Strongest bit for Prince Philip Cup Games?

dsth

dsth

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Sorry if i am in wrong section i am new! We have a lovely, fun games pony who is super fast and super strong - need a stronger bit than a snaffle but we are very limited by the rules for Mounted Games, can anyone recommend the strongest snaffle allowed, am thinking Hanging Cheek just wondered if anyone could recommend anything else or confirm Hanging Cheek, we use a flash noseband as he opens his mouth and gets his tongue over the bit otherwise, he is a little pickle - only 11hh! I must sort for wednesday thank you ;) This little pony runs away and has poor steering with eggbutt in as at present, he has a great little rider on him but some brakes would be nice!;)
 
ok a hanging cheeky but with a double joint might work

here are the rules

17. BITS
The bit must be a plain snaffle with a straight bar single or double joint in the middle. The mouthpiece
must be smooth all round. Bits of nylon or other synthetic material are permitted, should be black, brown
or white and must be used in their manufactured condition without any addition to/or on any part. Only
the bits illustrated are permitted at Area level and above, they may be used with any of the cheeks or
rings illustrated. Dr. Bristol and Fulmer snaffles are NOT allowed. Bit Guards shall be black or brown,
smooth on both sides and should only be used if necessary.
Thin Bits – In the opinion of the Chief Steward and the Tack Officials, bits deemed to be
excessively thin in the mouthpiece will not be accepted.
Hackamores and bitless bridles are NOT allowed.
Unless bits follow the configuration of those illustrated below they are not permitted.
1.
Loose ring snaffle
2.a Snaffle with double-jointed mouthpiece (French link)
2.b Snaffle with double-jointed mouthpiece
2.c Snaffle with double-jointed mouthpiece with Lozenge
3.
Egg-butt snaffle
4.
Racing snaffle D-ring
5.
Hanging cheek snaffle
6.
Straight bar snaffle. Permitted also with Mullen mouth & egg butt rings.
7.
Snaffle with rotating mouthpiece
8.
Double jointed with roller in the centre
9.
Un-jointed wavy snaffle (plastic or rubber only).
 
What if you just taught the pony to do the races over and over so the child just has to sit there and pick up/ put down.

I had a very strong games pony who was also very fast, we juts taught him the races so we didn't actually need to stop just aimed at one of our team mates when we did need to stop. :p

But a hanging cheek may be a good idea. If child is under 10 I think you can use any bit.
 
HollyandIvy thanx so much for that -was looking for the exact rules myself, Trainer recommends Hanging Cheek but we both agreed it wont make much difference as far as we can tell he is strong & fizzy like a little bottle of coke all shook up and throroughly enjoys himself - its the finish line thats the issue and the smaller ringsize obviously at competions! Wednesday is final decision training session over which races before competition on saturday thats the rush - Thanks again :D
 
Thanks "Kokopelli" I told my son this year that we cannot fit in both Tetrathlon & Games like last summer he must choose - he chose Mounted Games, he just loves it and the speed involved typical boy! Its tremendous fun, last season we borrowed a "kick on but accurate" pony this year we are using my younger sons pony who you cant kick on at all hence no brakes! He cant use hisown pony he cant wait for his turn at the Start Line plus at
14hh he is bigger to vault on :o
 
Having just had to pull my son out of the MG team because of the tack rules, I feel your pain. There are no concessions, and we managed to transgress on 3 points :o, and I wasn't going to make 3 changes to a fairly green pony when what we currently do works for him. Personally I think the tack rules for MG are outdated - the way the kids have to haul on some of the ponies' mouths to stop once they are wound up, it is probably worse for the ponies being in snaffles than if they had something a bit stronger which required less of a yank. Our pony isn't strong as such, and goes best in a Cambridge snaffle - not allowed, although it is very mild. My son rides him in a Solution treeless saddle - not allowed, although when I carry out tack checks I regularly see badly fitting treed saddles which are ok according to the pc rules, as long as it doesn't press on the withers:confused:

Another parent has had to change her pony's full cheek snaffle because that's not allowed either!

