Stuck between a rock and a hard place

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Mrs G

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Help, advice required because im feeling desperate, apologies for v long post. Despite my best efforts i feel im failing my beloved boy. Hes a fit and healthy horse in his late teens and the love of my life but in winter he is incredibly hard to keep happy. I worry constantly about injury, ulcers, colic. He gets stressed by any change in routine, by the weather, by other horses coming and going. If hes out in the field and he gets upset, he fence walks/runs to the extreme, if hes stabled and one of the other horses goes out he digs up his bed, box walks, and stress poos. Once he is riled up hes then bargy, and very hard to handle. In summer hes a different horse but right now Im not sure if both of us will make it till then. Its the same every year but its getting harder for me physically and mentally and i dont know what else i can do. If he does get injured and needs rest/ box rest he would climb the walls so a serious injury would likely be life ending so i cant just leave him to it but equally i cant spend all day every day hand grazing him (which he will do happily for hours in wind/rain/on his own with no horses in sight). I cant afford another horse for company (i can barely afford him!) so thats something i cant try (theres no room at my yard for another anyway) and selling is not an option.
 
Have a virtual hug because that sounds exhausting. Have you ever tried him on a calmer? I only mention it because I had a mare that was similar and a calmer made a difference (it was a while ago now, so my memory is hazy, but it might have been TopSpec?). The other thing is,
when he's being bargy, I'd take that as rudeness. Mine was only 12hh so a lot easier to manage I'm sure, but I did expect manners even when she was losing her s*** over something.

It sounds like you can't really change his environment, but maybe even a different stable could make a positive difference. Do you think it's lack of turnout that's the issue? If not, what do you think it is?
 
Is he in work? If not maybe he'd be happier in a settled retirement type herd. Or do you have any alternative yards where there is a more stable herd in place? Could he live out all the time somewhere? - I find them more chilled and easy when they are out even with comings and goings.
 
What is his current daily routine? Is he in a rigid or flexible routine?

Is he turned out in a herd, with any other horw or individual turnout?

Is there much grass in the field? Does hay get put out if not?
 
It really seems to be winter - and mainly the lack of grass - as i say, he will hand graze for hours outside of his paddock. He is in work - exercised 3/4 times a week, moves beautifully, doesnt look or act his age. Id like him to live out with company and a shelter to come and go as he pleased but even the retirement yards around here seem to stable at night/in v bad weather in winter. Ive tried otc calmers - even valerian, i cant say they did anything. Hes 16.1hh and im not as strong as i was and i call it 'bargy' behaviour but really hes stressed - you can see it in his body language and mannerisms. Ive often assumed hes hangry but he will ignore hay and his treatball once hes upset. Ive considered athritis (teenage ex racer) but no other physical signs of it.
 
Its individual turnout, v small diy yard. Theres some grass but due to the weather this year it didnt grow as much as normal over summer. I can put hay out but he will leave it. Relatively set routine but as its diy no absolute rules/times for turnout/bringing in.
 
Would you be able to arrange with other liveries that they could bring him in if they are bringing theirs in and have arrived before you?

Have you spoken to the other liveries about the situation? If any of them are struggling too there might be an option to arrange something with turn out and bring in so that the horses always have company and don't think they've been "abandoned" alone.
 
The other liveries have v laid back, easy horses in comparison and think im completely neurotic! I wouldnt want anyone else to handle him tbf. In summer all the horses are out 24/7 and we both love it but thats not possible on clay land in winter around here. Its not that he hates being stabled - hes perfectly content when all the 'herd' are in with him.
 
Have you looked at what feed he is getting? Sometimes they react differently to feed in the winter so perhaps try something non heating for winter , like low cal chaff, Allen and page fast fibre or similar . My mare used to be difficult to handle in the winter and that’s what I fed her and it did make a bit of difference. Same as you she was easy in the summer when she was out 24/7 . It’s not easy !!
 
Hes a thoroughbred, ex racehorse. Never been scoped but ive always treated him as if he had them (ad lib hay, cereal free, high fibre feed etc). Barefoot, shiny coat, good weight - though i appreciate its still possible (and increasingly likely with him stressing now winters here). Hes been the same in winter on big livery yards too though.
 
I really feel for you. I have an ex NH horse who hates being out in any sort of 'weather' in winter and will run round screaming to come in. It's very vert scary. I know you said you had tried valarien, was it james hart you tried? That works really well. How about a stable mirror? Could he be turned out with one other and come in and go out together. Sorry, not read all of the replies, so all of this may have been suggested. I hope you get it resolved.
 
I'm sorry you're struggling. It's horrible when they aren't happy.

If he was mine my priority would be to move him to somewhere with company. I really don't think individual TO is in their best interest and it just causes so many behaviour issues and stressors. I'd be inclined to find a cheap field, bung him in it for 6 months on a regime of benign neglect and see how he does. It would massively take the pressure off of you as well.
 
I have one exactly the same. Absolutely fine in the summer. Out with the others 24/7. Albeit individual turnout. In the winter, I have to bring all in because we are on clay. Luckily , I rent my yard so all go out and in one after the other. I HAVE to turn him out first. And HAVE to get him in first. He tolerates his stable. But not keen. Will weave when I arrive and gets very anxious. He also hates wind with rain. Will fence walk. But won’t stable solo. I often use a bridle to handle or he can take off. In the summer ,, a child could bring him in with a head collar. He’s 18 next year and has never changed. I’ve always said that if he had to have box rest for an injury, then he would be shot. As neither of us could handle the stress. And yet he’s my best horse to hack out. In all weathers. You can leave him for months. In an ideal world, he would be out 24.7 with company and a field shelter to hide in, in bad weather.
 
