stud fees and abortions

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Drum

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My mare has aborted her foal. Obviously I am really upset about this, but to make matters worse I contacted the stud and they won't give me a free or even discounted covering to use the same stallion. I feel really hard done by...I know it was 1st October terms but I though they might at least give me a discount. I still don't know why the mare aborted, so I don't even know if she can be put back in foal anyway. If they don't even offer me a discount I will take my business elsewhere...but what I wan't to know is if this is a normal attitude for them to take? I paid on time etc. and it was about £800 stud fee. Gutted.
 
Really sorry to hear that. Very sad.
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It is regretably common practice and without the NFFR or LFG terms in place then the owner can stand by the agreement of 1st October terms. Harsh but reality. The only loss to them is your future business.
 
Drum, so sorry to hear about your mare losing her foal - that's upsetting enough without also having no concessions from the stud. I'm assuming that she lost her foal recently, and that the stud are saying that therefore its way outside the October 1st terms? I think that they are taking a very hard line, but I guess it reminds us all of the importance of checking out the contract that we are entering into as mare owners, and the details of a NFFR offer, for instance ....

Something of the sort happened to me last year, and the stud said that it was too late to arrange a free return for the following year, as it was after Oct 1st. I was pretty p****d off at the time, as we have been good clients of theirs, but I did know the terms of the contract, and had really only myself to blame as I had decided not to have the usual early scans done on my mare, as it would have meant travelling her with a foal at foot. BAD decision! Like you, I lost a fair bit of money! I think that if your mare had a late abortion that you have a better "compassionate" case for a free/discounted return, as I'm sure some of the breeders on here would agree .... Hope all turns out well for you, after what must be a traumatic time.
 
Speaking as a stallion owner why should they give you a refund. The stallion and stud had done their job, the mare was in foal. I have given people discounts in the past where there has been problems but that has always been at my discretion.
 
A salutory lesson I'm afraid.

I have had a series of top British breeders come to me and now stay with me because I offer live foal guarantee.

Two big eventer breeders found out the benefit of my methods, when they each had super mares die in foal to Jaguar Mail last November. One hadn't signed an agreement with me, the other had signed the agreement and by day is a Barrister. Both just assumed they'd lost their money (a sad hangover from previous experiences). The first was able to substitute the mare even without an agreement in place, well I sell LFG end of story. The second substituted a mare, but I told him that I could never use him as a Barrister if he didn't read contracts that he had signed
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Many of you are one or two mare owners, and you need the back up of an LFG agreement, or you'll simply lose your money. But to be honest even those with more mares should be looking at this agreement as well.

£800 down the toilet with nothing to show? That's just wrong.
 
Yes she lost her foal recently so well past the 1st October terms, and I was well aware of the terms - I just thought they might have some sympathy! I realise the stallion owner obviously has to make their money.

She had 16 and 30 day scans. If she hadn't been in foal at 1st October I would only have had to pay about £200.

The stud had always been good to deal with and friendly. But as a very small-scale breeder I feel quite hard done by especially at such a sad time. I've been blaming myself and wondering whether I could have done anything differently for my mare to have avoided the situation. It was a lot of money, and to pay it ALL over again seems a bit unfair. But I suppose thats life!
 
The stallion and stud had done their job, the mare was in foal. That very much depends on what you consider your "job" to be. If it's just to get a mare pregnant and take the money (which is what you have just described) then fair enough, providing you make very sure that the mare owner is FULLY aware of this.

I don't consider that to be enough. As an agent, stallion owner and breeder, I see all angles, but at the end of the day the mare owner wants a foal. You carry on with your method, I'll carry on with LFG and very high customer service, ensuring that the mare owner gets their foal.

It was a lot of money, and to pay it ALL over again seems a bit unfair. Correct, with me you don't have to.

That's life I suppose Wrong, that's one type of life. The other is fair, open and honest and you get a foal.
 
Ken, that is very interesting that you offer a LFG, you dont see many of those about nowadays and i will certainly keep that in mind for the future.

Excuse my ignorance, but from what i can gather, you are an agent, so does the LFG cover every stallion on your books? Sorry, i am feeling rather thick today lol
 
Ken you and I are working at opposite ends of the financial scale in terms of stallion fees and although I only have a native pony stallion I still work hard to make sure that the mare owner gets the best service I can deliver. I make sure that the mare owner knows exatly what the arrangements are. I have been totally put off a "live foal guarentee" by the stupidty and dishonesty of some people. The moral is to make sure that as a mare owner you know exactly what the terms are and what they mean and as a stallion owner you are clear and upfront before the mare arrives.
 
so does the LFG cover every stallion on your books? No, the stallions from the French National stud are by dose, but the semen is of such superb quality, that I can (with my hand on my heart) sell it with the confidence that two straws from an 8 starw dose should do the job. I haven't yet sold a dose that hasn't resulted in a pregnancy (famous last words). Other than that, all other stallions on my books are LFG.
 
Yes very unfair and far too great a loss to the mare owner, single mare owner or not. We have one client this year who's foal aborted and she took the mare to another stallion as hadn't realised we offered a NFFR and LFG and have allowed the covering to be transferred to another mare or come back in 2009.

Another mare owner lost her foal in year one, transferred it to the following year, the mare then died... no luck at all but we are still more than happy to send semen this year third year on the trot and for a different mare. At this time of year when the stallions are busy and collecting nearly every day its so very little to post off semen.
 
Luckily none of my visiting mares have been in this situation. I have 2 native stallions and offer NFFR rather than 1 oct terms. I see my job as a stud owner to provide a service to visiting clients and that includes a live foal. the fees are much less but that doesn't mean you have to compromiseon on service.
 
Sorry to but in but may I ask a question?
I had a NFFR on a stud fee, the mare didn't take first year so was supposed to return this year. Unfortunately I had to have her put down due to injury, I have contacted the stud via email re the stud fee or free return and have heard nothing.
Is this normal practise?
I understand the stud is likely to be busy but I know they check the emails.
Even if they tell me tough and thats that it would be nice to know where I stand.
Any ideas?
 
I'm always rather surprised that studs take stud fees for mares not in foal! If mares go home from my stud not in foal, no stud fee is charged and I can't see any justification for charging one!! NFFR SHOULD mean that if the pregnancy is lost - and sometimes this is limited by 30th October terms, i.e. the pregnancy must be lost by 30th October in the year of conception, then the Free Return kicks in. If the mare has since been lost, it would be reasonable to allow a substitute mare although some studs don't.

But all studs vary in their terms. I know one stallion owner who doesn't even charge a stud fee until a live foal is born - but she is an exception and not many could afford to be so generous. I would telephone them - e-mails DO get 'lost' amongst the spam.
 
I have emailed again, using the personal email hopeing for a reply.
I find it a bit off putting though, as the website advertising the stallions seems to have dissappered!
I'm really supprised that they havn't contacted me at any time, as if they havn't recieved the email they shoud be expecting to send the semen anytime soon??
It was a young stallion, so didn't have a full book.
????
 
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