Strangles (When to notify Liveries)

epeters91

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This is a big topic on our yard at the moment so I'd be interested in others opinions.

The yard I'm on has no isolation for new horses a lot arrive and are turned out with other horses within a couple of days. Liveries have requested that an isolation procedure is put into place but it hasn't happened despite promises.

Last night we've found out that two ponies have been tested for strangles the symptoms sound like it's very likely to be strangles yet noone has been notified of anything. Horses have been going out to competitions over the weekend, someone brought their horse to the yard to hack out on Sunday and no notices around the possibly infected ponies so noone has known to avoid touching them.

I know this is not a definite strangles case yet but a lot of us feel we should have been told a lot sooner. Many of us go to other horses in other areas and one girl works with horses for a living but the yard owner and horse owner involved haven't notified anyone. The only reason we know now is because one of the girls (who works with horses) was around when the vet came so she's told the rest of the yard and we're all waiting on results this afternoon.

I know people like to avoid panic but I would rather be prepared and notified as soon as it was suspected than told when it's too late and other horses could have been put at risk either by being in the field or an adjoining field with the infected ponies or by stroking the pony in the stable before going back to their ponies. We have small children on the yard who go to visit the infected pony and others alot and say hi and give them a stroke over the door.

When would you notify other liveries if it was your yard or horse?
 

acorn92x

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Immediately. I would be absolutely furious if there was a possibility that a horse on the same yard as mine may have strangles and I wasn't told straight away.
 

Damnation

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Personally, I'd be notifying as soon as it was a possibility, and iscolating the horses with any symptoms as a precaution. I know it isn't always life threatening, however, if you can avoid further infection, a cautious approach is always appriciated.
 

hairycob

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When the vet phoned me to say my horse (despite the Vet's expectations to the contrary) was +ve for strangles I was running down the lane, while still on the phone, waving frantically to YO who was just leaving. She told all the other liveries that evening apart from 1 who was away attending their father's funeral.
 

epeters91

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Well I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking it should be immediately! My friends grandad has a 35 year old mare on the yard and theres a 7 month old foal with a couple of other youngsters. We don't think the old mare would survive strangles :( I just feel for a yard with around 65 horses on livery precaustions should have been taken and we should have been notified.
 

Orca

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Immediately. It's not just the horses who are at risk. Strangles is zoonotic, not species specific and can be caught by people with compromised immune systems, among other species. I think it's very irresponsible to allow free flow of equine traffic and close contact with probable sufferers.

I can understand the wish of the yard, not to stir up unnecessary worry but I'd be far less worried if I knew the situation was being managed properly, if I were there.
 

epeters91

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Just had the phonecall to confirm it is strangles :(

I have a question, my parents have land that I was planning to move my horse back to 3 seperate fields and a stable set away from the fields. Would it be a really bad idea to move my girl back home? She could go into isolation in her stable for 2 weeks to see if she shows any signs and otherwise we wouldn't be hacking out so the only risk is my mums two shetlands ponies that live out one is only a yearling but if we disinfect everything and put precautions in place surely she'd be less at risk than on the yard in a field next to here the infected ponies have been?
 

ester

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Even if not strangles people should be notified if a horse has respiratory symptoms so contact is minimised, no point in spreading things around unnecessarily!

If you can keep her in true isolation at home (and not spread it yourself either) then it is a possibility, especially if you were planning on moving anyway.
 

epeters91

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I will phone my vet today and see if they think it will be ok. My girls been lame and on box rest for the last week or so which luckily means she's been away from other ponies but it's whether anyones gone to give her a fuss while she's in there :/
 

Kat

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When we had a pony on our yard with suspect symptoms even though strangles was very unlikely she went straight into isolation until she had negative bloods. Neither her or her owner were allowed any contact with others and the owner had to do her other pony first then the isolated one without returning and she had to change her clothes and wash/disinfect before returning to the yard.

We have strict procedures as we have previously had a horse with strangles on the yard and due to previous YM not having proper isolation procedures it was very scary but luckily it didn't spread.
 

