Strangles!

[Liloandstitch]

The horrible strangles unfortunately the yard my horses are currently at came down with a case of it around 14 weeks ago. It was a very mild case, I fact 3 different vets didn't spot it until someone on the yard forced them to test for it and it came back positive. Anyway in these passed weeks only about 7 horses have actually had it (it's a very large yard) and so I suppose we all expected it to soon pass. However, it has recently come into a separate field to what it was contained in originally. I seriously feel like the yard owners are to fault here and they only quarantined ONE horse! No others! And the didn't even paddock them off they continued to let them out into the field with other horses! That field happens to have my horses in aswell. Fortunately none of mine have come down with it yet (touch wood) and I've been monitoring temperature etc regularly to make sure. My question is: Do you think I should move off?! I am REALLY considering it as I think the way it has been handled by the managers is appalling and to be honest I don't think they really care about the horses, they just think "oh they have to stay so that means more money etc.." Which I am so angry about. Someone has already moved their horses off onto their own land for a month to them make sure they are contaminated to then move onto a different yard. I am considering doing this. What would you do if it was you? Rumors are going around that no one thinks we'll be off before Easter, I repeat EASTER! I ideally would love to be off defiantly before Christmas, to get in extra training before the season commences. I also don't fancy having to pay so much money for my horses for tests constantly every time someone suspects they have it, even when the yard owners aren't testimg their own ponies! I'm totally tuck as it is a good yard with amazing facilities but this has really knocked my love for it, and am starting to dread what else could go wrong with it. Advice please!!

 

[Equi]

I read this entire thread can I have a cookie? There's usually a cookie at the end...

Have any other liveries expressed the same view as you? If so band together and demand stricter protocol. Horses can carry the virus and not get sick so moving is not really an option until it's been cleared

 

[Shay]

No reputable yard would take you directly from an infected yard. You could opt not to say I suppose - but that is why Strangles spreads. If you have your own land to move onto to go into quarantine that yes - you should probably do that. But if you don't - what choice do you have? You are not going to be able to move until the outbreak is cleared.

Strangles itself isn't the problem. It happens. The problem is the response or yards - and liveries. There is no stigma attached to catching strangles. It is present in most - if not all - of the wild and feral equid populations in the UK. You can keep the best bio security you can. But things still happen. The best thing to do is to lock down and for no-one to move until the outbreak clears. Villifying yards - or people - for catching this does not help.

 

[Mike007]

No reputable yard would take you directly from an infected yard. You could opt not to say I suppose - but that is why Strangles spreads. If you have your own land to move onto to go into quarantine that yes - you should probably do that. But if you don't - what choice do you have? You are not going to be able to move until the outbreak is cleared.

Strangles itself isn't the problem. It happens. The problem is the response or yards - and liveries. There is no stigma attached to catching strangles. It is present in most - if not all - of the wild and feral equid populations in the UK. You can keep the best bio security you can. But things still happen. The best thing to do is to lock down and for no-one to move until the outbreak clears. Villifying yards - or people - for catching this does not help.

Thank you Shay for possibly the most sensible post I have seen on this subject.

 

[Equi]

Agreed. It's like people having the flu lol

 

[elliefiz]

The bacteria that causes strangles can live for months on fencing, etc according to the vet who dealt with a case of it local to me. I wouldn't be risking contaminating my grazing by putting horses with strangles or suspected strangles on it. If infected horses are grazing a paddock already, well I would empty it of horses, quarantine them in stables and leave the field empty for the winter and hopefully a good frost will kill the bacteria off.

I don't think you sound terribly responsible to be honest. If the owners are being so lax about things why haven't you demanded they take action. Your horses are grazing alongside infected horses. Moving them to another yard would be irresponsible and unfair. Everything in that paddock needs to be quarantined and those not showing signs of infection should be closely monitored with daily temp checks and maybe a guttural wash carried out to see if they are harbouring the infection without showing symptoms. As that's the most dangerous thing/ some horses are carriers who will spread it without showing any symptoms themselves. I find you whining about wanting to go training quite perplexing- no one and I repeat no one would want you at a competition or at a lesson alongside their horses if they knew you had left a yard where your horse had been exposed to strangles. It's that sort of selfish attitude that spreads the infection in the first place.

 

[AmieeT]

You complain that only one horse has been quarantined and say the YOs are at fault, and in the same breath go on to say you want to move your horse?

