Strangles.????? HELP!!

[Solitude&Kashmire]

Ok so what I’m against right now is I got a horse on trial from a dealer, I’ve used her before & this is the first time I’ve had a problem. Horse was not symptomatic when I lifted him but by the 3rd day the horse had cream looking snot that smelled bad from his nose. I messaged the dealer and was told to just inject penicillin for 4days I also spoke to a vet who said that was right and if it didn’t clear up there would need to be tests. However the injection seemed to work and the snots cleared up so we turned the horse out in the paddock after a few days rest. Went to ride him and he wasn’t the same horse so organised to return the horse. Dealer kept trying to delay the return and in the end allowed a return @ 9pm when it was pitch black (was winter) they then wouldn’t let me take the horse off at the yard and asked me to follow her up to a field which I did. A few days to a week later most of the horses on the yard had snots some even had bust cut looking sores but no puss or swelling so again didn’t jump to strangles only a few days later we were told the horse sold and was found to have strangles (visual conformation) which lead us to get nasal tests complete coming back positive we are 10 weeks on and still locked down as an older horse took longer to show. My question is would the dealer be held responsible as this is costing £600/700 per horse to treat so far

 

[ycbm]

What a mess, it must be a total nightmare for you.

But how can the dealer be responsible? The horse was asymptomatic when you picked it up and if no horses on her yard were symptomatic (or you can't prove they were) then I can't see how she is liable?

Especially as you could have tested the horse before taking it if you had chosen to.

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[Red-1]

To be fair, if I were a dealer, and was told that a horse had shown strangles symptoms, I too would not have taken him back to the yard immediately. The dealer has taken the horse back and has, very sensibly, isolated him away from their main yard.

You said yourself that he was asymptomatic, so it is unlikely the dealer knew, and the dealer took him back, presumably refunding. I am not sure they owe you anything.

It is good practice to isolate any new horse for 14 days on arrival, also giving an opportunity to worm, check for lice, take daily temp etc. I know most people don't, but it is bad luck that, on this occasion, you got stung.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

No, the dealer shouldn't be held liable I would say - you did not take sufficient quarantine procedures when the new horse came onto your yard, even after visual signs of the condition being present; unfortunately that's up to you and you have suffered the consequences.

Horrible situation though and I do feel for you.

 

[Goldenstar]

Why should the dealer be liable ?
You took a horse from a dealing yard and had it trial without taking any quarantine precautions that’s madness .
Going through the sales process in that type situation is exactly when stressed horses can fall victim to strangles I am speechless you think this is some else’s fault .

 

[AmyMay]

Of course they’re not liable.

 

[Dusty 123]

It’s your own fault you didn’t do any quarantine precautions and you didn’t quarantine the horse when you saw the snot. So the dealer isn’t responsible. You actually would be held responsible for the cost. It’s a horrible situation I would hate be in your shoes.

 

[Solitude&Kashmire]

What a mess, it must be a total nightmare for you.

But how can the dealer be responsible? The horse was asymptomatic when you picked it up and if no horses on her yard were symptomatic (or you can't prove they were) then I can't see how she is liable?

Especially as you could have tested the horse before taking it if you had chosen to.

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The yard owner I’m at thinks she is liable as we have been told she knew about it. We were not confirmed until the horse went back a few days later was sold and the new owner of him discovered strangles told the dealer who didn’t think to inform me. I’ve heard from her neighbour who is also her sister in law that she is known for doing this and had a strangle horse on the yard days before I lifted him and failed to quarantine her own yard. The horse was isolated from day 1 to 12 and turned out for about a week before she would agree a time.

 

[Solitude&Kashmire]

To be fair, if I were a dealer, and was told that a horse had shown strangles symptoms, I too would not have taken him back to the yard immediately. The dealer has taken the horse back and has, very sensibly, isolated him away from their main yard.

You said yourself that he was asymptomatic, so it is unlikely the dealer knew, and the dealer took him back, presumably refunding. I am not sure they owe you anything.

It is good practice to isolate any new horse for 14 days on arrival, also giving an opportunity to worm, check for lice, take daily temp etc. I know most people don't, but it is bad luck that, on this occasion, you got stung.

no money was exchanged as I’ve known the dealer since I was a child. Her neighbour and sister in law informed us she had a horse with strangles on the yard days before I lifted the horse I trialed he was isolated for 12 days before I knew as he seemed fine when snots cleared. He was worked and liced and temp was taken when he was snoting and was normal.

 

[Solitude&Kashmire]

No, the dealer shouldn't be held liable I would say - you did not take sufficient quarantine procedures when the new horse came onto your yard, even after visual signs of the condition being present; unfortunately that's up to you and you have suffered the consequences.

Horrible situation though and I do feel for you.

