Structuring Training

Ambers Echo

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I go to a fair few XC/SJ clinics and they tend to follow the same format: Work in, then jump a few warm up fences then start linking fences together. Occasionally the jumps stay low because you are working on something technical in between the fences. But more often the jumps go up to about 2/3rd the height the people in the lesson compete (so 60-70 for me) and gradually increase in height through the clinic so we are jumping the biggest fences at the end of the lesson - ie 90/100 for me.

In other words we are jumping the biggest when we are the tiredest?

Other sports don't do this: you plan your main objective of the session which will be the 'main set' and you do it straight after the warm up when you are fresh mentally and physically. And there is a long warm down afterwards too.

Maybe clinics aren't really about fitness/strength training of the horse but about confidence and fun for the rider? But then when and how do people train for fitness and strength? I literally only ever ride round a course of jumps (XC or SJ) at a clinic because we don't have those facilities at home.

Thoughts?
 

TheMule

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I think it's difficult in a clinic environment- the trainer often hasn't trained everyone in the group before so will be naturally a little cautious- and most people prefer to build up gradually for their own confidence.
The best trainers IMHO will get you warmed up and then jumping at the height advertised and then change the exercises rather than the height. There are situations where repeating the same exercises but higher has its use, but it's a fairly generic and lazy style of teaching.
 

Ambers Echo

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Yes I can totally see why it is set up that way but I am not sure how to get round it! Private clinics are prohibitively expensive and when I just hire an arena I tend to play things very safe. I really do need the instruction from the ground. I might speak to the trainer I usually go to and ask about strength and fitness training.

They don't necessarily repeat the same jumps - they set new lines etc - but it goes from low to medium to high with the highest jumps at the end.
 

Red-1

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I have followed this style when training XC. Usually we jump bigger at the end because people have gained from the lesson, and have improved.

We start with balance on the flat/hillside as it is amazing how people want to jump on a hillside but can't canter on a hillside.

Keeping balance and rhythm is key, and once we have worked on that we can do bigger fences. Not sure why that would be a surprise!
 

Ambers Echo

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It's not a surprise exactly - I've had lessons like that all my riding life. It just stuck me that it is very different to other sports where you don't build up through the lesson but you work at the level you are at from after the warm up. I just wondered whether that might be useful sometimes as well as the gradual building up lessons.

I like Mule's idea of choosing a height - say 90cm - and working at that height from the start. After all that is what you have to do in competition.
 

Red-1

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I think that to improve, for example take my example of balance on a hillside, and you change stuff, then you have to simplify the exercise whilst someone grasps and practices a new way of doing something.

So, in the warm up, which would include simple jumps, I would identify what needs to change. Say the horse is unbalanced and rushing downhill. Then we would deconstruct the issue and work on a new and improved way of doing it. So, starting on cantering on increasing slopes, with balance and being able to re-balance. Then small fences, balancing and rebalancing. Then we would take the new way and make the fences bigger. I would not identify that there is an issue with balance and wang people over big fences downhill.

That is a very simplified version!

Of course, if we are working on "different" fences, steps, drops, into-space, water, ditches etc you keep it small to keep confidence. Once the horse has technique, confidence, balance, rhythm and relaxation then they can go bigger.

I agree with Mule also, even if it is a regular client, it is likely not as frequent that we go XC and I need to see that all is well before putting fences up.

With less experienced riders I also find that they need to "get their blood up" before the fences go up.

I would also say that I finish the XC lesson before the horse is 'bottomed' so it is not like the horse is well tired when going over the bigger fences.
 

catkin

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I've not thought of clinics as strength and fitness training - that's done elsewhere, all those long hours of hill work, road work and interval training for example.
The clinic is in effect a technique lesson - so you 'finish on a high note' and then the warm-down is afterwards, outside of the lesson. Different mindset, at least for me. I'm also prepared to end a session early if we've done what we wanted.
 

oldie48

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I don't jump myself but have accompanied my daughter to lots of XC and SJ clinics over the years both in groups and individual. We were fortunate to have access to excellent experienced trainers and I can honestly say i never saw rider or mount tired at the end of the session but I did see them finish the sessions by tackling something they would have found challenging if presented as the first task. However, we took fitness and strength training seriously and she did more flatwork training, work on the gallops etc than she did actual jumping. eg we very rarely jumped at home. After a session she cooled the horse down by herself, I think I would have objected to paying an expensive trainer to watch her do that but perhaps I'm penny pinching! I am not sure that height of the fences is that important in lessons either, her lessons concentrated more on technique, quality of canter, being able to shorten and lengthen, use the corners correctly etc, XC it was different but jumping a small fence gave the partnership a bit more margin for error, which I think is a good thing.
 

Bernster

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I don’t have experience of other sports’ approaches to this but I do a fair amount of clinics and they have all followed that format.

Given the tiddly height I jump I think they are a lot about confidence and fun as well as learning how to jump certain types of fences and linking them together. I haven’t felt like either of us is too tired by the time we get to the ‘bigger’ stuff though.

i have sometimes felt like I didn’t get as much out of a clinic as I had wanted to but it’s hard in a mixed group with a new instructor. I’ve decided to reduce the number of jump trainers I have now. It also doesn’t really help with any napping issues, which we needed to work on this year in a comp environment. Ideally I’d have solo lessons but not as easy to arrange for xc!
 