I'd agree with the above, sounds very irresponsible of you too. I think you should at least wait until the yard gets the all clear before considering a move.

 

[popsdosh]

Yep just like a cold except to odd one has complications. The reason it seems worse nowadays is because horses are not exposed to it so often so have no natural immunity.
Rather than quarantine in days gone bye yards would have gone round with an infected rag to make sure the whole yard caught it and they could be all managed together rather than it lingering on for months in a yard. A bit like a chicken pox party for kids

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I read this entire thread can I have a cookie? There's usually a cookie at the end...

Have any other liveries expressed the same view as you? If so band together and demand stricter protocol. Horses can carry the virus and not get sick so moving is not really an option until it's been cleared

Its not a virus its a bacterium, a virus is so small it can attach to dust and be wind borne.
The disease is contagious, spread by contact and it is in the lap of the gods if you get it with this careless approach. Some people think it is better to get it and "develop immunity", but that is not recommended, at all.
There's no point in random blood tests if there is no isolation and swab tests are no use.
My boy had a severe case and never had a blood test, he did have a gutteral pouch procedure after 30 days of no symptoms in the herd.
Yes Easter is possible, but the vet will have recommended protocols as this is a herd problem. I fear it is too late now.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

OP I understood you to mean you were considering moving to private land too, also to move once outbreak over. Obviously to move or go anywhere else would be unethical until this out break if officially over. YO sounds like they need an update on strangles and its management.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

OP I understood you to mean you were considering moving to private land too, also to move once outbreak over. Obviously to move or go anywhere else would be unethical until this out break if officially over. YO sounds like they need an update on strangles and its management.

There is a leaflet and the advice is quite clear, lockdown, extreme hygiene measures, and temperatures twice per day. The YO has elected to ignore advice, you cannot force them.

As I say, it is probably too late now, all the horses and all the ponies have had exposure so really there is no point in trying to isolate. It might be best to turn them all out in to their respective fields for a month, clean and disinfect all stabling all tack , everything.
It is not likely that the horses will get it off fenceposts after a month, more likely is if fresh infective nasal discharge [and this is more likely to be clear than yellow], is on a gate or on rugs, clothing etc as I say it is spread by contact. The hot spots are communal facilities like water taps and feed rooms and hay.
If you want to move your horse, not now obviously. You can have a blood test done at the time.
If the horse has had strangles a gutteral pouch test and endoscopy is to establish if infection is present, if there is evidence if infection, and a antibotic wash to clear out anything else.
It is difficlt to examine ponies because the passage through for the endoscope is so small.
Having had no protocols means that a vet cannot approach this in the correct way, so reall he is treating "cases", and the best treatment is usually no treatment. NO antibiotic unless horse is very sick.

 

[Nudibranch]

As mentioned already, I dont think moving is a sensible or ethical option.
And as already mentioned, strangles is usually not that big a deal. When I used to be on livery, a new horse must have brought it onto the yard. Only one pony caught it - my old girl, who had PPID. We never even knew about it until she contracted it. As she was retired and never left the yard, the "blame" was put on the new horse. Anyway despite being PPID, and getting a cantaloupe sized abscess, she came through pretty easily and nobody else was affected.
Maybe just calm down a little. Sounds like its been on the yard a while now so will have done the rounds.

 

[Feival]

No reputable yard would take you directly from an infected yard. You could opt not to say I suppose - but that is why Strangles spreads. If you have your own land to move onto to go into quarantine that yes - you should probably do that. But if you don't - what choice do you have? You are not going to be able to move until the outbreak is cleared.

100% Agree with this.

 

[Goldenstar]

I agree with those who have said you could isolate on your own land if it was isolated enough from other peoples horses .
But I doubt any YOer would want you for a long while imagine the fuss if the new yard got strangles all be it from another source .
Not strangles but the last time we had a virus here was during the foot and mouth outbreak the horses where turned out ,where going no where ,I was not meeting up with horsey people because everything was cancelled yet somehow from somewhere we got the virus .
Still don't know how ,vet thought a bird might have carried it in .

