Strange rein contact? - Advice Needed

[Cloud9]

Sorry guys - I know wrong area but more people read New Lounge. My horse has always been a terrible leaner but he seems to ge getting worse and worse. I am quite a novice - can hold my own on my own horse but don't compete - just happy hack and started fun rides. I have had lessons and schoold but just don't enjoy it. Prefer to school as I hack - leg yielding down the lanes, walk to trot, halt using the trees as my dressage markers!!!However he is getting worse and worse. Due to trial and error I have found that if I hold reins in one hand,very relaxed and western style he is great. However as soon as I take the reins into to down he goes - he yanks against me. Even if the reins are washing lines - he immediately starts leaning heavily. As soon as i put the reins into one hand he is fine again. Yet I can hold rens quite short in one western stye and he does not lean. Tonight I hacked and really made him work (he does not do it in trot) and testing my theory -but it is getting so frustrating. I let him have head and held reins on the buckle - gradually taking in rein - but he is stil leaning. Its dangerous to ride so relaxed all the time - I like to feel like I have control.

How can he possibly know when I alter my contact -he is ridden in a vulcanite pelham so its not like a jointed snaffle where he could possibly feel the change in rein contact.

PLEASE HELP - ADVICE GRATEFULLY RECEIVED.

 

[Chestnuttymare]

when you say leaning, is he just looking to have no contact as in pulling the reins from you?
My mare used to be terrible for this, in fact she will still try it on. I always wore gloves, I bridged my reins then she is pulling against herself. or put my knuckles against her neck to stop her doing it and tell her NO! We have had a compromise, the last 1/4 mile of our hack, i do the 'home on the range' thing with the reins at the buckle. We had a canter yesterday just before we got home and she got to canter like this, fairs fair lol.

I know a lot of people use bits like a waterford as the can't really lean on that or something with rollers. I found she didn't try it so much with her myler. I now prefer to use an eggbut french link.

As for feeling the change, they are so sensitive you can get away with nothing.

 

[Cloud9]

Yes -I would say he is pulling the reins from me - I try to be strong and not let him get away with it - it he goes to lean I make him trot on a few strides or something to take his mind of it - but he just yanks me - I keep my hands still and really try not to fuss but it is so hard - but he leans down and down and stays down - however as soon as i put them in one hand - up he comes!!! Forgot my gloves tonight and don;t I know it - my fingers feel raw.......... I feel if i keep riding reins in one hand he has won and got his way - and he is making all the decisions. Luckily our lanes are quite quiet.

I have a waterford but sometime i wonder is it is too strong a bit for him - he is not strong on his own but gets very strong with more than one other horse. He is getting better on fun rides. but I suppose a bit is only as strong as the riders hands ie if he is being good the bit is fine but if it is strong then i use it. Would rather pull less on a stronger bit and feel like I have some control/brakes if you know what I mean.

I have struggled with this problems for years.

His teeth were done in November and I used to get him done every 6 months - not that he needed it but my dentist insists on it as it makes her job a bit easier!! I had his saddle checked in Feb.

 

[Rhandir]

Has he been ridden western prior to you owning him by any chance?

 

[Cloud9]

No not that i am aware of - I had him at about 3ish so i would hope not - believe it or not he is 11 now. However i would say he is worse in summer months too. I did not really ride much for firsr couple of years - he is my first horse and bought him when I was 30 so have no other experience. I suppose I was always weak with him and let him get away with it but now I am more experienced I realise he was taking the P.....!!

 

[ilovecobs]

Horses can only lean if they have something to lean on, giving and retaking reins can help to keep horses light in the hand. This being said it doesnt work for 100% of horses, iv found it very helpful having ridden a variety of horses e.g. friends horses, some well schooled, some with no real schooling.

 

[katie_and_toto]

A pelham will probably be encouraging him to put his head down because of the poll pressure. Try a waterford mouthpiece, maybe a loose-ring waterford?

 

[Chestnuttymare]

So does he do it with the waterford in?
If not, I would hack in it and try to get him out of the habit.

 

[Cloud9]

I can't remember to be really honest - will try it tomorrow and see if any difference.

So the main thing is then to give and retake the reins and reschool him out on my hacks. I only tried the waterford for a month or so and then a girl from the yard convinced me I rode him all wrong and I needed nothing more than a french link - he took off with me on the road - I lost my confidence and that was that - back to my pelham!!! I keep telling them he is stronger and sharper than he looks for a heavyweight cob.

 

[Enfys]

I had a mare that did something like you described, all checks had been done blah, blah, blah. In the end I took a good long look at things and put a hackamore on her, different horse immediately. She was a very go-ey horse but hunted for years safely in her hackamore. I do modify my hackamores, chop those ungainly nosebands off and replace them with pelham roundings (both of them and wrap with sheepskin) and I use a big, thick linked dressage curb chain instead of the leather curb.

I am not saying for one moment "Oh, THIS is the answer to your problems" but it could be worth a try. Even just as a break from the circle of lean, pull, lean, pull. There are so many different types of bitless that you may find one that suits your horse, have you got an enclosed area where you can try them out just to be on the safe side?

 

[daydreambeliever]

It sounds to me as if it is just a habbit you have both got into. Changing to what i would consider to be a stronger bit may deter him from pulling down for a short while but eventualy it will return. My horse will pull down too far when we are trying to take a contact in the school, we are working hard on getting him to go in a nice outline but we are both still learning, my RI tells me to sit up sraight with my elbows bent but soft, keep squeezing the reins like a sponge and when he pulls down too far to give him an extra squeeze with my legs. Its from your legs that they need to go forward into your hand and you just need to sit quietly and keep asking the same thing without getting cross and eventualy they will soften and accept the contact.

