Strangles without symptoms

[Sossigpoker]

Horse had a routine strangles blood test for a yard move and one of the two tests came back quite a high positive. He hasn't had any symptoms or signs of any ill health at all.
What are the chances of the guttural pouch wash showing chondroits or the fluid coming out testing positive ?
I'm super anxious now as was supposed to be moving yards pretty soon and don't really have hundreds to spare for all this.

 

[spotty_pony]

Horse had a routine strangles blood test for a yard move and one of the two tests came back quite a high positive. He hasn't had any symptoms or signs of any ill health at all.
What are the chances of the guttural pouch wash showing chondroits or the fluid coming out testing positive ?
I'm super anxious now as was supposed to be moving yards pretty soon and don't really have hundreds to spare for all this.

I’m not 100% sure but I think this could indicate he is a carrier.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I’m not 100% sure but I think this could indicate he is a carrier.

Carrier means that the horse has chondroits etc but no symptoms.
I wanted to know if people have knowledge of a positive blood test without symptoms leading to the discovery of chondroits (there is a bit of a background to this which I'm not going to share ).
I'm really worried about both the cost and not being able to move my horse to the new yard.

 

[SEL]

Mine was really high with no symptoms and nothing on the scope - we knew we had strangles on the yard so it was annoying but not a surprise to get a positive test. It's an antibody test I believe so picked up her body was fighting it.

 

[bouncing_ball]

Horse had a routine strangles blood test for a yard move and one of the two tests came back quite a high positive. He hasn't had any symptoms or signs of any ill health at all.
What are the chances of the guttural pouch wash showing chondroits or the fluid coming out testing positive ?
I'm super anxious now as was supposed to be moving yards pretty soon and don't really have hundreds to spare for all this.

what number reading did you get?
Likelihood of positive test depends on scores.

 

[bouncing_ball]

Carrier means that the horse has chondroits etc but no symptoms.
I wanted to know if people have knowledge of a positive blood test without symptoms leading to the discovery of chondroits (there is a bit of a background to this which I'm not going to share ).
I'm really worried about both the cost and not being able to move my horse to the new yard.

it’s certainly possible by definition as other poster said carriers can carry infection in gutteral pouches and show no symptoms.

My vet said can get varying antibody load and clear or infected Gutteral pouches. Depending on timing snd luck.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Mine was really high with no symptoms and nothing on the scope - we knew we had strangles on the yard so it was annoying but not a surprise to get a positive test. It's an antibody test I believe so picked up her body was fighting it.

Did you have to have a second scope ? How high was the reading ?
As you can probably tell I'm a bit stressed ! I've been massively.looking forward to a yard move to make my life easier (struggling at the moment) so not knowing when that can happen is getting to me a bit...

 

[Dizzy socks]

I’m not sure if this is any use, but mine had a positive, though not all that high, and no symptoms. We retested two weeks later and he was clear.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I’m not sure if this is any use, but mine had a positive, though not all that high, and no symptoms. We retested two weeks later and he was clear.

Thanks. I'm not prepared to wait for two weeks so going straight for the wash , especially as one of the tests was over 1. ?

 

[SEL]

Did you have to have a second scope ? How high was the reading ?
As you can probably tell I'm a bit stressed ! I've been massively.looking forward to a yard move to make my life easier (struggling at the moment) so not knowing when that can happen is getting to me a bit...

She was about 1.6 but her field mate was negligible. I'd blood tested because I needed to move yards. The vets were convinced the few other (marginal) positive tests were an anomaly so weren't massively worried and were very shocked at her result - esp as my 2 horses were in a paddock on their own without any fence lines adjoining other horses.

I wasn't surprised because I'd seen the original horse with strangles with snot pouring from its nose and under its neck. The vets never got to see that one because it was quietly shot by an owner who didn't want the vet bills ?

 

[bluehorse]

I had exactly the same situation with my horse. Blood test was positive, but he had a guttural pouch wash which was negative. My vet said it’s not that unusual. At the time I’d owned my horse for over 4 years with no illness or known exposure to strangles. The blood test is a test for antibodies, so it shows current exposure or exposure in the past with retained antibodies. There are 3 scenarios if you get a positive blood test: the horse has an active infection (horse has symptoms and wash shows infection); the horse has no active infection but is a carrier (horse has no symptoms but wash shows infection); the horse has had exposure to infection in the past but has no active infection and is not a carrier (wash is clear). Obviously I can’t predict what the outcome will be for your horse but my vet was certainly very relaxed about it and he was right. If you know your horse‘s current health and the likelihood of it being exposed in the past then i don’t think it’s too much to worry about. If you’re aware your horse has been in close proximity to strangles cases in the past he may be a carrier.