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Our vets gave a strangles talk and the advice was that antibiotics would not penetrate the infected glands and were not generally offered, nursing care is the answer. All yards should have a strangles policy based on the latest information available. i would be leaving once the yard has the all clear.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

As mentioned already, I dont think moving is a sensible or ethical option.
And as already mentioned, strangles is usually not that big a deal. When I used to be on livery, a new horse must have brought it onto the yard. Only one pony caught it - my old girl, who had PPID. We never even knew about it until she contracted it. As she was retired and never left the yard, the "blame" was put on the new horse. Anyway despite being PPID, and getting a cantaloupe sized abscess, she came through pretty easily and nobody else was affected.
Maybe just calm down a little. Sounds like its been on the yard a while now so will have done the rounds.

This sort of lackadaisical approach is wrong, it is a serious disease, the RS who chose to ignore the correct procedures unill it was too late gave my horse a bad dose of strangles, I had to pay the penalty, and so did my horse. It was totally preventable, isolation of new horses is essential, allowing infected horses to mix etc etc is madness.

 

[Goldenstar]

Although most horses recover from strangles some don't .
My second pony caught it when she was six she was isolated in a stable and all the other horses stayed out and their owners avoided coming through the yard to do their own who stayed in the field for six weeks .
When the abscess burst it was like a horror film with bloody pus dripping from everywhere she was very very sick and the vet had the talk with me I was eight about her having to go thankfully mainly I think because my mum nursed and nursed her she recovered but had to have a year off and was never really the same again .
I hope never ever to see strangles again .
We contained it because the other people using the stables where sensible and left their horses out and it was a bit of luck as well ,there where lots of horses living in other places about the village and thankfully no one caught it.

 

[Nudibranch]

I would not call it lackadaisical, really Bonkers you have no need to be so regularly rude! If the YO introduces new horses that is up to them. Yes they should quarantine, but if they do not tell anyone a new horse is coming, what are the existing liveries meant to do? Fwiw the new horse was turned out 3 LARGE fields away from mine and was a carrier but not affected. Note i say turned out, not stabled. Likewise the other horses would have carried it but not been affected.
I have always managed my horses according to veterinary direction and in this case she was indeed prescribed antibiotics as the abscess had formed. Stating they should not be used as a blanket statement is wrong.
I keep my horses at home now, but I am not going to preach to others about their livery situations when they are stuck with the rules of the YO. Pretty unhelpful, and in this case, moving yard at the present time is entirely inappropriate.

 

[Liloandstitch]

OP I understood you to mean you were considering moving to private land too, also to move once outbreak over. Obviously to move or go anywhere else would be unethical until this out break if officially over. YO sounds like they need an update on strangles and its management.

Thank you! You seem to be the only person what understood me when I said I'd move to PRIVATE land and have them tested for clarity, I would never just move onto another yard and expect nothing to come with it! And for people saying me and other should talk to the YO's about it- we have and they took the advice.. For their horses! They separated their own horses and when we asked for ours to be seperated they come out with "well they'll have it by now anyway". I am just shocked at their management. Thank you for all responses though.

 

[twiggy2]

No reputable yard would take you directly from an infected yard. You could opt not to say I suppose - but that is why Strangles spreads. If you have your own land to move onto to go into quarantine that yes - you should probably do that. But if you don't - what choice do you have? You are not going to be able to move until the outbreak is cleared.

Strangles itself isn't the problem. It happens. The problem is the response or yards - and liveries. There is no stigma attached to catching strangles. It is present in most - if not all - of the wild and feral equid populations in the UK. You can keep the best bio security you can. But things still happen. The best thing to do is to lock down and for no-one to move until the outbreak clears. Villifying yards - or people - for catching this does not help.

This-the yard cannot make it pass quickly, quarantining horses on a yard just make it take longer to get round, lots of horses carry it without showing symptoms until they are under the weather for another reason.
even if you are moving to private land you are spreading the risk to another area so very irresponsible if you ask me.
horses with symptoms are better grazing outside in the fresh air and eating grass which is softer on a sore throat-keeping the routine also reduces stress to the individual and that can aid a quicker recovery. the horses grazing alongside or exposed to a horse in the period before symptoms show have already been exposed to the virus too.

 

[twiggy2]

This sort of lackadaisical approach is wrong, it is a serious disease, the RS who chose to ignore the correct procedures unill it was too late gave my horse a bad dose of strangles, I had to pay the penalty, and so did my horse. It was totally preventable, isolation of new horses is essential, allowing infected horses to mix etc etc is madness.

many horses are carriers without showing symptoms so isolation is a waste of time in many cases

 

[ester]

It is only spread by contact so moving horses to private land with no other equids is not at all irresponsible.

