider. I am extremely concerned that the tightening up on xc times will affect safety. My rider, having been jocked from 4th to 6th place by one second xc now feels that timing is the way forward.My concern is that like using a mobile phone whilst driving, clock watching XC also detracts from focus and concentration.I would welcome opinions on this subject.
 

Horsemad12

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Completely disagree.

If they are thinking time without a stopwatch they are more likely to kick on blindly. With a stopwatch they know where they are and can ride accordingly.

If you are the type of person to risk life and limb for a place, you will do that with or without a stopwatch.
 

ihatework

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Completely disagree too.
Eventing is about a number of things that need to come together over a period of time. Your rider came 6th because 5 people scored better than them over the 3 phases that day.
Learning to ride XC is a massive skill, a stop watch can be a great assistance in that but more than that it boils down to training, balance a feel. If your rider things that the results of one little event mean they need a stopwatch and to go faster then this is not about the stopwatch, it's about the riders lack of education
 

Shay

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I can't think of a more safety conscious organisation than BE. I'm sure they thought long and hard before reviewing the riles and I am equally sure they will keep it under review.

Yes the stopwatch at lower levels is another thing to think about. But my experience from this year has been that you tend to forget about them rather than concentrate too much on them. Although we do not yet ride at higher levels those who do say that the jump from no stopwatch to stopwatch was worse than having gradually learned to use one through the grades.
 

MardyMare

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IME the people using stopwatches at the lower levels are using them to slow down .

I agree. I fenced judged yesterday and earlier on in the day and day before (myself included) there were loads with too fast penalties. (I have never been too fast so found this odd but I dont ride with a watch). Yesterday afternoon we saw rider after rider checking watches and trotting over the finish line.
 

Ahrena

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I used one yesterday for this reason.

My mare is young but bold (safely so though) xc and jumps out of her stride. This has led me to have too fast pens several times now so yesterday I wore a watch.
 

smja

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Stopwatches should first be used at home, to train the rider about how fast they are cantering. I mark out sections where I can canter, and know that if I get A to B in x time, then I'm travelling around y pace.

Someone using a stopwatch to slow down/trot over the finish line needs talking to, the point is to reduce your speed over the whole course not make last minute adjustments to avoid penalties. That does not indicate that the rider is capable of setting an appropriate speed for the majority of the course.
 

star

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I am loving having a stopwatch as it enables me to make a conscious decision to slow down over the entire course. He is naturally quick and needs little setting up at 100 level so we are always getting close to Novice speed which is now fast enough to get time faults. Knowing my minute markers enables me to attempt to just take the edge off his speed and ride a slightly steadier round for the entire XC. Really hope BE let us keep using them!
 

Ahrena

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I am loving having a stopwatch as it enables me to make a conscious decision to slow down over the entire course. He is naturally quick and needs little setting up at 100 level so we are always getting close to Novice speed which is now fast enough to get time faults. Knowing my minute markers enables me to attempt to just take the edge off his speed and ride a slightly steadier round for the entire XC. Really hope BE let us keep using them!


Do you use one of those wheel things to work out your minute markers?
 

philamena

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I agree. I fenced judged yesterday and earlier on in the day and day before (myself included) there were loads with too fast penalties. (I have never been too fast so found this odd but I dont ride with a watch). Yesterday afternoon we saw rider after rider checking watches and trotting over the finish line.

They should be penalised for deliberately slowing down so much towards the end. Were they?
 

Lexi_

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They should be penalised for deliberately slowing down so much towards the end. Were they?

Is there anything in the rules to cover that scenario? Perhaps the TD could have a word with them about unsafe riding but I'm not sure that slowing down breaks any rules as such.
 

spacefaer

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Back in the day, stopwatches were always used at one days, and were essential tools for the roads and tracks on the 3DEs.

When the lower level of pre novice was introduced, the much slower time allowed caught out a number of top riders who had a "novice" speed, "intermediate" speed and "advanced" speed canter built into their mindset. I remember seeing several of them pulling up and walking the last few hundred yards towards the finish line. The phenomenon didn't last for long - as the season went on, they got accustomed to the speed!
 

GinaGeo

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I dont know to be honest - it wasnt my jump but we could hear over the radio's the final jump person reporting in.
That was me! It was quite scary watching people trotting with absolutely no forward momentum over the last fence. Genuine horses for not grinding to a gradual halt or falling over them!

I did make sure they were reported on. Having spoken to someone who spent the previous day in control I know some were penalised for dangerous riding. But I don't know whether any such action was taken yesterday.

The scariest ones were the ones that didn't even look at the final two fences they were so concentrated on their watches. It was the lower classes that were guilty of it. I didn't witness such behaviour in the 100.
 

MardyMare

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That was me! It was quite scary watching people trotting with absolutely no forward momentum over the last fence. Genuine horses for not grinding to a gradual halt or falling over them!

I did make sure they were reported on. Having spoken to someone who spent the previous day in control I know some were penalised for dangerous riding. But I don't know whether any such action was taken yesterday.

The scariest ones were the ones that didn't even look at the final two fences they were so concentrated on their watches. It was the lower classes that were guilty of it. I didn't witness such behaviour in the 100.

Yeah we were up on hill and could see it happening. I dont think the timing was right I see someone has raised it on the BE forum. I heard a lot of people complain that they got TF time penalties and didnt think they were off pace and word got out and so the watches were used. I think the 100 class just took it steady anyway as the ground was so wet.
 

philamena

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Is there anything in the rules to cover that scenario? Perhaps the TD could have a word with them about unsafe riding but I'm not sure that slowing down breaks any rules as such.

It's considered to be potentially 'unacceptable conduct'. I'd say slowing to a trot is unacceptable. Even if the course has genuinely been incorrectly measured, or measured to unrealistically 'loose' lines, then proper use of the minute markers and stopwatch should allow you to adjust pace as you go along, unless there's a really big measuring fault solely between the last minute marker and the finish line...

Rule 5.9: Deliberately slowing down near the end of the cross country course to avoid time penalties may be unacceptable conduct.
 

PorkChop

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My teenage daughter used a stopwatch for the first time last weekend.

I hope they continue to allow them tbh, or if not increase the too fast time window again to what it was.

Some courses run fast and some courses the time is difficult to get even though they are run at the same speed.

I think as long as they are used in conjunction with minute markers they are another valuable skill in learning cross country pace.
 

Carefreegirl

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I missed out on a placing BE a couple of weeks ago due to 'to slow' time penalties. For a few moments I was really disappointed but then realised that I wouldn't of ridden her any differently if I had been wearing a stop watch. A couple of slippy corners I slowed down for and a couple of potential run out / stop at jumps so I slowed down rather than ride at our 'normal' speed. We had a rubbish season last year and I totally lost my confidence. I don't feel wearing a stop watch would work for me personally at this moment in time.

Another couple of good runs and it's something I may consider.
 
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