I did isolate for 12 days before he went out into the herd while I awaited the dealer to be available to receive him

 

[Solitude&Kashmire]

Why should the dealer be liable ?
You took a horse from a dealing yard and had it trial without taking any quarantine precautions that’s madness .
Going through the sales process in that type situation is exactly when stressed horses can fall victim to strangles I am speechless you think this is some else’s fault .

I isolated him for 12 days there was no temperature and snots lasted 2 days. I only believe she is at fault for simply 1.) letting me collected the horse when it was known (not by me) that she had a confirmed case pass through the yard and b.) failed to inform me after the new owner informed her about horse.

tbh it wouldn’t been an issue if she simply messaged me the new owner told her the horse had strangles and to be cautious about my own...

 

[ycbm]

You isolated him for the first twelve days he was at the new yard and then turned out a horse you had seen with a snotty nose, which took penicillin to clear, with contact with other horses on the yard?

I don't think you have a leg to stand on suing the dealer for any horse infected but the one you had on trial, and only then if you can prove the SiL's allegations. And maybe not even then, since you could have had him tested before taking him, as many livery yards insist.

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[Solitude&Kashmire]

It’s your own fault you didn’t do any quarantine precautions and you didn’t quarantine the horse when you saw the snot. So the dealer isn’t responsible. You actually would be held responsible for the cost. It’s a horrible situation I would hate be in your shoes.

I isolated for 12 days snot lasted 2 days no temperature etc to make me worry. Sadly we since found out she knew she had a confirmed case on the yard days before I collected and sadly never told me or quarantined her own yard

 

[ycbm]

I isolated for 12 days snot lasted 2 days no temperature etc to make me worry. Sadly we since found out she knew she had a confirmed case on the yard days before I collected and sadly never told me or quarantined her own yard

Recommended isolation for strangles is 21 days. I would not turn any horse out in company which had penicillin for a snotty nose until it had a clear strangles test. Your vet who prescribed the penicillin should have advised you to isolate the horse until it had been tested.

I'm sorry, but your yard took a huge risk and it didn't pay off. The dealer is not responsible for any infected horse but the one you trialled, and probably not even then. Who in their right mind would lend a knowingly exposed horse when no money had passed hands?

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[Solitude&Kashmire]

You isolated him for the first twelve days he was at the new yard and then turned out a horse you had seen with a snotty nose, which took penicillin to clear, with contact with other horses on the yard?

I don't think you have a leg to stand on suing the dealer for any horse infected but the one you had on trial, and only then if you can prove the SiL's allegations. And maybe not even then, since you could have had him tested before taking him, as many livery yards insist.

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It’s not something that livery yards actually ask for in Northern Ireland. There’s no proof just didn’t know if she could have been held liable. The yard owner where I livery is asking to contact her to hold her liable as her horses and others have been effected aswell as my own that were on the yard too. Sadly this dosent end there. The vet dealing with it aswell gave us the all clear about 2 weeks ago only for the older pony who tested clear twice to show symptoms we got a second opinion and we shouldn’t have even been open. Lucky we didn’t do anything or go anywhere other than I took my retired horse home

 

[AmyMay]

I think if your YO wants anyone to cough up for her clients vet bills she needs to look no further than herself. She didn’t apply a strict quarantine for a new horse, and then allowed a symptomatic horse to be turned out with others.

 

[Solitude&Kashmire]

Recommended isolation for strangles is 21 days. I would not turn any horse out in company which had penicillin for a snotty nose until it had a clear strangles test. Your vet who prescribed the penicillin should have advised you to isolate the horse until it had been tested.

I'm sorry, but your yard took a stupid risk and it didn't pay off. The dealer is not responsible for any infected horse but the one you trialled, and probably not even then. Who in their right mind would lend a knowingly exposed horse when no money had passed hands?

.

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The dealer is known to myself and I wanted a trial I’ve known her years I had lessons with her mum. I was waiting on wages and she was happy to let me trial horse as I’m only 20 minutes away.

 

[AmyMay]

The yard owner where I livery is asking to contact her to hold her liable as her horses and others have been effected aswell as my own that were on the yard

Well that’s your YO’s prerogative. All she has to do is either pick up the phone to speak to the dealer, or consult a solicitor.

 

[Solitude&Kashmire]

I think if your YO wants anyone to cough up for her clients vet bills she needs to look no further than herself. She didn’t apply a strict quarantine for a new horse, and then allowed a symptomatic horse to be turned out with others.

