Stubborn loader!

[Welshie95]

I spend days loading and unloading, feeding, grooming and tacking up etc in the trailer to get him used to going in, which he does after hours of persuading him to go in, which I repeat over and over to really drum the message in, however as soon as I try on show/lesson/going out for a hack day he point blank refuses! He doesn't do anything naughty per say, just walks up to the ramp and plants himself. He might put front feet on the ramp and swing himself off but the planting is more common.
I've tried the Monty Roberts pressure halter, lunge lines round the back and just sitting it out, but he just doesn't respond and I obviously want to make this easier for us both than arguing every time and having to ad an extra hour onto our travel time just in case he won't load. The last time we went out it took a grown man to lift his back end up to unbalance him so he had no choice but to move forwards to stay upright. He travels alone in a new 506 travelling as slowly and carefully as possible. Have tried all combinations of windows open/closed, putting him on both sides of the partition and without one and different haynet positions to see if this helps him become more "eager" to get on and nothing works. He travels brilliantly and quietly once in (bar standing still in traffic, he starts kicking out of impatience) so I don't even think that the experience is an issue, never had an accident in his life and we do a mix of competing, beach rides, hacking, clear rounds etc. so he doesn't anticipate anything he doesn't enjoy... any suggestions?!

 

[sychnant]

Make sure he's really "with" you when you are leading normally. If not, if he lags a bit, work on this first.

When you're happy that he's walking on well and really listening, then try loading. Walk purposefully towards the trailer, make sure you keep your head up and look into the trailer! Don't slow your pace or expect him to stop. Just expect him to go with you, and keep leading normally. Don't pull, or turn to look at him.

This worked really well for one of mine

 

[be positive]

It sounds as if he is always in control of the loading, it should not take hours if you have really got the message across, if every time you load you need to go back to the start he is taking control and doing pretty much as he wants, he may well be testing you and know the difference between practising and the going out to a party days, you need to be in control of every loading session and by the end he should ideally be loading himself.
I would get some help, not someone lifting him in but someone who can show you how to use pressure and release so he goes in for himself, by himself and ends up actually wanting to load, most horses will learn to go in with no fuss once you get the technique right.

 

[meesha]

I once got stuck after a fun ride, 2.5 hours of trying to load. Lady was on way out, took pity on us and loaded him in ten mins. She had standard head collar and my v soft lead rope, attached clip of lead rope to top ring of head collar on one side, put rope through mouth then threaded it through head collar other side. She stood in the lorry and held rope (long lead rope) keeping pressure on until horse moved forward then immediately released, after ten mins he was in she then unloaded (to my horror) and reloaded couple of times. I had to use this method for a few months, he now loads with normal head collar nothing in mouth first time every time without fail.

Just to add, his mouth was not hurt he didn't enjoy the rope in mouth experience and did rear a few times but then again he had been rearing for the last couple of hours!!

I had done tonnes of practising with this horse before I went out and he had improved but this sorted it out. No whip no food, no shouting, no special gadgets!

 

[Ditchjumper2]

When we are out and about hunting I am also the one who gets called on if anything will not load. I use a lunge line and a cord halter. I walk confidently and expect them to go in. If they don't I maintain the pressure on the halter and when they move forward I relax it.

Confidence is key if you expect them not to load ....they won't!

I can't ride a dressage test but can load most horses!!

 

[LadySam]

Target work, where you teach the horse to touch a target with his nose can be useful. We had an ex-racer for rehabbing whose career ended mostly because she refused to load into the starting barriers. My boss taught her to touch a target (a riding helmet) - he was then able to move the helmet to places he wanted her to go. Into the trailer - she loaded straight on to touch the target. And to really prove his point he loaded her into the starting barriers in front of handlers who knew her as a racehorse. Calmly walked straight in. They couldn't believe it.

There's a bunch of how-to videos on YouTube if you want to look it up.

 

[Kaylum]

Clicker training is a brilliant way to get them to load as it actually takes their mind off the current situation and you can stay calm. You can use this in conjunction with target training. Usually start with the horse walking onto something before you start with the ramp for example a pallet but make the experience enjoyable not a pressured situation.