JFTDWS

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I agree with the earlier comment - it's not really about strength training like in the sports you describe, it's about technique and skillsets. Most trainers need to check the competence of the riders in the group before building the fences up and letting them at it, and most riders (and sometimes horses) need to develop their confidence and skills / judgement before they're capable of making the best of the bigger fences. They're just not the same sorts of sport.

That said, most groups are advertised around here with heights, or grouped by height, so that if you're competing at 90, you may start over a cross pole / little fence (as is good practice for the horse physically), then work over some smaller fences (70-80 - as is often useful for rider and horse for skills training / complexity / alterations in style / getting the horse and rider in gear if they don't do a lot of jumping at home), then build up to the biggest fences at the end of the session - before the horse is cooked, but after the horse and rider have fully prepared for those fences. If you're finding the sessions a bit slow, perhaps it's time to move up a group - so you start with the cross pole, move onto 80-90cm jumps for your work and develop on to bigger fences (which, of course, can always be sat out if the horse / rider isn't ready for them).
 

Jnhuk

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We have one respected XC trainer up here, it is about the adjustability of being able to change between your canters and setting up exercises to get horses to think for themselves as well rather than being about the height. This trainer also is the only one that I have seen that can teach varying abilities in the same group as he alters things to suit the individual.
 

Alibear

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You can bet people would moan if they paid good money for a warm down after jumping, you can do that yourself once the session has finished if you want and it just doesn't seem to be something many people do at a clinic. Perhaps its us riders missing it out, would should mooch round the lorry park for a bit before we get off?
 

Ambers Echo

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I think advice on how to warm down would be useful? I don't know if equine athletes are the same as human ones but warming down properly is quite important in people. It is not max effort and then just walk around for a bit but is much more gradual. But with many clinics you are pretty much kicked off the arena the minute your session ends as the next groups are coming in so there is no opportunity for a gradual warm down. Perhaps horses don't need that? What do work-riders do at the end of a session for the pro horses?

I am trying to structure my training a bit more and so am looking into how/what/where. I think people are right in saying clinics are really about teaching riders technical skills and confidence. So I think I need to find other ways to build up strength and strength-endurance.
 

Red-1

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I think advice on how to warm down would be useful? I don't know if equine athletes are the same as human ones but warming down properly is quite important in people. It is not max effort and then just walk around for a bit but is much more gradual. But with many clinics you are pretty much kicked off the arena the minute your session ends as the next groups are coming in so there is no opportunity for a gradual warm down. Perhaps horses don't need that? What do work-riders do at the end of a session for the pro horses?

I am trying to structure my training a bit more and so am looking into how/what/where. I think people are right in saying clinics are really about teaching riders technical skills and confidence. So I think I need to find other ways to build up strength and strength-endurance.


I am not sure what area you are in, but near me I can hire gallops for when the weather is inclement, and also as a measured distance for getting the feel of different distances.

We are short of hills here, so I box out to do hill work too.

If your lesson is somewhere like Sommerford, could you hire the farm ride after your lesson s you can do a more tailored cool down?

When I was eventing at my most serious I actually did the majority of my fitness in a large field that was on a slope. We would in-disperse dressage work (on the hillside as what event dressage arena is flat?) with interval training. I would do X minutes at a fast canter round the outer field, then X recovery. I tailored my plan to ensure that the t=recovery got quicker before upping the work. By the time we had done the work cycle could be fast, the recovery fast, and the repetitions no issue. It was also handy that the field was a 40 min hack away at walk/ a little bit of trot, so we did road work/ work on tracks too. This would be 3 or 4 times a week, so some days harder than others, always looking for the horse to find it easier and easier. We only did arena work for jumping really, and only then because the field we used had no jumps as it was set-aside.
 

Ambers Echo

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That's really helpful, Red. Thanks. I can do interval training on a field near me but not at this time of year. I think hiring gallops may be the way to go.....
 

zaminda

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I use the gallops a lot, as one of mine does very little other than endurance. I find it gives a huge amount of structure, and I can work on a decent surface all year round regardless of weather. The one closest to me has just reopened and has a proper hill as well as a round gallop, so I can now do a good variety there. Its also about 3k from my field, so a good warm up and cool down.
This year I plan on keeping a fitness diary for each of them, and possibly for me too, which hopefully will improve how I structure my training.
 

sportsmansB

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As an answer to your question about what pro riders do to warm down, many will finish after a jumping session with some stretch work in trot/canter (depending on the horse) - and then wash them off and put them on the walker (in our case anyway). The horses have a more intense session than one of us would have in a clinic though as they aren't waiting for others to go, etc. A pro might ride a horse for 25 minutes, get on already warmed up on the walker or on the flat by a groom, jump loads of fences, do a bit of flatwork in between, jump loads more, and they are done. We spend 60-90 mins at a clinic in a group situation with pauses for explanations, others to take their turn, only jump a few specific lines at a time, etc.
 
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