Just seems like a lesson learned for us all inc YO. Sadly it extends passed this we were locked down for 6 weeks got the all clear about 2 weeks ago so I took my retired horse home to my ponies who are just pets as she was clear but since then YO got 2nd opinion and we shouldn’t have been opened so yard is locked down and I’m just praying the ponies are clear. Thankfully no symptoms and we’re not near other horses

 

[Solitude&Kashmire]

Well that’s your YO’s prerogative. All she has to do is either pick up the phone to speak to the dealer, or consult a solicitor.

theres no proof so it won’t go anywhere she wants to speak to dealer so I gave her name but don’t want involved. It’s expensive to treat especially when the vet who originally took the case opened the yard at 6 weeks with clear bloods but after a second opinion and conformation from lab we shouldn’t have been opened

 

[Quigleyandme]

I bought a horse unseen from a dealer in Ireland and imported him to the UK. He arrived with primary sinusitis that killed him. He was thoroughly vetted two days prior to shipping including bloods which I later had analysed. Port Health confirmed the horses on the transport had been given a visual check and if one of the horses had been streaming pus from one nostril they would have acted appropriately. I thought the horse had a bit of shipping fever and I could fix him. For some reason I can‘t rationalise I didn’t tell the dealer the horse was sick until he had dropped dead. The horse cost half a year’s salary and the vet bills were half a year‘s salary. These things just happen unfortunately.

 

[Red-1]

I would be wary of encouraging owners to try to get money from the dealer if you have no proof that the dealer knew about strangles on her yard before you took the horse.

You may have isolated for 12 days, but during that time your horse became symptomatic and needed penicillin. You then turned out into the herd even though you had not done any swabs or pouch washes to prove he was clear of strangles, despite there being an obvious danger. I rather think that if people think that their vets bills should be paid by someone else, they may come to you for the money.

 

[Upthecreek]

Just seems like a lesson learned for us all inc YO. Sadly it extends passed this we were locked down for 6 weeks got the all clear about 2 weeks ago so I took my retired horse home to my ponies who are just pets as she was clear but since then YO got 2nd opinion and we shouldn’t have been opened so yard is locked down and I’m just praying the ponies are clear. Thankfully no symptoms and we’re not near other horses

But who is paying the £600/£700 for the horses infected with strangles to be treated? I would be beyond furious with both you & YO if this happened where I keep my horses because it has happened purely because of the irresponsible actions of both of you and I would be coming after you to pay for treatment if my horses were infected. The dealer may or may not have known but you and the YO should have made sure the horse was in quarantine for the duration of the trial period to protect the horses on the yard. The dealer cannot be blamed for that. Why on earth did you turn out a horse in a herd that had shown those symptoms, never mind the fact that you had already decided you weren’t keeping it?

I really hope you and YO have learned your lesson but I doubt that will be much consolation to the owners of all the horses that have been infected with strangles.

 

[Apizz2019]

I did isolate for 12 days before he went out into the herd while I awaited the dealer to be available to receive him

This is where so many get it wrong.

Horses should be screened prior to, or when they arrive to a yard, followed by a further blood test a minimum of 2 weeks after arrival, as this is how long it can take for symptoms to show. Then if all clear, turn out with the herd after a quarantine period has been observed for a total of 3 weeks from day of arrival.

Also, if pony has had it, it will need to have a pouch wash to ensure its not now a carrier.

This is why it's so hard to get on top of this nasty virus, because protocol isn't followed.

I hope you get this resolved quickly.

 

[ycbm]

This is where so many get it wrong.

Horses should be screened prior to, or when they arrive to a yard, followed by a further blood test a minimum of 2 weeks after arrival, as this is how long it can take for symptoms to show. Then if all clear, turn out with the herd after a quarantine period has been observed for a total of 3 weeks from day of arrival.

Also, if pony has had it, it will need to have a pouch wash to ensure its not now a carrier.

This is why it's so hard to get on top of this nasty virus, because protocol isn't followed.

I hope you get this resolved quickly.

To be fair Apizz, there's not much point to this protocol on a yard where horses come and go to competitions and training on a regular basis.

But it beggars belief turning out a new horse which has required antibiotics to treat a snotty nose, never mind one which isn't staying!

.

 

[Apizz2019]

To be fair Apizz, there's not much point to this protocol on a yard where horses come and go to competitions and training on a regular basis.

But it beggars belief turning out a new horse which has required antibiotics to treat a snotty nose, never mind one which isn't staying!

.

You're right. I was referring to the purchaser doing this. I wouldbt expect a dealer to do this as they're likely sold within a few weeks anyway.

I recently had a pouch wash done as our horses bloods came back a little high, thankfully it was clear but I'd not have forgiven myself if I were responsible for infecting any at our yard.

 

[SEL]

My bill hit £1500 after a reaction to a guttural pouch wash when a horse from a dealer brought strangles onto one of my old yards. Quarantine was pretty poor then too.

I didn't sue anyone. It was poor practice but given strangles isn't a notifiable disease in the UK I think you'd struggle with a legal case.