 

[Cloud9]

Got a round pen and can ride in my field. Also the area I am in is really not that busy so its not a problem to go a 15 min trip round the block to test one out I suppose. Could always get OH to accompany on his bike too. I do have a hackamore I bought when he had to have a wolf tooth out but think I only used it once!! Think its a shires english hackamore.

 

[the watcher]

The other thing to think about is your body position. It may be that when you have the reins in both hands you are not as relaxed in the saddle or leaning slightly more forward than when you have the reins in one hand, especially if you tend to carry your free hand on your leg as I do. I know I am always slightly more upright when riding one handed on a fairly loose rein.

Worth a check when you are experimenting with different bits

 

[Cloud9]

It sounds to me as if it is just a habbit you have both got into. Changing to what i would consider to be a stronger bit may deter him from pulling down for a short while but eventualy it will return. My horse will pull down too far when we are trying to take a contact in the school, we are working hard on getting him to go in a nice outline but we are both still learning, my RI tells me to sit up sraight with my elbows bent but soft, keep squeezing the reins like a sponge and when he pulls down too far to give him an extra squeeze with my legs. Its from your legs that they need to go forward into your hand and you just need to sit quietly and keep asking the same thing without getting cross and eventualy they will soften and accept the contact.

Thanks for this advice - will defintely give this a try. My horse is defintely front wheel drive which obviously makes things worse. I really do want to stop this habit. I feel maybe I am too weak.

 

[Cloud9]

The other thing to think about is your body position. It may be that when you have the reins in both hands you are not as relaxed in the saddle or leaning slightly more forward than when you have the reins in one hand, especially if you tend to carry your free hand on your leg as I do. I know I am always slightly more upright when riding one handed on a fairly loose rein.

Worth a check when you are experimenting with different bits

Great - am loving all these tips. Am making a mental check list for my hack in the morning.

 

[daydreambeliever]

Thanks for this advice - will defintely give this a try. My horse is defintely front wheel drive which obviously makes things worse. I really do want to stop this habit. I feel maybe I am too weak.

The reason i chose a forward going horse was because i thought i wouldnt need to use my legs RI has put me straight on that though

 

[dreamcometrue]

Are you using the Pelham with 2 reins? The curb rein should stop him pulling the reins from you.

 

[Chumsmum]

Hi

Lots of good advice

Just out of interest PM me your dentist details. I recently tried a different dentist and Chum needed quite a bit of work though I had him done every year - new dentist thought I might see a difference next time I rode him even though we only do very light hacks now and I did - no more snatching down on the reins..

I know you said you don't like lessons but I think a good instructor could see what he does and advise you? Mine is good and though Toby off games at the moment I know plenty of people who have lessons with her who wouldn't mind you watching if you wanted to come and meet her? Now you have wheels

Also we have a variety of bits if you want to borrow any

 

[Cloud9]

Hi

Lots of good advice

Just out of interest PM me your dentist details. I recently tried a different dentist and Chum needed quite a bit of work though I had him done every year - new dentist thought I might see a difference next time I rode him even though we only do very light hacks now and I did - no more snatching down on the reins..

I know you said you don't like lessons but I think a good instructor could see what he does and advise you? Mine is good and though Toby off games at the moment I know plenty of people who have lessons with her who wouldn't mind you watching if you wanted to come and meet her? Now you have wheels

Also we have a variety of bits if you want to borrow any

Thanks matey!! Will PM details. I realy do want a lesson so yes that would be great to watch. You know me though - I have no faith in my ability hence why I gave up my lessons. However now that i have driven myself I feel more confident to travel.

 

[Elsbells]

I had smiliar with my mare, she was either running around with her head in the air or leaning that hard on the bit that she wore away her nice KK!

I looked at my rideing and decided that although I have a good seat and can sit most anything, I had no finese and it was rubbish most of the time. I then asked a couple of people to watch me and to put me right.
I was leaning to far forward, so she was working on the fore and not engageing her rear. My stirrups were to long and I wasn't putting the same kind of effort in that I was expecting my mare to do.

I'm not saying that I'm now a fab rider, just that I'm a better one. I don't just school Els out on our hacks,(every day) but I school myself and she schools me too and I listen. She is a fantastic ride, she had so much to give and can work in a beautiful outline. The feeling is the best and we work together.

All tack is fitted correctly, she has comfort this and comfort that and I didn't realise the difference it made just by putting her saddle back a bit more, but it did. She's has a Myler bit in to, and she loves it. It takes me ages to tack up and the rest of the yard laugh at me as it's a bit of running joke, but she is obvously a lot more comfortable and our hacks are the best time of both our days, she comes trotting up from the bottom of the field and I think she looks forward to it.

I found that asking for help from friends was the best thing I could of done. They all have differing opinions and experiences, but all of them have been brilliant and helped me loads with my rideing.

The trouble is if your on the horse, you can't see what your doing from the ground. I'm not saying that's what you should do, I'm only saying, that combined with other issues, it's that, that has helped us the most and I'm so glad that I did.

 

[charmeroo]

To be honest I would have thought that rather than trying all sorts of bits it might be better to return to basics with a straight forward snaffle and have a few lessons with a good instructor who can assess you and your horse together. It may be that a stronger and stronger bit is the problem all along!!