Sorry, i do get fed up with the Pony Club :mad:
 
I have my games pony in a very thin loose ring double jointed snaffle. She has much better breaks than in hanging cheek. I found in the hanging cheek she leaned too much. Also maybe try standing martingale/or grackle noseband if he sets his jaw? Good luck.

Kokopelli its only pony club games that have an age limit. Mounted games association has no upper age limit and riders well over 30 are still playing and are at the top of their game.
 
hehe you should I love it! www.mgagb.co.uk is the website, you could always go and watch if there is a compeititon near you.

Was also thinking, if the pony has a standing martingale you could try putting some pressure on the martingale when stopping so its not all about pulling the ponys' teeth out ( so to speak :P )
 
One of the MG rider's borrowed a W mouth gag for training at home, and then switched to a snaffle for comps, which could be a possibility?

Could you warm up in a stronger bit?
 
Lovely to hear your son enjoys games so much. I train our Pony Club team in NZ we won area games and came 3rd in zones - sadly we don't have a big final like you do in UK.

The hanging cheek will be the best, with a Flash noseband and a standing martingale.

To assist with the breaks - teach the pony the games in walk until he will quietly stop and start where required.

as far as the arena goes - there is a stipulated size and I always thought this had to be adhered to - for safety reasons as well as ease of playing the games.

Make sure that he doesn't leave the games area before the game is completed otherwise the team gets eliminated.

I usually put the ponies that are hard to stop at the end of the game so they have no handover to worry about. The rider can then concentrate on staying in control.

Our NZ kids are lucky as they can play PC games at competition level until 21yrs old - then they can go on to compete in MGA competitions. I so envy them being able to play games - I loved them as a kid. Great for instilling confidence, balance and just about any pony can do them with training. I spent the whole of the week of Horse of the Year (NZ) watching their games - the veterans were hilarious and the riders really enjoyed themselves despite having mounting problems and a crash between two riders - they saw stars but were OK. The younger riders are amazing - the speed and skill is unbelievable. The NZ team heading to Europe is really good so watch out other teams - two riders are from our Pony Club area and one is an ex Brit and Prince Phillip cup team member.

Hope your son has great fun this season.
 
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Kids would haul whatever they were in, and in a pelham would do more damage! Hanging cheek snaffle seems to be the accepted strongest bit.
I suggest if you are fed up with the rules go and challenge them at the highest level, write to the PC HQ and enquire regarding their reasons for not allowing treeless (I wouldn't want to ride games in a treeless though as I have a preconception that they might slip more?)
Pony training should be the key over bitting, but it has to be accepted it is a brutal sport really on the ponies.
 
SusieT said:
Kids would haul whatever they were in, and in a pelham would do more damage! Hanging cheek snaffle seems to be the accepted strongest bit.
I suggest if you are fed up with the rules go and challenge them at the highest level, write to the PC HQ and enquire regarding their reasons for not allowing treeless (I wouldn't want to ride games in a treeless though as I have a preconception that they might slip more?)
Pony training should be the key over bitting, but it has to be accepted it is a brutal sport really on the ponies.
Click to expand...

It's all good and well say train the pony but the problem is these ponies know when they are in a race and no matter what amount of training you do that will never go and in MGA you don't want it to go as they adrenalin takes over.
My pony used to rear on the start line then launch himself down the field, he was untouchable but I couldn't stop and no amount of training would have stopped that.
 
Yes, its a brutal game-any sport where ponies are getting very stressed (enough to rear) couched as 'excited' and hauled around tight turns is physically demanding and fairly brutal-there's a reason these ponies have mouths like leather after a season of games.
 
SusieT said:
Yes, its a brutal game-any sport where ponies are getting very stressed (enough to rear) couched as 'excited' and hauled around tight turns is physically demanding and fairly brutal-there's a reason these ponies have mouths like leather after a season of games.
Click to expand...

Sorry - that is rubbish - most of our team also do other disciplines their ponies don't have mouths like leather. The one thing the trainer says to them all the time - "stay off the mouth".

It is not a brutal sport any more than eventing is. The ponies do get excited and some do rear but it is pent up energy - not stress. The ponies are taught to turn tight and a lot of the game is played by the pony. When I started running games days at my riding school we taught all our school ponies to do the games - by doing them all at slow paces going on the same side of a pole, equipment and they soon learned the games and actually trashed the outside competition.
 
