Strong horse, weak rider!

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Lauren_abigail

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Hi all, looking for a bit of advice (sorry in advance if this is long winded)

My gelding Jack, 6yrs section d x warmblood has a habit of using his neck against me.

If he doesn't feel like working, he sets himself against me and leans. He doesn't ****** off with me (most of the time) but I find it really difficult to keep him moving forward and round, there is no bend at all. He is better on one rein than the other.

I have regular lessons with a PSG instructor, and she got on him last weekend for me as I was struggling. She got him working really nicely, and told me that I simply need to be stronger in my aids when asking him to bend, and then I can relax the contact and push him forward.

This is easier said than done; I have fibromyalgia which causes horrendous joint pain and fatigue. Some days it's totally manageable but others it's just not possible. So when Jack decides he doesn't fancy doing any work (like tonight) I physically can't ask him to bend properly, either through my hand or leg.

Does anyone have any experience of this? Or anyone with fibro that rides have any tips on how to make it easier?

I feel so disheartened, half of me is debating whether to sell him and get something more suitable. But I love the little ****** to bits, I would really rather not have to go down that route.

Just as a side note, he is all up to date with back, saddle, teeth etc. and I consistently use transitions to get him off his forehand etc but it just doesn't seem to be helping.
 
Could your instructor recommend a change in bit to something that he would be less inclined to lean on? Possibly something stronger, but even a change in shape or jointed ness may make a difference. Not normally the first place to go, but it sounds like you have already investigated many of the training options...
Also, have you considered consulting with an RDA instructor/ Paralympic coach? They may have a more specific understanding of how to help you work within your physical limitations or training ideas for getting the horse more responsive to the aids you are consistently capable of giving.
 
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I've been there with both issues. My horse at that age was a s*** to ride. He would set his neck and rush off to avoid working properly. I also have fibromyalgia. With him I found the key was to make it harder for him so if he tried to lean and tank then I would make him circle and circle and circle til he relaxed and then send him forward again. No idea if that was the right thing to do but for me it worked well as he soon realised that rushing off meant it was harder on him in the long run. If he's leaning on you though to hold him up then you need to do as your instructor has suggested. I went through alot of bits to find the right one for my horse but if leaning is the main issue and he otherwise has good brakes then something like a cherry roller maybe the ideal bit as he can't lean on that and take a hold against you. Regardless of the fibro a horse that learns his strength is always going to win if it comes down to a fight. Mine has come on hugely in the last couple of years and is now working well at prelim level dressage and schooling novice at home now. The one thing that is important to remember is that you need to keep your body as relaxed as possible as tension from you will go through to your horse as well and if you have a really bad day pain wise sometimes it's best not to ride at all. Pilates is good exercise out of the saddle to help with making you more aware of your body position out of the saddle as well as in it and learning when you are stiffening up/going tense.
 
Agree with Spike123 regarding circles. I use this for re-schooling horses, and was taught it when i had a number of years battling with myalgic encephalomyelitis (muscle pain and fatigue) - I just couldn't have a horse pull on me, so it wasn't allowed to. I certainly couldn't use strong aids, as I Everytime anything took a hold (for whatever reason) it went on a small circle ----small enough to make them work hard at that pace; sometimes when i say small circle people still sometimes go round on a 20m circle even at walk. Don't worry about asking for bend if they are being strong, just keep turning; then, when they start listening, you can ask for bend without using much effort.
Also lots of transitions, using the circle to slow down or stop if they won't listen to your aids. As spike123 says, they usually don't like to work hard and soon get the idea that it is easier to work nicely not on the circle than to work really hard on a small one. Also helps with their balance; they are usually more responsive when they find something easy. This training allowed me to keep eventing (even though i suffered for it painwise after each time!) as my horses would go cross country in a snaffle without pulling.
another option might be to get someone to train him to be more responsive; basically he is not accepting the aids so having some schooling for him may make it easier for you but i realise this costs a lot and may not be an option.
It is funny how some horses with personality get under your skin and you love them regardless even if you could trade them for a 'better' horse suitability wise. Good luck.
 
I have thought about a change in bit but i want something dressage legal go school him in. He is currently in a hangings cheek nuele schule with a lozenge which he seems to go well in. I tried him in a verbidend which he hated. I use a gag to jump him in which is better but cannot use this for dressage.

I'll try circling him next him he gets full of himself and see how that goes.

I hadn't really thought about an RDA instructor, it may be something to look into!
 
I think I would look for a different instructor, not necessarily an RDA or para coach but certainly someone a little more sympathetic, maybe a classical type trainer would be a better idea.

Trying to pitch a strong horse against stronger aids would not be ideal. The horse will always be stronger and this is where we end up with bigger bits, riders with arms and legs of steel with no finesse and everything becoming a battle of tug and war when really things could be kept a lot simpler.

Where abouts are you OP? Perhaps someone could give a recommendation
 
Wheels said:
I think I would look for a different instructor, not necessarily an RDA or para coach but certainly someone a little more sympathetic, maybe a classical type trainer would be a better idea.

Trying to pitch a strong horse against stronger aids would not be ideal. The horse will always be stronger and this is where we end up with bigger bits, riders with arms and legs of steel with no finesse and everything becoming a battle of tug and war when really things could be kept a lot simpler.

Where abouts are you OP? Perhaps someone could give a recommendation
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Exactly, this is what I want to avoid. I don't want to over bit and fight constantly!

I'm in rugby, Warwickshire
 
I have various issues that means I have to manage myself very carefully .
We have a seven yo ID he's a strong chunky chap and a bit of a thug he's one of MrGS's hunters .
I would never have bought him for myself I do ride him ( for his training ) but limit it to what I can cope with .
If I had ended up with for my horse I would sell him theres no pleasure in being physically over horsed .
I have a TB and a very near TB for myself now they are light in the hand , smooth movers and easy in their backs and necks and not wide .
If I were you I would seriously consider selling to a rider who not affected by his way of going and buying a horse that really plays to your strengths .
The difference in your enjoyment would be huge .
 
