Studbook registration - what do buyers think?

[05jackd]

A general question to the collective!

There has been a lot of discussion on Breeder forums about UK studbooks post Brexit but I wanted to get an opinion from a wider population.

If you were to buy a foal for riding would you be bothered what studbook is was registered with?

For example a dressage foal - would you pay more for one registered with British Hanoverian - where passports cost £100+ but are DNA tested vs British Warmblood for £35 or AES @ £42?

Or for a showjumper:

SHB(GB) @ £48 VS £42 to AES or £60 (+£55 for DNA) to Breeders Elite.

Do buyers appreciate the extra cost or is it just waisted money?

I am currently looking at the costs for passporting 3 fillies and one colt but I am struggling to justify paying for the more expensive studbooks when people want well bred foals for peanuts!

 

[Quadro]

With AES you can always do DNA afterwards if people want. THey have their own lab and are very quick.
I use AES without DNA and have no issues and has never been mentioned by buyers

 

[rabatsa]

Unless the buyers are intending to breed in the future then the stud book should not matter as long as the breeding can be proved.

 

[LEC]

The answer is most people don’t care. It really doesn’t matter to most people if it came with a donkey passport or was KWPN. It matters to me, but I am not most people.
Personally, I loathe AES with a passion as it’s a shit show of grading any old crap and no DNA testing so if your pride and joy came back as supposed to be by a 1.60m sjer and was actually part gypsy cob then tough luck isn’t it! SHGB isn’t much better with its low standards of stallion grading but they do at least DNA test, so you know it’s exactly what the breeding should be.

 

[First Frost]

I wouldn't care if i was buying a gelding as then breeding really doesn't matter. However with a mare I would want the DNA test ect as it could influence the price of progeny.

 

[ihatework]

Long winded answer.
Partly depends what you are breeding but from a sporthorse perspective:

Grass rooted Eventing/all rounder/RC it ‘generally’ does not matter, especially if a gelding. Go with the cheapest/easiest. That is probably going to be AES.

Eventing - personally I’d lean towards SHB GB because of all the stud books they do tend to offer something to Eventing in terms of prize sponsorship/exposure so that is why I support them.

If showing might end up being a future job for the horse then unless you have a breed specific studbook then 100% SHBGB.

SJ oriented I’d go AES.

Dressage specific if you can, BHHS. In fact BHHS are probably the best studbook in UK but really only seem dressage interested. I did approach them about performance testing & grading a very good young event mare I have but it was like pulling teeth and in the end I just stuck with SHB GB.

AES annoy the crap out of me. They have the potential to be stand out studbook for UK sport breeding but they are too slack on licensing / grading and as far as I’m concerned it’s mind boggling that mandated DNA is not a prerequisite for breeding stock or full papers.

 

[BailingTwine]

I breed both both dressage warmbloods and SJs. I always use the BHHS unless the sire isn't licensed then I would go British Warmblood (this has only happened once when the parentage test showed that the foal wasn't my the stallion I had paid for). My main reason is that I have spent a lot of money on good bloodlines and why on earth would I register with the AES and just get white papers. The BHHS DNA test which gives my buyers peace of mind and they always sell for more money. Also, if I want to retain any of the fillies then I know they have excellent breeding papers and, even if I sell them on, the new owner can breed from them in the future knowing that they are fully parentage tested. I did have one instance a few years ago where the semen supplier had sent the wrong semen. I wouldn't have known this unless the BHHS had run the parentage test. They also have access to all the DNA profiles of most warmbloods, unlike that of the AES.

I personally would never register a well bred expensive foal AES and even more so a filly. Why skimp on a few quid for a passport when you can a nice pink passport, peace of mind that the foal is by the sire you have advertised it as, and most of all ... options to grade, performance test. - afterall how much did you pay on the semen? Seems bizarre to cut corners at the last hurdle.

 

[NYTaxi]

I would register BHHS, especially if they are fillies. You've spent a lot of time and money deciding on a stallion, getting the mare in foal and then looking after the foal - why would you then buy an AES or Breeders Elite passport?
If you have a colt and it is going to be gelded - I then ask the BHHS for white papers - you'll find this is cheaper than AES, BWBS, Breeders Elite etc and that includes the DNA testing. The BHHS is also very proactive in sharing posts and stories about their registered horses and have a director on the WBFSH board. I have a number of horses that I have bred who are out competing and the BHHS always share the posts and most importantly, recognise me as the breeder - even when BD and BSJA fail to do so. I even enjoy going to their foal shows, it's just such a lovely day and you can also see what other breeders have produced whcih gives you an idea for your next stallion choice.

As the previous comment states why skimp on a few extra pounds when you've spent thousands getting a horse in foal - then you are happy to sell it without the DNA parentage checked. (I also wouldn't buy a broadmare without full papers and who hadn't had their parentage verified, it is irresponsible.)

 

[05jackd]

I think these answers shows the divide I feel. The first few answers I am guessing are from 'buyers' and they do not necessarily mind but the others from Breeders show that they really do want the full belt and braces passports.

I guess I just find it difficult to justify spending £1000 on 4 passports when there seems to be little interest from buyers.

 

[Ratface]

For the last forty plus years, mine have been purebred Crabbet Arabian horses. I'm a "what's it's breeding?" nerd, so if I'm ever going to be in the unlikely position to have another after Old Horse pops his clogs, the breeding will be what I look at, before the price.

 

[ihatework]

I think these answers shows the divide I feel. The first few answers I am guessing are from 'buyers' and they do not necessarily mind but the others from Breeders show that they really do want the full belt and braces passports.

I guess I just find it difficult to justify spending £1000 on 4 passports when there seems to be little interest from buyers.

It honestly depends what you are selling and who is likely to be buying!

Fillies it is worth investing IMO. Dressage geldings too (dressage buyers can be a bit snobby about it).Geldings for other disciplines probably less so.

 

[blitznbobs]

Question - i have an aes mare by johnson (kwpn ) out of a gribaldi mare (kwpn) she is in foal to Glamourdale (yay) - can i register the foal as bhhs?

 

[ihatework]

Question - i have an aes mare by johnson (kwpn ) out of a gribaldi mare (kwpn) she is in foal to Glamourdale (yay) - can i register the foal as bhhs?

You will need to look on their website/speak to them.

For full foal papers I’d imagine you would need to grade and overstamp the mare to BHHS which would be worth doing on pure dressage bloodlines

 

[05jackd]

Question - i have an aes mare by johnson (kwpn ) out of a gribaldi mare (kwpn) she is in foal to Glamourdale (yay) - can i register the foal as bhhs?

I think as long as she has 4 generations of recorded breeding then the foal could be registered but you would have to DNA test and grade the mare?

But best to speak to them and find out.

 

[Bobthecob15]

It honestly depends what you are selling and who is likely to be buying!

Fillies it is worth investing IMO. Dressage geldings too (dressage buyers can be a bit snobby about it).Geldings for other disciplines probably less so.

100% agree on this. Had a filly a few years ago, made sure I got one that was with a decent studbook for potential breeding later on...helps with the value I think too.