I would find him somewhere were he is a barn/ turnout group, at least for the winter. I had a very anxious brood mare that I bought in and on her own she was a nightmare. If she got stressed she would mow you over, but managed in her group she was fine.
I would look at retirement livery because there you are more likely to get group management.

My brood mares used to be in a cattle shed over winter plenty of hay an water and if they are not over stocked, because you always get one that is bossy, they sort themselves out.
 
Definitely some things to consider/try. If i left where i am though, say to this (so far theoretical!) retirement yard i couldnt go back to where i am now, so that would mean early retirement for a fit and physically healthy horse and an end to my riding life which would make me sad but maybe thats better than stressed? And what if he still didnt settle (he has reacted badly to yard moves in the past), then id really be screwed! This is what i mean about being stuck between a rock and a hard place!
 
It took me a long time (far too long) to learn and understand just how influential management of the horse is - especially group turnout (or at least w one other) . It is SO fundamental. (Many livery yard owners (some BHS approved) choose to ignore this fact as it doesn’t make economic sense to them). So I agree w a previous poster - try him on another yard (and keep trying until you can see he has found his place). He will thank you for it
 
I wonder if it's worth talking to the others at this yard to see if something can be arranged to avoid the situation of your fellow being on his own, as that is what seems to be the problem. I don't think calmers are the answer. They just mask his natural inclination to want company. And ulcers don't seem to be the problem either, just good old-fashioned horse sense - he wants to feel safe with others.

ETA: When he feels better, you'll feel better. I agree that it would be a shame to retire a horse who is perfectly fine to ride etc etc:)
 
Ah, maybe ive not made it clear - he doesnt wait until hes alone to kick off - as soon as any of the horses come in he starts. I agree herd turnout is better but on livery yards horses come and go so often the herd is constantly changing - which is where injuries and accidents happen so i do understand why its not so common anymore. Thats why im leaning towards a retirement yard for him, even though its not what i want for me...
 
My own was far more stressy/had separation anxiety/wound up by other horse's movements on individual turnout - not chosen, his field mate left and I thought he'd be ok surrounded by everyone else for a while. He wasn't. I think it just left him in a state of higher anxiety generally and then any horse movement. He was mid 20s by then too, it wasn't the only reason he moved but it was the reason it happened quite quickly. If I hadn't been able to move him fairly quickly I think we'd have tried having him nearer the yard (most inc. him were currently on grazing down the road and I suspect that didn't help).
 
Mrs G said:
Definitely some things to consider/try. If i left where i am though, say to this (so far theoretical!) retirement yard i couldnt go back to where i am now, so that would mean early retirement for a fit and physically healthy horse and an end to my riding life which would make me sad but maybe thats better than stressed? And what if he still didnt settle (he has reacted badly to yard moves in the past), then id really be screwed! This is what i mean about being stuck between a rock and a hard place!
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I used to leave mine over the winter every year and pick them up in March, unless we were hunting with the PC, and then they were hunted from grass. If they are out and moving they retain a basic level of fitness. Before I had the children the off season was summer, and then I restarted the end of August like you do with traditional hunter fitening.
 
If I went the retirement yard route it’s doubtful I could pick him back up after 6 months - retirement yards don’t usually have riding facilities or horses coming and going (which is precisely why I’m considering one), and I’m not moving him every 6 months. I think it would be all or nothing, that’s why it’s so hard to know what to do.
 
Having read your post I would be going down the retirement livery route.

The fact that he stresses with horses coming and going, would mean that he would have a stable herd in the retirement livery and therefore not stressed out on a daily basis. It's also not nice for you to see or deal with and I can tell that it is quite upsetting for you (sending big hugs your way x). I understand that you are worried about him not settling in the retirement livery situation, is it possible to go and view a yard, explain the current situation and get their opinion/advice on what would happen if your lad didn't settle at the retirement livery? I put Baggs on retirement livery a while ago, and I was concerned about him not coping as he can be quite stressy like your lad - in the end he settled beautifully and enjoyed the time with the herd and being a horse. It completely changed him, and when I was able to and took him out of the retirement livery he was perfectly fine and content x I understand that you are unlikely to move your lad from the retirement livery if he settles there however x

Another option would be a track livery? That way he could live out with the herd and have a more stable routine, but if you wanted to go for a ride/ do things there would be the facilities to do so? Only downside of track livery is that they are few and far between and can be more costly than full livery x
 
Does anyone know of a retirement livery or track livery in East Yorkshire area? I guess if Im not riding or spending hours hand grazing I can work more hours to afford it!
 
Mrs G said:
If I went the retirement yard route it’s doubtful I could pick him back up after 6 months - retirement yards don’t usually have riding facilities or horses coming and going (which is precisely why I’m considering one), and I’m not moving him every 6 months. I think it would be all or nothing, that’s why it’s so hard to know what to do.
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There are definitely some that are happy for owners to come up and ride. But I guess most just won't have any facilities for it, so you'd need one with good hacking from the doorstep. I would find a couple that are sufficiently local to be viable, and have a chat with them. If you're mostly planning to ride outside the winter season they may be able to accommodate you - I would start by getting some phone numbers and having a chat.
 
Is there any way you can turn a group of them out together for a short time? In winter we are on stable/arena turnout because the fields are trashed. So we are four owners who rotate and put our four horses in the arena for an hour once a day (on top of what they do individually (before people get upset as I know that this is not ideal, it is just how it is for a few months and means they are able to be in the fields from March to the beginning of December). This means they play rough, gallop about a bit and at the end are happy to come back in. I find that if we miss this mine gets agitated and bargy. They don't even need long, just enough to be together and remember everyone's place ;).
 
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