Nick Dutton EET (Level II) BHSII (regt) - teaches in the Warwickshire area. He's a classical trainer (EET is Heather Moffett's training qualification) and is a very understanding, fun instructor. Lessons with him never felt like lessons, even though we came on in leaps and bounds. Sadly had to give them up but if I was to have lessons again I'd only ever use Nick.

Mob: 07960 641552
Email: nick.dut@googlemail.com
 
double bridle?
Some horses will just do the minimum amount of work they are are allowed to, so used by a skilful rider I can't see the harm. I have ridden a schoolmaster trained to GP, he is a bit lazy and goes much better in a double, does not mean I am riding with arms of steel. Quite the contrary actually, I am not a very strong rider but I did work a lot on the lunge at the beginning to have independent hands/seat as much as possible.
 
Palindrome said:
double bridle?
Some horses will just do the minimum amount of work they are are allowed to, so used by a skilful rider I can't see the harm. I have ridden a schoolmaster trained to GP, he is a bit lazy and goes much better in a double, does not mean I am riding with arms of steel. Quite the contrary actually, I am not a very strong rider but I did work a lot on the lunge at the beginning to have independent hands/seat as much as possible.
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I'm a bit dubious about putting him in a double at the moment, I'm not sure I want to overbit him, I would rather just be able to teach lightness of aids to enable him to become lighter in my hand.

He has always had a hard-ish mouth (the unfortunate outcome of the lady that broke him hauling in his gob!) I would love to be able to get him lighter in his mouth.

Anyone have any ideas?
 
Lauren_abigail said:
I'm a bit dubious about putting him in a double at the moment, I'm not sure I want to overbit him, I would rather just be able to teach lightness of aids to enable him to become lighter in my hand.

He has always had a hard-ish mouth (the unfortunate outcome of the lady that broke him hauling in his gob!) I would love to be able to get him lighter in his mouth.

Anyone have any ideas?
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It sounds like you need an instructor/trainer who can help train him to be lighter and more responsive to the aids and/or to teach you how to do this. It is tricky to do this by just writing it down as there are so many variables as well as limited space.
 
nato said:
Bumping this as I'm experiencing a similiar issue and am interested to see the responses :)
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Nato, I've been recommended an instructor in the Daventry area who specialises in working on lightness of the horse. I've done a bit of research and I'm quite impressed by what I've read. I've booked a lesson for the end of this month so I'll keep you updated on how this goes! What area are you in? I can send some details across if you like?

NB: thanks to Wheels for the recommendation!
 
Oh thanks Lauren - unfortunately, I'm in Ireland :( However I'd be really interested to hear how you get on, and any tips you can give after your lesson? Hopefully it goes well!

I have a super instructor here, but between one thing and another, haven't been able to get round to a lesson in a while - have booked one for next week so maybe we can swap insights :)
 
He is quite young still and those types do mature late... You don't think he gets unbalanced or tired and leans because of that?
My first port of call would be a different instructor to help you teach him strength in his body and lightness off the aids. If that doesn't work then they may have suggestions on bitting.
I have arthritis and I'm as weak as they come and I ride a TB who is a light ride but still probably a smidge tall and leggy for me but I did Yoga to stengthen myself up which helped.
I think considering a new horse is a bit dramatic at this stage when there are other things you can try to lighten your guy up first :).
 
Firewell said:
He is quite young still and those types do mature late... You don't think he gets unbalanced or tired and leans because of that?
My first port of call would be a different instructor to help you teach him strength in his body and lightness off the aids. If that doesn't work then they may have suggestions on bitting.
I have arthritis and I'm as weak as they come and I ride a TB who is a light ride but still probably a smidge tall and leggy for me but I did Yoga to stengthen myself up which helped.
I think considering a new horse is a bit dramatic at this stage when there are other things you can try to lighten your guy up first :).
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Yes, I think you're right, perhaps being a bit overdramatic. Not sure I could actually sell him anyway, it would break my heart!

He is 6, nearly 7, so still maturing. I've booked a lesson with Derek Clark of holistic equitation who apparently is renowned for teaching lightness of aids, so I'm hoping for some progression :)

I recently did an equine pilates class and thought it was fab, I think I'm going to start pilates regularly to strengthen my core which I'm sure will help.
 
I'm going to offer a different approach... Go back to basics and get your horse going off voice commands from the ground. Use rewards to keep him motivated. In particular, if you have a fairly small arena to use, you don't even need to have a lunge line attacjed - learn to free lunge - and you'll just need to have a whip to wave about and a finger to point with and your voice... Once your horse goes forward off a click, when he leans, you'll just need to click and he'll stop.

One of the issues you'll be having is that he will always win if he leans and you can't really respond... So as someone who is weaker, you need to find ways around the issue that don't permit you to give in and end up reinforcing the unwanted behaviour. Being able to click to get a horse going forward and use voice to slow too alleviates that problem and means you can then work on very light aids from your body.
 
I'm also in Rugby, and was recommended Liz Fellows as an instructor - apparently she's excellent. Didn't manage to try her but may be another name for the books?
 
Lauren_abigail said:
Nato, I've been recommended an instructor in the Daventry area who specialises in working on lightness of the horse. I've done a bit of research and I'm quite impressed by what I've read. I've booked a lesson for the end of this month so I'll keep you updated on how this goes! What area are you in? I can send some details across if you like?

NB: thanks to Wheels for the recommendation!
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Assume you mean Derek Clarke at Preston capes, good luck with that.
 
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