Strangles

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Sb0137

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Hi, what is the standard etiquette in England if after a successful vetting the horse has a positive strangles test and after further tests it turns out to be a carrier. Can the buyer rescind the purchase contract, walk away ie leave the horse with the dealer and have deposit/payments refunded? What are the buyer's right in these circumstances? Many thanks.
 
IMO, it depends on the wording of the deposit receipt.

Mine always says that the deposit is returnable on an unsatisfactory vetting. Being a carrier is unsatisfactory, so my deposit would be returned. I did once have to do this, not with strangles but with another respiratory virus. I gave them time to get the horse better but they kept saying he was better, only for me to waste more money on a failed return vet visit. I did get my deposit back (they were reluctant) because of the wording on the deposit receipt.

If I liked the horse enough, I may give them opportunity to perform washes etc to remove the cause of them being a carrier. Unless you just mean that the blood test showed strangles? As this can simply mean they have had it in the past but are not now infected as the blood test shows antibodies not the actual infection.

I also once had a horse I later found had been a carrier (from a failed vetting) yet we bought it shortly after without testing. When I found out, I had him tested and he was no longer a carrier. The vet said they can get rid of it themselves. He never infected any other horse on our yard either. I don't think he ever had treatment.
 
Thanks a lot. At this stage we've only had the blood test and having the guttural pouches test done soon. Hopefully it comes clear. The horse is still at the dealer. Just wondering about how I stand legally in the worst scenario that the horse is a carrier as in good faith I paid the full price after the successful vetting but before getting the strangles test results. Has anyone experienced such a case?
 
Sb0137 said:
Thanks a lot. At this stage we've only had the blood test and having the guttural pouches test done soon. Hopefully it comes clear. The horse is still at the dealer. Just wondering about how I stand legally in the worst scenario that the horse is a carrier as in good faith I paid the full price after the successful vetting but before getting the strangles test results. Has anyone experienced such a case?
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Many horses are positive on bloods. Hopefully the guttural pouch test is clear.

Obviously, you are wishing you hadn't paid full price before getting the full vetting tests. I would imagine the law would be on your side rather than the dealers if the horse is a carrier, as the horse is not of merchantable quality. The ease of getting the money back will depend on the dealer!

Plus, as I said, if you like the horse you could allow the dealer to deal with washes etc until the horse is clear.
 
One of mine tested positive on a blood test but since I had had him as a foal I knew that he had never had strangles. Hopefully the guttural pouch test will be clear.

I guess from your question that the dealer is not receptive to any sort of refund.

I am not a legal expert but as money has already changed hands it sounds as thought the contract has been completed. It would be worth getting a legal opinion if you are concerned.
 
If you ask admin to move this to tack room you will probably get more responses than in this section.
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Ugh, that's a bit of a nightmare scenario.

A horse who I'd owned for two years had a positive blood test, taken because I was moving yards and new yard required it. My horse hadn't been anywhere for about a year and a half, so I was quite surprised. Felt like that scene from Jane the Virgin when the vet called me. "But I've never had sex!!" In my case, I yelped, "But she hasn't left the yard!!" Then I had the gutteral pouch endoscopy, and she was fine. If she hadn't been, it would have been my problem because she was obviously my horse. But I wondered what I would have done if it had been a horse I'd just bought. Both times I have bought horses in the last 2/3 years, I'd paid the full purchase price before the ELISA test (the blood test) results came back. Luckily, it was negative in both cases, but yikes.

Basically, ELISA tests for antibodies, which could be present if the horse has had any vague exposure, and those antibodies can hang around for a while. Six months to a year-ish is my understanding. Strangles is more endemic than we think, so a horse going to a show can have a low level of exposure, passing on enough of the disease to create antibodies in their pasture-mates, but not enough for anyone to get sick. This is probably what happened to my horse. She hadn't left the yard, but she lived with horses who were regularly going to shows, fun rides, etc.

The gutteral pouch endoscopy -- a PCR test once it gets to the lab -- is the gold standard because not only does it accurately test for an active infection, it also picks up whether or not a horse is a carrier. The blood test does neither of these. It's also problematic because the antibodies don't show up until two weeks after exposure. So if your horse has an active infection that could be transmitted to other horses, the ELISA test might not see it.

It's also a little impractical because it's invasive and expensive. It's not really feasible for yards to require one any time someone moves a horse (though I know of one that does).

A horse at a dealer's yard is around a lot of horses moving in and out from wherever. It could easily have a mild exposure and therefore antibodies, but it's also likely that it could harbour active infection.

If it was me, I would suck it for the gutteral pouch endoscopy, but I would try to get my money back if that turned out positive.
 
if the horse is shown to be a carrier after guttural pouch test, the dealer may well offer to just pay themselves for the horse to be sorted. The blood test shows antibodies so could have just come into contact with it in the past. Probably nothing to worry about but ask the dealer what would happen in that scenario and then you know!
 
Red-1 said:
Many horses are positive on bloods. Hopefully the guttural pouch test is clear.

Obviously, you are wishing you hadn't paid full price before getting the full vetting tests. I would imagine the law would be on your side rather than the dealers if the horse is a carrier, as the horse is not of merchantable quality. The ease of getting the money back will depend on the dealer!

Plus, as I said, if you like the horse you could allow the dealer to deal with washes etc until the horse is clear.
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If the dealer refuses to break the deal, what can be done in such a case? Only a court case? Isn't it more expensive to go to court?
 
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