Apercrumbie

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If your girl isn't a high risk for strangles (very young/old/ill) then I wouldn't move her. There is no need to put young shetlands at risk and you will cause yourself a lot of bother having to constantly disinfect everything at your mothers. Wait out the quarantine at your yard and then look at moving her. Hopefully your YO will now have better isolation procedures in place! I really, really hope the 35yr old makes it. Can you imagine owning that horse and knowing that its death was completely needless?
 

Fransurrey

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I thought strangles was a notifiable disease and therefore subject to movement restrictions. Definitely check on that, as you'd be in deep poo with Defra if that's the case.
 

rascal

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I would be furious if my horse was on that yard, and I hadn't been told about even suspected strangles!! Its really bad that people are still competing on horses that could be infected, and they don't know.
 

Mike007

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I thought strangles was a notifiable disease and therefore subject to movement restrictions. Definitely check on that, as you'd be in deep poo with Defra if that's the case.

No ,it is not a notifiable disease.Not so long ago ,my horse looked a bit iffy and there was a possibility of strangles. The vet informed me that testing my horse was only of benefit to the rest of the yard . Nevertheless I asked him to do the test .He said that he was glad that I had made that choice ,though it wasnt up to him to influence me,he felt it was morally right. When he presented his bill, I was surprised at how low it was .He had done it at cost bless him!Then a number of other liveries also chipped in a few quid as they felt it was for them too. This is how strangles should be approached. Great vet and lovely fellow liveries.Edited to add that the result was completely negative which caused some serious head scratching. My horse shows zero antibodies to strangles even though two years before he had spent 4 months exposed to it ,the horse in the next stable to him had it and the yard was quarantined. So either there is a lot more to strangles than we know or it isnt as easy to catch as they say.
 
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dibbin

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Immediately, I would want to have been notified when the test was being considered. There was an outbreak at a yard near us a few years ago (my sister's horse was there at the time) and it's not an experience anyone would care to repeat.

I had bloods taken for testing when Jazz was vetted, and again before he moved yards in 2014.
 

Peggs

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I was on a yard that did a bit of dealing, one of the horses they brought in had strangles, but none-the-less was put out with other horses. We weren't told until one of the 4 liveries on the yard horse had caught it. The horse that had brought it in had had if for over fortnight by that time.

It goes without saying I moved soon I as could after I made sure my horse wasn't infected and yet the other liveries still remain. I don't understand some peoples logic sometimes! As for the dealing side that continued throughout.
 

asommerville

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To be honest I would keep your horse where she is until the yard gets the all clear, strangles is an absolute pain in the ass to deal with for people as well as the horses and I wouldn't want to risk the horses at your parents, at least if you stay where you are you know it's 'contained' so to speak
 

Princess16

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Can you get your horse tested yourself just to make sure and then move?

Yes I would be furious too this could all have been avoided if YO had isolated said horse and notified you all to begin with. Bad decision on her part.

Fingers crossed yours will be OK.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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If all YO's acted promptly, then this horrid infection would be much more contained.

We had a carrier visit my yard early last summer (told 2 days later that horse was and her companion then tested positive for strangles 2 days later). Owner had only had horse 10 days at that point. No one on my yard had been out since the Sunday, was told on the Tues morning & I immediately notified my 2 liveries, locked down yard, disinfected thoroughly where horse had been tied on yard.
Kept the full 3 week rule, taking temps twice daily. Then all good to go again.
Liveries were still able to ride in isolated paddock if they wished (I did!).
Also notified my neighbours too.
Also told liveries NOT to go onto other yards in mean time, unless complete change of clothes boots etc.
My poor friend was mortified, offering to pay for any vets bills if required (none needed)

Its NOT rocket science, but it beggars belieif WHY others cannot isolate and also be up front with their liveries. (not aimed at friend who is on HHO but general YO's)
 

PolarSkye

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If all YO's acted promptly, then this horrid infection would be much more contained.