 

[Leandy]

I had exactly the same situation with my horse. Blood test was positive, but he had a guttural pouch wash which was negative. My vet said it’s not that unusual. At the time I’d owned my horse for over 4 years with no illness or known exposure to strangles. The blood test is a test for antibodies, so it shows current exposure or exposure in the past with retained antibodies. There are 3 scenarios if you get a positive blood test: the horse has an active infection (horse has symptoms and wash shows infection); the horse has no active infection but is a carrier (horse has no symptoms but wash shows infection); the horse has had exposure to infection in the past but has no active infection and is not a carrier (wash is clear). Obviously I can’t predict what the outcome will be for your horse but my vet was certainly very relaxed about it and he was right. If you know your horse‘s current health and the likelihood of it being exposed in the past then i don’t think it’s too much to worry about. If you’re aware your horse has been in close proximity to strangles cases in the past he may be a carrier.

This exactly. Same happened to one of mine when I sold her and purchaser did a routine strangles test for move new yard. The vet had advised that they show a lot of positives because horses are carrying antibodies when neither infected nor infectious themselves (which you would think was a good thing given it evidences a degree of immunity). Lo and behold it came back positive much to my surprise given I had owned the horse for over 4 years with never a day off sick from anything let alone strangles and no known exposure to it. Poor purchaser then had to pay several hundred pounds for guttural pouch wash which came back negative.

 

[Sossigpoker]

This exactly. Same happened to one of mine when I sold her and purchaser did a routine strangles test for move new yard. The vet had advised that they show a lot of positives because horses are carrying antibodies when neither infected nor infectious themselves (which you would think was a good thing given it evidences a degree of immunity). Lo and behold it came back positive much to my surprise given I had owned the horse for over 4 years with never a day off sick from anything let alone strangles and no known exposure to it. Poor purchaser then had to pay several hundred pounds for guttural pouch wash which came back negative.

I really hope the wash comes back OK.
We have had strangles very near by but nothing has shown any symptoms , which is odd, and this was nearly 6 months ago. And horses around mine have not had positive tests.
I could really do without the extra expense so I'm dreading that they find chondroits and that means more treatments and tests.

 

[Leandy]

I really hope the wash comes back OK.
We have had strangles very near by but nothing has shown any symptoms , which is odd, and this was nearly 6 months ago. And horses around mine have not had positive tests.
I could really do without the extra expense so I'm dreading that they find chondroits and that means more treatments and tests.

Fingers crossed for you! From my experience and from what the vet said about number of non-symptomatic horses which come out positive on the blood test but negative on the wash, you have a good chance all will be ok! He is a very experienced and well respected vet and his firm advice was that requiring routine strangles tests of non-symptomatic horses as a condition to moving onto a yard was a complete waste of time and money. Others will no doubt come along with their experiences of carriers managing to infect a yard but it seems this is exceptionally rare.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Fingers crossed for you! From my experience and from what the vet said about number of non-symptomatic horses which come out positive on the blood test but negative on the wash, you have a good chance all will be ok! He is a very experienced and well respected vet and his firm advice was that requiring routine strangles tests of non-symptomatic horses as a condition to moving onto a yard was a complete waste of time and money. Others will no doubt come along with their experiences of carriers managing to infect a yard but it seems this is exceptionally rare.

Thank you !!
I wish I hadn't tested now although of course I'd be really upset if I hadn't and he went onto infect others.
He's a sensitive horse and although he'll be sedated, I still dread this awful procedure being done on him ?

 

[eggs]

I had to get one of mine blood tested when he went to a rehab yard following an operation. He was about 12 at the time and I have owned him since a foal. We were very surprised when he came back with a low positive but my vet put it down to the fact that he had just come back from vet hospital and may have been exposed to other viruses there which caused the positive result. He has never had strangles and we have never had strangles at the yard.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I had to get one of mine blood tested when he went to a rehab yard following an operation. He was about 12 at the time and I have owned him since a foal. We were very surprised when he came back with a low positive but my vet put it down to the fact that he had just come back from vet hospital and may have been exposed to other viruses there which caused the positive result. He has never had strangles and we have never had strangles at the yard.

Strangles is a bacterial infection and not a virus and the test looks for antibodies to the Streptococcus Equi bacteria so exposure to any virus won't make any difference to the result. If that's what the vet claimed , I think they need to go back to school !

 

[Hormonal Filly]

My YO pretty much forced me to have my mare strangles tested as she came from Ireland. She came from a yard she’d been at her entire life, but still. (Mind other horses that came from anywhere else don’t even require isolation, grr.) She had 2 high blood result indicating previously had been infected (carrier) or just been in contact with it, so newly infected.

My vets (at the time) highly recommended she had a guttural pouch wash, which cost just under £400. I also felt guilty if she did have it, the risk of giving it to the others (even though she was isolated) Luckily she was totally clear.. and the full works with the blood tests was around £600 and not insured as I had just bought her!

My new vet said a lot of horses test high on a strangles bloody test and he wouldn’t necessarily jump straight to a guttural pouch wash.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Thank you !!
I wish I hadn't tested now although of course I'd be really upset if I hadn't and he went onto infect others.
He's a sensitive horse and although he'll be sedated, I still dread this awful procedure being done on him ?

The worst thing about it sadly was the procedure. The vet had the wrong tube, so it took twice as long as well as being young she said everything was ‘small’ and hard to get into her pouches. Even though heavily sedated she had to be re sedated, but the next day she had forgotten about it.

