strangles again - bordering on the ridiculous?

asommerville

asommerville

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Further to my last psot on strangles, we ahev had more outbreaks. the vet cant see any reason why the horses are catching it and has now said it could be down to grazing them in hand....so therefore they are catching it off the grass> Is it just me or is this grasping at straws....Can strangles actually live in grass. I feel like a muppet asking this question!!!!
 
If the affected horses are sharing anywhere with other horses they risk spreading the virus, so I hope they are not sharing grazing area. As far as I know the droplets or worse from the horses nostrils will hold the virus and thus spread it, this can travel by air or on clothing etc. However good the quarantine is it only takes on person to make a mistake and the virus will spread. I would not take an unaffected horse anywhere that may be contaminated, so would avoid grazing in hand for now.
 
hiya

the infected horses are all in quarentine and havent been over their stable doors so cant understand how they woudl get onto the particular grassy area that the vet says the now infected horses have caught it from.

i just thought after hearing that it would only survive in wet damp areas for a maximum of 14 dasy that to then say it can stay on grass out in the open is a bit grasping at straws. the only way i thought they could have got it was if people were stupid enough to empty their buckets onto that area - which tbh is a bit of a trek to carry a bucket....is all very weird!!
 
At our local horse charity there was strangles in the herd for years and years and no-one could get to the bottom of why. It transpired after scoping ( I think) that one of the horses, which had been there for years, was a shedder and had to be PTS to control the situation.

Every horse on the place was tested as far as I know. Maybe you should demand the same.
 
believe it or not they have all been tested all came back as clear apart from 2 who were thoguht to be fighting it, were gutteral pouch washed and then tested as negative and 3 weeks later we have this outbreak. Is very odd!!
 
Did every horse have gutteral pouch endoscopy done to rule out carrier status? Including the ones without symptoms because it sounds like you have a carrier hiding somewhere.
 
Strangles can live on the ground for many weeks and the bacteria can survive sub zero temperatures.

Do the infected horses have their own set of mucking out tools, and do they have a seperate muckheap?

If not, the bacteria can get onto the wheel of the barrow and if it is pushed to the muckheap, anyone else coming along with another barrow can pick up the bacteria and track it into a healthy horse's stable.

The bacteria can survive in cold water. If the troughs in the field used by horses that came down with the illness have not been disenfected with jeyes fluid or similar, those troughs can continue to infect other horses using them.

Hope that helps!
 
be positive said:
If the affected horses are sharing anywhere with other horses they risk spreading the virus, so I hope they are not sharing grazing area. As far as I know the droplets or worse from the horses nostrils will hold the virus and thus spread it, this can travel by air or on clothing etc. However good the quarantine is it only takes on person to make a mistake and the virus will spread. I would not take an unaffected horse anywhere that may be contaminated, so would avoid grazing in hand for now.
Click to expand...

Strangles is actually a bacteria and does not travel through the air like some viruses can.
It can only be caught by direct contact with pus or mucous and is usually spread through shared water troughs and poor infection control measures on the yard.

Theoretically a horse could catch strangles if it inhaled another horse's "sneeze" if it was in virtually direct contact, but this isn't likely.

I'm afraid your new cases are somehow coming into contact with infected matter, either still in shared grazing areas, or by people tracking it into their stables.
 
Monkers said:
Strangles can live on the ground for many weeks and the bacteria can survive sub zero temperatures.
Click to expand...

Strep equi is actually a pretty fragile bacterium...

Survival of Streptococcus equi on surfaces in an outdoor environment
J. Scott Weese, Capucine Jarlot, and Paul S. Morley
Department of Pathobiology, Ontario Veterinary College, University of Guelph

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2726026/ said:
Survival was short, ranging from < 1 to 3 d.
...
Outdoor survival of S. equi is poor, and prolonged quarantine of outdoor areas, particularly areas exposed to the sun, is probably unnecessary.
Click to expand...

This study didn't look at survival in water, which may well be longer but does not paint the picture of bacterium that can survive for many weeks.

edit: full study is here - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2726026/pdf/cvj_09_968.pdf
 
I suspect much of the problem your yard is experiencing is down to management OP.

Hope you're all able to get on top of it soon.
 
alsiola said:
Strep equi is actually a pretty fragile bacterium...

Survival of Streptococcus equi on surfaces in an outdoor environment
J. Scott Weese, Capucine Jarlot, and Paul S. Morley
Department of Pathobiology, Ontario Veterinary College, University of Guelph



This study didn't look at survival in water, which may well be longer but does not paint the picture of bacterium that can survive for many weeks.

edit: full study is here - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2726026/pdf/cvj_09_968.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks for this link, I have seen this article before, but I have also seen slightly conflicting findings too. It seems that when the bacteria is isolated from mucosal matter, it dies very quickly. I have seen an article where bacteria was found to live for many weeks under ideal condions and within mucous/ pus. If I can find the article I will post it on here.
It certainly would seem a sensible precaution given the nature of strangles to keep horses off potentially infected pasture for as long as is practical.
 
be positive said:
If the affected horses are sharing anywhere with other horses they risk spreading the virus, so I hope they are not sharing grazing area. As far as I know the droplets or worse from the horses nostrils will hold the virus and thus spread it, this can travel by air or on clothing etc. However good the quarantine is it only takes on person to make a mistake and the virus will spread. I would not take an unaffected horse anywhere that may be contaminated, so would avoid grazing in hand for now.
Click to expand...
Strangles is a bacterium not a virus and therefore is not airborne other than if a horse snorts and the bacteria are on the water droplets.
The AHT has a specific strategy which should have been put in to operation when the disease was first identified.
That is to say, the horses are categorised as in a group:
High risk
Medium risk
Low risk
Groups should be isolated and no cross contamination allowed.
From then on the disease needs to be contained by extreme rigorous protocals
No mixing of horses or staff or handlers. All clothes to be washed at home, all vehicles to be wiped with anti bacterial tissues inside.
No shared forage
Individual haynets: haynets to be soaked in bleach every day,
all feed to be made up at home, no cross contamination no "meeting up"
Horses should be kept in their stables.
Main sources of cross contamination are:
haynets
Hay
Water
Water taps
Water hoses.
Feedrooms
People touching horses
I am quite at a loss as to what is happening on this yard, the rules should have been made clear weeks ago.
 
asommerville said:
believe it or not they have all been tested all came back as clear apart from 2 who were thoguht to be fighting it, were gutteral pouch washed and then tested as negative and 3 weeks later we have this outbreak. Is very odd!!
Click to expand...
Tested by what means?
Fighting it, what does this mean?
It is not odd if no one has put in to place an strategy, how on earth are horses grazing in hand when they should be isolated?
Are you in the UK?
 
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Also dogs going from place to place picking up contaminated material on their feet, likewise cats chickens, dogs also will seek out pus or mucus and eat it (yuc)
 
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