We had a carrier visit my yard early last summer (told 2 days later that horse was and her companion then tested positive for strangles 2 days later). Owner had only had horse 10 days at that point. No one on my yard had been out since the Sunday, was told on the Tues morning & I immediately notified my 2 liveries, locked down yard, disinfected thoroughly where horse had been tied on yard.
Kept the full 3 week rule, taking temps twice daily. Then all good to go again.
Liveries were still able to ride in isolated paddock if they wished (I did!).
Also notified my neighbours too.
Also told liveries NOT to go onto other yards in mean time, unless complete change of clothes boots etc.
My poor friend was mortified, offering to pay for any vets bills if required (none needed)

Its NOT rocket science, but it beggars belieif WHY others cannot isolate and also be up front with their liveries. (not aimed at friend who is on HHO but general YO's)

Indeed. I found out (years after I had left) that a yard I was on (a riding centre no less) had a new horse arrive who was a carrier - he was treated by the yard vet, but not a single owner of the other horses was told - under the instruction of the YO/YM. Approximately 30 horses and ponies - relatively unhorsey public coming and going, loads of potential for cross contamination. I was beyond livid when I discovered this. Beggars belief really.

Yes, it's a scary diagnosis - but with proper management and hygiene it doesn't have to be . . . sadly, I do think many people panic and don't communicate for fear of "bad press" rather than take the route Alec and TFF describe above.

P
 

PeterNatt

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The yard should have a contract which clearly states that all new horses should be isolated for two full weeks and that any infectious disease must be reported to the yard owner immediately.
The owners of the horse should have immediately notified the yard owner who should have told the liveries.
The yard owner should have immediately placed the infected horses in to remote stables so as to reduce the risk of infecting other horses on the yard.
The yard owner should be made financially responsible for the outbreak of this infection.
 

epeters91

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Well we are slowly finding out more and more, th vets said me moving her home and isolating her there was a possibility but I'm not doing it because of the risk to the shetlands. Last night we were told the original pony has been unwell and showing signs since boxing day yet we were only notified on 4th January by someone who overheard the vet talking about testing them! We now have 3 definite cases of it, 2 horses showing early signs and this morning my 3 and a half year old has hardly touched her water and was lying down when I got there at 7am which is quite unusual for her so I've given her a fresh bucket of full water and I'm monitoring how much she drinks today. She was up and eating when I left but I feel like it's a only a matter of time.

One of the issues is that our hay and straw are included in livery costs so everyone uses the same source, even if the infected horses haven't touched we've all handled their food and bedding including the owners of the confirmed cases.

Infected horses are being isolated now but it's too little too late by far.
 

epeters91

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YO has now put a box with disinfectant outside each barn and a notice up for liveries saying the strangles is confirmed and if we have any questions to speak to their vet or them.

Last night everyone was going crazy booking the menage over the next few weeks, last time I was on a yard with strangles noone was allowed in the menage because if we're all in there it's another place where it could be spread is that right? I've mentioned it to a few liveries this morning but I'm going to check with the vet and if I'm right I'll tell the YO they need to stop people using the menage. They have aid last night noone is allowed to turn out in there now but I don't feel that's enough.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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epeters91, are you taking temps twice daily?
Best practice is to do ALL horses on the affected yard, with strict barrier working, eg: the fit ones first, then others after, disinfecting as you go, to eliminate cross infection. (overcoat/long overall, plastic gloves & washing boots is the norm)

Tho not always the main symptom, a raised temp is usually a pre-cursor of incubation - if strangles is already present in others.
 

epeters91

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I haven't been as we only had it confirmed last night but I defintely wil be taking temps twice a day moving forwards. I'm disinfecting hr stable this weekend and considering switcing her from the yard straw to shavings for now.
 

hairycob

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Are all the horses on the yard being tested? When we had it horse 1 had minimal symptoms - slight snot & a cough, no temp, no swellings, no depression, no loss of appetite. Indeed by the time the swab results came back he was clear of all symptoms. Horse 2 caught it from him & was completely asymptomatic. It took 9 weeks before both horses had swabbed clear 3 times.
If you blood test bear in mind it can 2 weeks after exposure before you get a positive & you can still get a positive blood test for months after the infection has cleared.
 

epeters91

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Nothings been mentioned about vets bills or having the horses tested I discussed it with someone last night but as you say it can take 2 weeks before we get a positive and we have around 65 horses on the yard so it's a lot of tests to do and yes might highlight some cases but theres a chance others cold slip through. We're trying to get a yard meeting arranged to get a plan together for moving forward
 
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