 

[Sossigpoker]

My YO pretty much forced me to have my mare strangles tested as she came from Ireland. She came from a yard she’d been at her entire life, but still. (Mind other horses that came from anywhere else don’t even require isolation, grr.) She had 2 high blood result indicating previously had been infected (carrier) or just been in contact with it, so newly infected..

My YO is the same, seems to decide on a whim which horse is a risk. Their friends' horses of course aren't a risk.
..
I'm glad yours was clear, hoping for the same result here.
Mine is insured but they said just now that if the GP is clear, they won't pay.
Fun times ahead - not!

 

[Sossigpoker]

The worst thing about it sadly was the procedure. The vet had the wrong tube, so it took twice as long as well as being young she said everything was ‘small’ and hard to get into her pouches. Even though heavily sedated she had to be re sedated, but the next day she had forgotten about it.

I feel like crying just thinking about it!
He used to be so nervous but is much better with people now , he will be terrified until the sedation kicks in as he's still not that comfortable with vets.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I'm glad yours was clear, hoping for the same result here.
Mine is insured but they said just now that if the GP is clear, they won't pay.
Fun times ahead - not!

Everything crossed for you. Not to make you worry, he will be fine. I’d ask for them to wait until he’s fully under the sedation, it’s the tube going up and faffing that isn’t comfortable. It’s had no affects on my mare, luckily, I think I was more scared by it.

If it makes any difference, a friend wanted to move yards in 2020 and both her horses had the blood test prior to moving. Lived together for years and years since youngsters, none had ever had strangles or been at a yard with strangles.

One came back with a high positive, other totally negative. They waited 2 weeks and then moved as he had no symptoms.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Everything crossed for you. Not to make you worry, he will be fine. I’d ask for them to wait until he’s fully under the sedation, it’s the tube going up and faffing that isn’t comfortable. It’s had no affects on my mare, luckily, I think I was more scared by it.

Thank you for that I will make sure they wait until he's proper sleepy.

 

[EventingMum]

I have had several with positive blood tests and negative gutteral pouch washes over the years. I have just learnt to my cost that blood tests aren't reliable at all having had one with a negative blood test but a swab of the tiny, clear nasal discharge present when the blood test was done was positive for strangles despite not having a temperature or any other symptoms.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Thank you !!
I wish I hadn't tested now although of course I'd be really upset if I hadn't and he went onto infect others.
He's a sensitive horse and although he'll be sedated, I still dread this awful procedure being done on him ?

The procedure isn’t nice, obviously, but he’ll be well under, as was mine. I hope it comes back clear. The RVC did mine and told me within 48 hours, first was positive, but we knew this, the yard had strangles, mine was endlessly snotty so we didn’t do the wash til he’d stopped spotting. I had to wait 2 weeks for another clear wash. Very frustrating but well worth doing before a yard move given how uncomfortable for the horses, how restrictive and how expensive it was to get every horse kept in and multiple washes.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I've also had high bloods but negative on scope. IIRC my vet said about 10% of all horses will return a positive blood test and of those only 10% are carriers. The rest are just showing eividence of previous exposure. So chances are very high that you will be fine.

It is a stressful business though. I feel for you.

 

[HorsesRule2009]

It's actually fairly common for bloods to come back high but then the actual pouch wash to come back negative.
This is because the blood test is testing for anti bodies so if the horses has been in contact or near an infected horse the result will likely be high, but each horse is an individual so the length of time it takes for these antibodies to start dropping varies horse to horse they say to redo bloods after 2 weeks but the antibody count can take up to 6months or even longer to start reducing.
Bloods became very popular for pre movement especially when moving yards but unfortunately they don't really tell you if a horse has it or not.
I know GPW is more expensive but probably better off going straight for this as you will get a much more accurate result from the start.

I hope this helps

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

My yard didn’t rely on bloods, everyone had to be scoped.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I've also had high bloods but negative on scope. IIRC my vet said about 10% of all horses will return a positive blood test and of those only 10% are carriers. The rest are just showing eividence of previous exposure. So chances are very high that you will be fine.

It is a stressful business though. I feel for you.

Thank you , that sounds positive about the low numbers having positive scopes.


So turns out that the hysteria over strangles at the yard about 5 months ago was just hysteria - some horses had a high blood test but not one had symptoms, yet we had total hysteria like we had a yard full of horses covered in puss or something.
YO is now totally different and doesn't seem bothered at all.
In hindsight this has been handled very badly. All the horses should have been scoped straight away and treated if need be. But with a number of horses , obviously that costs a lot.
Just waiting for it to pass has achieved nothing as we dont even know if any of the horses actually developed the disease or not. . The yard next door didn't even keep their horses in !

It looks like there's unnecessary hysteria about it in general and the stress (and cost ) this is causing me , I won't be blood testing him again unless he has symptoms. I really wish I hadn't tested him at all.
He continues to be well and has zero signs of any illness at all, thankfully.

 

[Smoky 2022]

The problem is if a horse tested positive on blood test 5 months ago than your horse probably was exposed to it. Nobody will take you into a new yard with a positive blood test though so you’re screwed and they will go mad if they find out .