SusieT said:
Yes, its a brutal game-any sport where ponies are getting very stressed (enough to rear) couched as 'excited' and hauled around tight turns is physically demanding and fairly brutal-there's a reason these ponies have mouths like leather after a season of games.
Click to expand...

But often these ponies are either unsuitable as a first pony (as they are all quite small), not great jumping or have been outgrown either in ability or height of rider - they are doing a job which many ponies love.

And in fact, not all ponies are so stressed - some (nearly all) games ponies love it. Of course it is physically demanding, its pony club games!! Eventing is physically demanding too ;)

I think pony club games is a great sport. And lets face it, how many games ponies are used as dressage ponies?!
 
Of course it is-the children kick like hell. They pull the ponies round the top and at the end often fight to get stopped. None of this is gentle. This is generalising of course, but I'd say that's how at least 50% are riding.
In eventing the aim is to get the aids as subtle as possible, there might be say 10% of the fences where a decent rider has to do a bit of a pull round.
There is no line between stress/excitement. We call it excitement as that is what the kids feel, it is great fun for them. The ponies are on a knife edge of pent up tension, hence it's brutal.
Not neccesarily saying it's a welfare issue but it is not a gentle or pony-friendly sport particularly. Maybe you have a particularly good team/players? Who appreciate a lot of it is down to your body position?
 
SusieT said:
Yes, its a brutal game-any sport where ponies are getting very stressed (enough to rear) couched as 'excited' and hauled around tight turns is physically demanding and fairly brutal-there's a reason these ponies have mouths like leather after a season of games.
Click to expand...

That's funny because my pony also competed succesfully at dressage regulary getting late 60s/ early 70s scores so he obviously didn't have a mouth like leather.

He loved games you can see it in his face, although he hated dressage you might say its cruel to do dressage as he always got bored.

Games isn't a walk in the park but it's far from cruel the ponies and riders love it and tbh I don't think you should have such a strong and generalised opinion on something which you don't seem to know much about.
 
Well said Kokopelli. People must also remember a lot of games ponys are the 'duds' that eventing/showjumping etc didnt want. games gives them an outlet other than the meat market which is were my first games pony would of been if I hadnt of got him as he was branded as 'useless' by instructors because he didnt want to jump. I did games on him for a couple of years and one day decided to do the jumps set up in the field. The pony has jumped every since and competed in almost every displine, winning working hunter and show hunter classes at county level.

As for all mouths being like leather thats a load of waffle. Yes there is always the minority on the sports that haul constantly and hang on the ponies mouths and in excitment it is hard to keep a young child from pulling hard. Remember in other disaplines if a pony is strong you can just shove a gag or much more severe bit in their mouths to keep them. Look at all the ponies in the country, you cannot say games riders are worse than others. Take polo for instance, almost all polo ponies are ridden in gags or double bridles and standing martingales.

Once the children get a bit older they learn the skills of games and they become better riders. Games teaches balance and teamwork and lets kids have fun. Its not like showjumping where if they knock a pole down its over. In games you can shug off what went wrong and can comeback to win the next race.

Children, despite what you may think, are told to voice train there ponies so they dont hurt their ponies mouths and you can watch at top levels many riders hardly keep a contact on their ponies mouths.

Sorry for the rant but games for me is a sport which I enjoy and I feel more accepted than I did when I competed in showjumping and working hunter. My pony is ridden in a simple loose ring snaffle and uses this tack for everything, including doing fun jumping with a 10 year old novice pony club child.
 
JenniMorris said:
Well said Kokopelli. People must also remember a lot of games ponys are the 'duds' that eventing/showjumping etc didnt want. games gives them an outlet other than the meat market which is were my first games pony would of been if I hadnt of got him as he was branded as 'useless' by instructors because he didnt want to jump. I did games on him for a couple of years and one day decided to do the jumps set up in the field. The pony has jumped every since and competed in almost every displine, winning working hunter and show hunter classes at county level.
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Well said, Sparky my games pony was about to be PTS as he threw everyone off. He was 12hh of little terror, he just needed someone big enough to squish him so he couldn't misbehave and once he had the outlet that was games he turned into a fabulous pony who I believe is now scurry driving. :D
 
Having watched area finals for the prince Philip cup and the heats at hoys, I can't recall seeing any hauling or brutality, in fact I can honestly say I have always been impressed by the skill, patience and horsemanship shown by some very young children. It brings a tear to my eye every time........
 