 

[Dry Rot]

Clicker training is a brilliant way to get them to load as it actually takes their mind off the current situation and you can stay calm. You can use this in conjunction with target training. Usually start with the horse walking onto something before you start with the ramp for example a pallet but make the experience enjoyable not a pressured situation.

Haven't tried clicker training but thoroughly agree about making the experience enjoyable. Horses don't have a natural fear of loading as I confirmed to myself the other day. My two weaned foals just followed me on with a bowl, then repeatedly loaded themselves with a handful of feed in the bowl on the floor. But they do not like to be forced and that's when the trouble starts. We do lots of feeding on the trailer during the early years, also pressure-and-release so they learn not to pull back when they are on. But never use force when training.

Do a search of the forum for "loading". This subject has been mentioned before!

 

[Antw23uk]

My friend took me to a sponsored ride a couple of years ago and I met and went with a lady I'd never met before .. Anyway we had a great laugh and enjoyed the day but when it came to loading her TB back in the trailer it wasnt having any of it. My friend/ driver had a windbreaker in her lorry and we both took a side each and she said to slowly walk up behind said horse to encourage them in .... It wasnt working so I just said ok WALK ON to her and we scooped the horse up and it went in within a second, bar across, ramp up, job done. We didnt ask, we told it.

Granted this could have gone wrong but it didnt. I wouldnt say I am recommending this method before everyone shoots me down but thats what we did once, lol! I think the horse was like ' THAT is not touching my bum'!!

 

[little_critter]

I'm not quite sure I understand. When you are doing your practice loading is he loading ok, but then gets worse again when you want to actually go somewhere?
Are you changing your 'attitude' when loading to go somewhere and unwittingly putting more pressure on him?
My mare will not tolerate any (mental) pressure, so those who want to 'march her up the ramp' will not succeed, I have to breath out, drop my shoulders and pretend I really don't care if she goes in or not.
Ditto if anyone offers to lend a hand, she feels she is being ganged up on.
I just have to keep walking to the ramp over and over again (I can feel her mentally resisting), but then one time she will 'let go' and just pop up the ramp like there is no issue at all.

 

[LadySam]

I'm not quite sure I understand. When you are doing your practice loading is he loading ok, but then gets worse again when you want to actually go somewhere?

No, she says it takes hours to convince him at home when practicing.

 

[little_critter]

So it sounds like the refusing to go in when they have somewhere to go is no different to the refusing to go in while practicing then.

 

[Welshie95]

So it sounds like the refusing to go in when they have somewhere to go is no different to the refusing to go in while practicing then.

Yes, it still takes me forever to get him on both at home and when going places, however at home after the first argument he will go on a lot quicker and without much thought to it when I repeat, but obviously when we are going places its the first time again so it takes us forever, if that makes sense?

 

[Welshie95]

Some great ideas guys thank you so much! I really want to be able to do this alone as not only do I want to go places and not get stuck at the other end just because I don't have a helper, but he is another who feels ganged up on when other people try to help, and although he has never ever kicked, he finds no problem in barging them out of his way with his quarters and I don't want anybody to get hurt.

 

[little_critter]

Yes, it still takes me forever to get him on both at home and when going places, however at home after the first argument he will go on a lot quicker and without much thought to it when I repeat, but obviously when we are going places its the first time again so it takes us forever, if that makes sense?

Mines the same (ish) she doesn't take anywhere near as long (probably the worst incident was 30 minutes, usually 5-10 minutes) but will never go straight in. However once she has gone in once, she will skip up the ramp again like there was never any problem!

 

[ljohnsonsj]

Cow halty, stand and hold the pressure and he will soon give in and walk up!

 

[Amye]

I feel your pain... I also have a stubborn loader.

Other people have given good advice. It used to take us about 2 hours to get mine on at first, we then just started feeding him his tea at the bottom of the ramp, then a bit further up, then in the lorry. Then he had to walk on and off the lorry to get his tea and then we removed the food and he had to walk on and off a couple of times then go back to his stable for his tea. He also plants and if put under too much pressure will back up/bunnyhop to gain the advantage and turn around.

At the yard, it was easy to take it bit by bit and just use his food as encouragement and not put him under too much pressure. He will now happily go on and off the lorry with no issues and we can get him on and tie him up and get him out.

