Stud Fees for First Season Sires

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Talking Sportshorses here mainly, but can apply to any breed. How do you stallion owners arrive at the fees? And as mare owners, what do you consider to be too high to even contemplate, for a first season sire - by this I mean 3 or 4 year old stallions. Thanks
 
all of the factors mentioned by Memo, however people are often prepared to pay a premium stud fee for garanteed colour despite being non approved or proven.

Young continental stallions fees are often as little as 400 - 600 euros. The same in the UK is often 500 sterling.

If fees are often too low it often attracts poorer quality mares, as expressed by a good friend in Holland who's first crop of foals varied from poor - above average. As the premium increased the quality of mares increased as did the quality of the foal crop, and was advised to wait for the foillowing years foals as the mares were generally much better.

Some feel that by offering a low stud fee they will attract more mares and as its often a race against time to get the foals on the ground.

Some would rather offer a higher stud fee and wait to see what the stallion produces prior to increasing the stud fee.

We have started our young stallions at 350 sterling in their first year at stud and increased accordingly.

As always its horses for courses.
 
Yes I agree with you both and it's a difficult question to answer without any examples for me to give. Opie, I certainly agree on the colour thing, I have done that myself this year! Whilst drooling the internet looking at potential matches for next year, I have come across a couple of young stallions, that although in their limited career have undoubtedly done very well and are beautifully bred and look the part, are IMHO hugely over priced. I thought the same last year and the year before - different stallions and studs however! It just makes me wonder at the scope for increasing their stud fees should they warrant it? There are proven sires on the continent that I could use for less...... The price range I am talking about is £600 to £1000!
 
Yes its a hard call. Generaly the cost of producing a stallion in the UK is at a levied rate compared with the continent. Training fees, entry fees, veterinary fees, feed, vaccinations, vettings, collections, freezing everything is much more expensive. A young stallion on the continent will cover many more mares in any given season even his first season than a British based stallion regardless of the stud fee being charged. Then there is the prize money allocated to performing stallions in competition. Friends went to a show in Italy were placed in a few classes and brought home 22000 euros with just three horses.
Additionaly the big studs with 10 - 20 + stallions have been/are often financially backed by multi million businesses, where running a stud at a loss where funds can be allocated as "sponsorship" for marketing and branding the business name has huge tax advantages.
Back home however you might find that paying that little bit extra gives you access to a much more personalised service. Stud owners who have the time to answer any queries a mare owner may have, no matter how frequently they call, the stallion owner that keeps in touch with progress, that is delighted to hear the news of the new born foal and will do what they can to rehome him/her when the time comes, rather than being yet another statistic.
It's a difficult market but regardless of the fees being charged I doubt there are any stallion owners who are making any profit standing a stallion at stud. Stallion owners in the UK predominantly used their stalions for serving their own mares and what they do take in as outside fees barely covers the stallions costs per year. They very often have to wait a very long time to "perhaps" reach success before bookings become more numerous, setting aside the rare or garanteed colour aspect of breeding perhaps. So many factors to take into consideration I guess but the UK breeding industry behind the scenes is perhaps not how many perceive it. Breeders are often driven by passion and not by financial gain but at the end of the day if they are to maintain the high standards of care of their youngsters/horses in general the funds have to come from somewhere.
 
I think owners of the leading eventing sires might be the only ones making any profit as for some reason the numbers those sires cover are far higher than their dressage or SJ counterparts. Maybe there isn't the same level of competition for the eventing sires from Mainland Europe?
I know the likes of Primitve Rising used to cover very large books and Mill Law had an awful lot of mares in British standards this year
 
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Talking Sportshorses here mainly, but can apply to any breed. How do you stallion owners arrive at the fees? And as mare owners, what do you consider to be too high to even contemplate, for a first season sire - by this I mean 3 or 4 year old stallions. Thanks

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How do I arrive at my fees.....well a lot depends. With Geneve I think we started off at £300 in his first season and this went up through the years as he went into sport and his youngstock were doing well.

With our new young stallion last year my fee was £500, mainly because I thought he was quite special....and I was not wrong in my thinking....as this year he produced some of the best foals in Scotland....
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I know of breeders in the Continent who purposefully put higher fees on the stallions as they dont want heaps of mares (were other commercial ventures do, to recoup some of the costs against these stallions) otherwise it pulls the price of foals down (just like the Tattersalls Foal Sale reported in the H&H this week!)

If it is a stallion I believe in then I would pay up to 1,200 euros for a first season sire, but I would only select the sire if I felt it was a good match on the mare, not because its the "new in thing"!
 
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