Strangles....can a yard owner be liable (Hypothetical question!)

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Dizzydusty

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As said in the title, this is a hypothetical question, we have strangles in our area, and its got me thinking.

If strangles is suspected and subsequently diagnosed, but yard owner fails to implement any of the usual recommended action, such as isolation, quarantine, disinfecting etc, and also knowingly allows other liveries on the yard to disregard the basic recommended action, could they be held liable for the cost of treating further sick horses? Could a livery be held liable if they knowingly deal with infected horses and then fail to carry out basic hygene rules and subsequently cause infection in other horses? Or is it a case of 'tough, your horse got sick'.

I know strangles is still a taboo subject and this post is not intended to cause argument...I was just thinking!
 
I've no idea if they are liable in any legal sense, I am not certain that strangles is reportable to Defra, but from a moral standpoint it would not sit well with me if a YO did behave that way. We as a community need to make it so that its completely unacceptable NOT to publicise that you have strangles on your yard so it is easier for people to come forward, but that's must my own humble opinion.
 
We have a similar situation near us at the moment. It's not reportable to DEFRA so they are not interested. It's so frustrating as we are avoiding hacking out close to them whilst we know full well they are hacking out even though they say they are not. Irresponsible -totally!!!! I really do think that there should have to be something official and yes, in answer to your question, I would be so cross if theYO was irresponsible enough to not take precautions to stop it spreading on the yard.
 
We had a case near to us and the YO let two infected horses move off the yard into our village. Poor people either side knew nothing until they found out by chance. Has left some very bad feelings all round the village. I think part of the problem is with the fact it is not notifiable.
 
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I think someone would have to take legal action against the YO to claim vet and other expenses for treatment.
It could prove an expensive gamble.
 
DWTeam said:
We had a case near to us and the YO let two infected horses move off the yard into our village.
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If the owners want to move horses there is nothing that the YO, vet or anyone else can do to stop them. The responsibility/fault there lies with the horse owner, not the YO.
 
Gamebird said:
If the owners want to move horses there is nothing that the YO, vet or anyone else can do to stop them. The responsibility/fault there lies with the horse owner, not the YO.
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this, and many people (myself included) do not agree with quarentineing (spelling sorry its late) and isolation for strangles and yes i have first hand experience(25yrs ago and 2yrs ago). i agree with no movement off the yard bur not keeping horses in. when a yard i worked on had an outbreak apart from no movement off the yard and the treatment of 1 pony with barstard strangles and the others that were unwell the yard continued as normal, turnout was as normal and the sick ones were turned out all day instead of a couple of hrs, the fresh air helps the breathing and the movement gets everything every thing (mucus etc) moving, the grass is good for for a sore throat and everything about turnout in good weather is good for the horses sense of well-being.

just to ad my equine vet still thinks it is in everyones best interest to treat it like this today
 
Jools2345 said:
this, and many people (myself included) do not agree with quarentineing (spelling sorry its late) and isolation for strangles and yes i have first hand experience(25yrs ago and 2yrs ago). i agree with no movement off the yard bur not keeping horses in. when a yard i worked on had an outbreak apart from no movement off the yard and the treatment of 1 pony with barstard strangles and the others that were unwell the yard continued as normal, turnout was as normal and the sick ones were turned out all day instead of a couple of hrs, the fresh air helps the breathing and the movement gets everything every thing (mucus etc) moving, the grass is good for for a sore throat and everything about turnout in good weather is good for the horses sense of well-being.

just to ad my equine vet still thinks it is in everyones best interest to treat it like this today
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This is what I would do ,no horse off the yard turn them all out.
 
So say for example your on a diy yard. The yard owner does nothing to implement any type of action, and there are livery owners who do the same (an ignorance is bliss type scenario). You do the best you can to prevent your horse getting ill, but they catch it anyway from individuals not following basic hygene rules. Your horse is one of the unlucky ones to get full blown strangles and is really ill for 3 or 4 weeks, or worse, your horse gets ******* strangles (which I have read can be fatal) and has to be put to sleep. Your faced with the vet bill.