Now the problem is when we are OUT. When trying to load at the other end he goes back to square one. He will plant at the bottom/on the ramp and refuse to move - if you push from behind he will just backup and pull - he knows he's stronger than you - he will plant and then look at something (nothing) like it is the most interesting thing in the world and you can't even get him to turn his head.
Last time we went out, the person who drove us helped us out. When he was just ignoring us and we couldnt move him she used a short stick to get him to move in small circles around her (didn't touch him with it just waved it to get is attention and get his feet to move in the direction we wanted) Then she would walk him to the ramp and he would plant, she would then keep the pressure on the headcollar (not lots as he will fight, just enough so that it's not relaxed) and when he moved slightly in the right direction, drop the pressure and give him big praise. Even when he tried to use his weight and pull away, still try and maintain that pressure. She said that she wasn't even thinking about loading him, she just wanted him to take a step. And then another step and then another (don't think about the end result yet). Eventually he just gave in and politely pottered up the ramp. We then repeated to drill it into his little brain

Inow thinking about getting a easy loader adapter thing to put on the headcollar to help with the pressure/release (the above was just done in a normal headcollar and leadrope and a short stick to get attention when needed) and to clicker train him to go on. He is food orientated and we clicker and target anyway in the school/stable but I think doing it in and out of the lorry might help as when we are out, he will already know what to do with the target - it is definitely something for you to look into if you haven't already!

 

[DD265]

Is there anything else he does that could be an indication of pain/discomfort? It seems odd to me that after so much effort he's not "learned" yet, so either he's not being taught in the right way for him or there's something else getting in the way.

A friend's mare was impossible to load, but had some physio and then became an angel.

 

[hairycob]

I'm in the process of arranging for someone to come & help me with my problem loader. If I'm practicing on the yard I can load him 10 or more times in a session with no problems at all but if we are going out (or coming home) he may go straight on, take a couple of attempts or be a complete bar steward. I think it must be my body language that needs adjusting so I'm getting help. Last time he just stood there and 2 people moved his feet 1 by 1 until he decided he would move forwards after all. He isn't "nasty" he either just swings his bum to the right or just stands there and looks at me with a "shan't" look on his face.

 

[irishdraft]

My horse can plant at the bottom of the ramp on occasion so what I do is clip a lunge rein to the right side of headcollar & bring the lunge rein around back of horse above hocks but below hindquarters then have leadrope clipped on left side of head collar then walk round in circles as if lungeing on 2 reins & then in effect lunge him into the trailor. I only have 2 clip the lunge rein on now if he thinks about planting & he walks straight in, I do travel him in a trailor with no partition so it's easy to lunge him into the trailor.

 

[Arniebear]

If he's never had an accident or bad journey then he's taking the piss and doesn't respect you. Go right back to basics on the ground work, if he doesn't respect you why should he load into a metal box? If the partnership and respect was there he would do as you ask no matter what that is, he would at least try for you that's the whole point of the relationship. By planting on the ramp he has control and is blatantly stating he doesn't respect you. No need to beat him up or anything just go right back to basics and get the respect back, make him go where you want him to go left, right, back forward etc over taupline, poles etc and then go back to the trailer and repeat it all again. Don't bribe with food, teach him who's boss, you should be the herd leader and he should follow you!

 

[Birker2020]

I have a horse who stopped loading after seven and a half years of it never being a problem, I am convinced this was due to a pet pig I showed him at a competition centre and he was so terrified of it he shook and trembled and I spent 3/4 hour that day loading him to go home after 7.5 years of him practically running onto the trailer! The next time we went to the same venue he stood staring at the pig pen and shaking and hiding behind the trailer.tried everything, took my horse to a Monty Roberts demo with limited sucess but then after a while he improved to the extent that the last twelve - 18 months or longer I've not had a problem, then over night the horse refused to go in the trailer again, this was in May this year. This coincided with turnout at grass (they only go out from May - October where I am now) and he didn't want to go out in the trailer in case he 'lost his timeslot out at grass' or this is what I had a strong suspicion about anyway.

So then if I wanted to compete or go up the local riding club I had to leave him standing in his stable with no/very minimal hay and no/very minimal breakfast and then give him a feed when I wanted to load to go somewhere (less than an hour later so it wasn't long for him to wait). This has worked really well and his loaded as he is hungry. Not ideal I know and not very BHS but hey ho, when you are desperate and all that........