Did I say it shouldn't happen? no. Did I say these ponies should be out doing first ridden? No. Still not an excuse for being rough with your ponies. But for me it needs further thought than 'you can tell which ones are loving it' or 'you can see it in their face' when said ponies are displaying all the signs of tension, ears back, not standing still, rearing, bolting etc.
Take the ponies-whose children never unknot their reins, they don't stretch their heads the entire games session. How are you glossing over the booting the ponies up the line/to the finish, dragging the slow ponies along by hand whilst running on the stepping stones etc. etc. as being pony friendly acts? What other sport do you have to ban kicking the pony in the belly from the ground/any bits stronger than a snaffle?
It is something I know plenty about, I would suggest those who think it is a nice fun fluffy sport where ponies are not being dragged about a lot are those who don't really think about what they are seeing beyond anthromorphosis. Watch a pony showjumping or dressage who is enjoying their sport and they look much different.
It certainly provides many ponies with an outlet, and is not a bad sport as such-but needs awareness and the ability of people to train kids to use their body weight as opposed to heels and hands.
(The really good /sensitive kids can be seen quite clearly with ponies that respond to the lightest touch, and they do mainly use their bodies to steer, control speed and turn)
Don't get me started on Polo.
 
SuzieT you are so out of your depth here. You obviously don't understand or know how a games pony is trained.

Reins are knotted up high to allow the rider to stop & turn with the minimum of pressure and ease. Many of the games involve picking up or putting down objects so the rider has only one hand to steer and stop the pony. The pony is more than able to stretch its neck out if it needs too - but like most disciplines when the pony is on it's hocks the neck is raised and the shoulders lighter. If one of my teams ponies could get back on his hocks in dressage as he does in games he would be a top dressage pony - but just remembered - the same pony won the dressage title at the winter series - is a succesful eventing pony and show jumper - all trained by the one child.

There is no rule that specifically points to not kicking the pony in the belly - any rider caught doing that would contravene the rules in any discipline.

Snaffle bits are insisted on to ensure all riders are equal - cheeked bits are not allowed because of the risk of getting hooked up on equipment or rider. Dressage insists on snaffle bits too.

The majority of ponies stand quietly at the start and it is only the odd pony that rears - No one says Ready Steady Go anymore so the pony has no intense build up to the start. Starters will often wait until ALL ponies are standing quietly and riders are allowed to have someone hold their pony if it is being unruly.
HAve a look at these pics from NZ North Island Zones
No pulling on this pony
http://www.nzequine.co.nz/#/gallery/nzpca-zone-2-games/dsc08337-705x472/

No pulling or hauling on mouth going on here
http://www.nzequine.co.nz/#/gallery/nzpca-zone-2-games/dsc08277-968x648/

Or here - handing over to the next rider
http://www.nzequine.co.nz/#/gallery/nzpca-zone-2-games/dsc08202-648x968/

Is she hauling on the pony in this tight turn - no ! time has been spent training the pony to do the game
http://www.nzequine.co.nz/#/gallery/nzpca-zone-2-games/dsc08360-968x648/

One of my own team about to put a mug on a pole - no hauling going on here either!
http://www.nzequine.co.nz/#/gallery/nzpca-zone-2-games/dsc08182-968x648/

Or here
http://www.nzequine.co.nz/#/gallery/nzpca-zone-2-games/dsc08140-968x648/

And dear Wildfire who in his mid 20's fires up to do games with his young rider. We sadly lost him a few weeks later - he died in his owners arms.
http://www.nzequine.co.nz/#/gallery/nzpca-zone-2-games/dsc08112-968x648/

A selection of children and ponies from a large area of New Zealand.
 
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