Would you say the yard owner was liable then?? Knowing that there was every chance, had proper procedures been put in place and adhered to, that your horse wouldn't have got sick (or died)?
 
Dizzydusty said:
So say for example your on a diy yard. The yard owner does nothing to implement any type of action, and there are livery owners who do the same (an ignorance is bliss type scenario). You do the best you can to prevent your horse getting ill, but they catch it anyway from individuals not following basic hygene rules. Your horse is one of the unlucky ones to get full blown strangles and is really ill for 3 or 4 weeks, or worse, your horse gets ******* strangles (which I have read can be fatal) and has to be put to sleep. Your faced with the vet bill.

Would you say the yard owner was liable then?? Knowing that there was every chance, had proper procedures been put in place and adhered to, that your horse wouldn't have got sick (or died)?
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nope because i dont believe there is every chance that 'proper procedures' would prevent my horse getting it and i believe that 'proper procedures' just delay the spread of strangles. statistically strangles is as likely to be fatal for a horse as chicken pox for a child. most horse owners (and vets who are worried about being sued) in my opinion over-react to strangles. the pony I nursed with barstard strangles was a 34yr old in very poor condition, he came down with it 7 days after my boss purchased him at sales 25yr ago, he made a full recovery, he was on bute and poulticing to encourage the abcesses to burst outwardly. this is my opinion and i am aware others feel differently and when i compare it to chicken pox and am aware that nowadays people feel strangles can in some cases have a lasting effect but chicken pox can too and we dont quarantine humans
 
When my yard got it, we decided, as a DIY yard to turn them all out until 2 weeks after last new symptoms and then retest a random sample of horses ...
 
Dizzydusty said:
So say for example your on a diy yard. The yard owner does nothing to implement any type of action, and there are livery owners who do the same (an ignorance is bliss type scenario). You do the best you can to prevent your horse getting ill, but they catch it anyway from individuals not following basic hygene rules. Your horse is one of the unlucky ones to get full blown strangles and is really ill for 3 or 4 weeks, or worse, your horse gets ******* strangles (which I have read can be fatal) and has to be put to sleep. Your faced with the vet bill.

Would you say the yard owner was liable then?? Knowing that there was every chance, had proper procedures been put in place and adhered to, that your horse wouldn't have got sick (or died)?
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I would also say no for a slightly different reason. . . The whole point of being on a DIY yard for most people is so the YO does NOT have control over their horse's management and movements. You can't have it both ways. As Gamebird said, it's not up to the yard owner to control horses' activities, it's not even legal for them to do so. They (and vets) can suggest certain standards and practices, they can even ask people to leave (:)) if those standards are not upheld, but they can't force anyone to do anything. They are certainly not legally responsible if liveries choose to act irresponsibly or, as is more the case here, have differing standards. "Basic hygiene" may mean something quite different to you than to the horse owner next door. That's one of the risks that go with the benefits of being in this that situation.
 
If a yard have their own procedures internally, there isn't much that can be done however, my gripe is potentially infecting horses from other yards by hacking out and competing!.........
 
there is in my opinion so much over reaction to strangles! I can remember the days when a yard with strangles or equine flu for that matter would on spotting the first case do what ever they could to infect all the horses on the yard to get it over and done with rather than let it grind on for weeks!
 
popsdosh said:
there is in my opinion so much over reaction to strangles! I can remember the days when a yard with strangles or equine flu for that matter would on spotting the first case do what ever they could to infect all the horses on the yard to get it over and done with rather than let it grind on for weeks!
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sounds like the chicken pox and measles parties i went to as a kid!

there are always going to bad stories and good stories with strangles like wise with humans there are good and bad stories with measles etc, yes i have had a horse with it, a colt came to the yard with it! my horse was ok the colt not so much but he died from lock jaw another story and why i would vaccinate up to a certain age.

i do feel that if a yard does have strangles then nothing from the yard should hunt, compete, hacking but other than that carry on as normal with testing for the bacteria
 
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