It seems foolish and odd to the extreme to have infected and sick(?) animals turned out with non-infected.

Have yours been tested previously or now OP?

I think carriers with no symptoms are less likely to pass it on as they aren't likely to be shedding anywhere near the amount of bacteria that infected animals are.

 

[Liloandstitch]

To also clarify to people- several vets have agreed to the person moving her horses off and have taken strict measures (testing them 3 times over the period of at least a month, monitoring temperatures closely, and her land is actually part of her garden so is no where near any other horses to pass anything on to. They have disinfected everything and will be waiting for definite at least 1 month (time of incubation period) of being clear from it until they even consider going anywhere with them. That is what I would plan to do if I were to move off. I would never be considering it if vets haven't approved or if there was no land to go to.

 

[ester]

If you have land to go to I would go.

 

[Liloandstitch]

It is only spread by contact so moving horses to private land with no other equids is not at all irresponsible.

It seems foolish and odd to the extreme to have infected and sick(?) animals turned out with non-infected.

Have yours been tested previously or now OP?

I think carriers with no symptoms are less likely to pass it on as they aren't likely to be shedding anywhere near the amount of bacteria that infected animals are.

Thank you for understanding too! One of mine got tested due to the YO forcing us to, because he was ill with pneumonia 3 weeks before strangles came onto the yard (he hadn't been off he yard in a year and a half either) and it came back negative, thankfully! My other ones haven't shown any symptoms so far and I'm keeping a close eye on their temperature and eating habits etc...

 

[Pinkvboots]

To also clarify to people- several vets have agreed to the person moving her horses off and have taken strict measures (testing them 3 times over the period of at least a month, monitoring temperatures closely, and her land is actually part of her garden so is no where near any other horses to pass anything on to. They have disinfected everything and will be waiting for definite at least 1 month (time of incubation period) of being clear from it until they even consider going anywhere with them. That is what I would plan to do if I were to move off. I would never be considering it if vets haven't approved or if there was no land to go to.

if you get the okay from your vet to move them to private land and you do the necessary tests I would go, it sounds like where you are could turn out to be a never ending cycle of strangles cases because of the lack of the correct management.
A yard near me years ago had a horse that was moved there having just been purchased Un seen from Ireland and that went down with strangles, it was isolated and no one from the yard could hack out or take there horse anywhere for 3 months and that was the vets recommendation at the time no other horses went down with it luckily.

 

[twiggy2]

It is only spread by contact so moving horses to private land with no other equids is not at all irresponsible.

It seems foolish and odd to the extreme to have infected and sick(?) animals turned out with non-infected.

Have yours been tested previously or now OP?

I think carriers with no symptoms are less likely to pass it on as they aren't likely to be shedding anywhere near the amount of bacteria that infected animals are.

It can be spread by a shared water source where it can live for over a month and also transmitted mechanically it is not just by direct contact. If the horses are in a place people can reach to pet them it can e passed on to more horses. the OPs horses have been exposed from what has been written so it seems to be a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted to move them and just spreads the risk

 

[Liloandstitch]

if you get the okay from your vet to move them to private land and you do the necessary tests I would go, it sounds like where you are could turn out to be a never ending cycle of strangles cases because of the lack of the correct management.
A yard near me years ago had a horse that was moved there having just been purchased Un seen from Ireland and that went down with strangles, it was isolated and no one from the yard could hack out or take there horse anywhere for 3 months and that was the vets recommendation at the time no other horses went down with it luckily.

That is what I'm afraid of, we've already been quarantined for 14 weeks and some ponies are still showing signs of it. It seems like it's just never going to sto! Eek! I totally get why people wouldn't want someone to move off a contaminated yard, but like you said I have vets permission and I would never do anything that would risk spreading it

 

[ester]

well yes, sorry I see shared water sources as quite a direct connection- I used direct contact wrongly there and yes it is possible the OPs horses are infected/are carriers.

But I don't see that moving them to private land in presumably her own transport with no other equids is a risk.

Yards do seem to be increasingly asking for tests to be done before moving to them though so the Op might want to be aware that her future yard opportunities might be limited especially as one horse has not yet been tested.

It is tricky, when realistically it should be a pretty simple bacterium to deal with as it isn't that robust in it's environment or airbourne.