This saturday I plan to load him mid morning to move to the new livery yard we are moving to and I am wondering whether he will load okay as he will have spent a morning out at grass and had his breakfast and won't be particuarly hungry. It's not an option to leave him in until I move as I need to do his stable before we go and transfer his shavings across.

I know what its like OP. I tried adding ventilation, and using a radio (for company) and these added things did make him load after the episodes of reluctance all those years ago, as did the dually.

 

[Welshie95]

Today is practice day again, I will let you know how we get on! I usually park behind the yard so its easier to pull away smoothly, that way he also doesn't see the trailer as I'm getting him ready to travel and start plotting. I'm hoping to hire an arena tomorrow just for some light schooling as he is only just coming back into work so more for his sake of getting out and about and learning it's not an issue to get excited about again before we attempt a few shows.

 

[Welshie95]

So yesterday we decided to load up and go for a hack, queue 30 minutes of rearing and pawing at the ramp, eventually with some pressure from behind from the lunge line and he sauntered in and stood quietly. Took him back off and repeated, hesitant at first but much better. Travelled for about 10 minutes, walked for an hour and played in the river and once again argued on the way home so repeated until he was better. Today we hired a local indoor arena, much less arguing from the onset and again when going home.. slowly but surely! Left the trailer out so we can practice tomorrow with dinner but not actually going anywhere.

 

[LinzyD]

I share your pain! It's so infuriating when you do all the 'right' things, take your time, train, train, train, and they still won't go in. I too have to be able to do it on my own. Here is a trick that is worth trying and that worked for me. It was shown to me by a yard manager in London many years ago. It's especially good for those that plant at the bottom of the ramp. Use a Monty Roberts headcollar. Thread a lunge line through one of the side rings of the loose nose strap, through the loop at the back, through the other side ring, over the poll and then fasten it to the side ring where you started, effectively creating a loop around the horse's head and nose. Lead the horse to the ramp. Let him stand still and straight at the bottom of the ramp. No pressure or urging to go up the ramp. Go up the ramp yourself, keeping hold of him by the lunge line but leaving him planted there, thread the loose end of the lunge line over a secure bar, i.e. a partition, breast-bar, something strong and immovable. When you are ready, pull the lunge line taught but without applying pressure (at this point I stand on the line so that if the horse goes backwards I have my full weight on the line. Then slowly pull down on the line as hard as you can - having the line over the bar means the force is greater than you would otherwise be able to apply on your own. The horse has no option but to go forwards to avoid the pressure. It's worth a try if he's just stubborn rather than frightened. Make sure you wear gloves. And, I wouldn't recommend it for a horse that is fearful or agitated or that is likely to panic once on board. It's for those moments of sheer stubbornness. Once he's on board make a monumental fuss of him and reward him. Mine runs up the ramp after me now, but I never start without setting things up with the MR headcollar and lunge line.

 

[Kezzabell2]

I'm sure you've tried it but, what does he do if you pick up his foot and move it for him? My horse literally just needs me to put his foot on the ramp then he walks up, if I don't do that he will just stand there looking at me!

 

[electric_circus]

One of mine can be a PITA to load. He came to us as a bad loader (it took the transporter three hours to load him from his previous home) and when we moved yards it was a bit hit and miss whether he would actually go onto the trailer... put it this way, I was preparing to hack!! He was not remotely frightened, he just didn't want to go on. But we persuaded him on eventually and I decided it was time to do something about it...

I bought a chifney and the tastiest horse treats I could find. They are called 'stud muffins' and are like horse crack. We spent an instructive (for him) morning practising loading while he worked out that it was very unpleasant to rear and back off the ramp as I would just stand and do nothing while he made life unpleasant for himself (passive resistance). If he went forward, he got a bit of horse crack as a reward. I always use the chifney with a separate lead rope and a headcollar so he always has a soft option available. Lots of praise and fuss (and more horse crack) when he went on. Rinse and repeat about 100 times. Now, he loads like a lamb. If you don't have the chifney on he will sometimes prat around, so I put it on him as a matter of course but have never had to use it since that day...