Styrofoam Pads

[ILuvCowparsely]

I am sure someone here has experience with these.!

My mare has worn them a few weeks and they have stopped the sole dropping any more so far with the laminitis.


Trouble is she is VERY sore lame.

Laminitic trust said they dont use them and she prob got a bruised sole from the pressure of her standing on them ( bit like if you have a horse tread on your feet then you try put tight boots on ) the pressure is large and hurts bad.


Trouble is how do i approach my vet who i trust?

some say cut the toe of one styrofoam pad and then put a new one on top thus there is a slight less pressure from where the toe is cut off to where the toe of the new styrofoam pad. I f you can understand that.

 

[amandap]

I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean about the pads. I just change the whole pad.

If she is still very sore I think it may well mean something in her diet isn't right yet. I again urge you to join the Yahoo group to ask there, there is a wealth of collective knowledge and experience there from owners, professionals and experts dealing with these problems over the years the group has been going.

I don't feel able to say about the trim or mechanics but I do believe that the type of trim can have a huge pain relieving effect on some horses along with hoof support and diet and drugs like pergolide where indicated.

As for your Vet, I'd be open with him and express your concerns about her continuing pain.

I so feel for you and your horse.

Here's the link to the group http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean about the pads. I just change the whole pad.

If she is still very sore I think it may well mean something in her diet isn't right yet. I again urge you to join the Yahoo group to ask there, there is a wealth of collective knowledge and experience there from owners, professionals and experts dealing with these problems over the years the group has been going.

I don't feel able to say about the trim or mechanics but I do believe that the type of trim can have a huge pain relieving effect on some horses along with hoof support and diet and drugs like pergolide where indicated.

As for your Vet, I'd be open with him and express your concerns about her continuing pain.

I so feel for you and your horse.

Here's the link to the group http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/

Her diet is speedy beet 200 grms soaked ( as recomende by lami trust )

1/2 happpy hoof and 1/2 fibergy 1 scoop in all

if you read here says dont put the pad over the sore bit


I was referring to trimming the pad not the foot
http://www.hopeforsoundness.com/cms/styrofoam-support-pad-instructions.html

 

[amandap]

I've just realized when my pony has had acute laminitis I don't put anything on her hooves, just a deep shavings bed. I use the pads when she is able to come off the bed for short periods and for longer periods and walks as she progresses. I don't know the 'correct' way, it's the way I manage her in our circumstances.
I do leave them on as alternatives to boots when she is out in the yard and still a little tender. I have never had any problems with the pads I linked.

I believe many people have found that happy hoof etc. isn't helpful although recommended by the Laminitis Trust.
I'd put her onto the emergency diet recommended here immediately and stop everything else in her diet and see how she goes for a week at least.
http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/ddt-overview/diet

ps. Soaking and rinsing all hay is crucial unless you have had it tested and know it is low in simple carbs. Hay is main part of diet.

 

[Nari]

They were used on my ID last year when he had laminitis & they made him much more comfortable.

His were changed, if I remember properly, 3 times a week by my farrier not vet. They were initially fitted following x-rays & the farrier trimmed & shaped the styrofoams according to what he saw on those rather than as they came out of the box. My lad was also kept in a stable with a very deep shavings bed, only coming out for the farrier (I skipped out around him & just kept adding more shavings to keep the bed fresh) & had nothing like the amount of feed you're giving in - just weighed hay, Top Spec AntiLam & a couple of handfuls of bran.

I hope you can get your mare sorted.

 

[amandap]

Those styrofoam pads must be hard then. The pads I use couldn't be shaped, well, I mean it wouldbe pointless as they mould to the hoof and flatten.
It sounds like the styrofoam pads are used to support the 'correct' angle of the coffin bone.
The ones I use are for over all support and comfort.
http://www.equinepodiatrysupplies.co.uk/Pads/EPS-7lb-Pads

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I bought her a hay soaker and her hay is soaked for many hours

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-Hay...t=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item2c5f6500c2

she also has formula4feet and laminator

i think her soles are bruised from the pads and keep putting them over the toe is like if we had a bruised foot and wore tight shoes

the stryrofoam pads squash down but then are hard to keep sole from dropping any more .

If you look on this web site there is a picture of the pads before and after they been on 4 days

http://equinecare-and-control.weebly.com/

 

[amandap]

That hay soaker looks much posher than my wheelie bin. Rinsing is also important especially for a horse that is not stabilized. I'm sure you don't but I've read of people reusing the soaking water rather than using clean water each time. Just covering bases here not trying to pick at you.

I'm still not sure what damage the pads can be doing if they squash and mould, they will be supporting the whole sole and frog area. I may of course be wrong. Does she have thrush? Pads or contact with the ground can be very painful if thrush is eating away at the frog and surrounding tissues.
I can't find any pics on that link.

I'm sorry to sound like the proverbial stuck record here but I still believe you should try the emergency diet and stop everything else. The main dietary objective is to get sugars as low as possible so imo any made up commercial feed is something to avoid until a horse improves or aif a horse isn't improving or 'stuck'. Some horses can be sensitive to alfalfa, preservatives etc. so unless you strip things right back it's impossible to know if anything else apart from sugars may be a factor. Less is very often more.

I've had batches of hay I've had to soak twice as well as rinsing until I could get a different supply. I always watch my pony like a hawk when I get new batches of hay to see how she is responding.

ps. I can see and feel you are doing and wanting the very best for your horse. It's so hard to know what's right or best when experts like Laminitis Trust and other experts don't agree.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

damn i hate it when the site freezes rubbed off my reply No she has no thrush her feet are nice clean and dry. Vet put special spray on before re putting on new pad.

What they are saying is when the sole is sore ( when hoof testers applied ) the pad could be bruising a bit like you put shoes on after your foot has been trodden on by a horse.

I had planters faciilitis its bloody painful and every time you walk on your heel it hurts even more so when you wear shoes

on the link look under L for laminitis .

 

[amandap]

damn i hate it when the site freezes rubbed off my reply No she has no thrush her feet are nice clean and dry. Vet put special spray on before re putting on new pad.

What they are saying is when the sole is sore ( when hoof testers applied ) the pad could be bruising a bit like you put shoes on after your foot has been trodden on by a horse.

I had planters faciilitis its bloody painful and every time you walk on your heel it hurts even more so when you wear shoes

on the link look under L for laminitis .

I believe in laminitis the whole sole corium (live tissue layer producing and feeding the sole) is inflamed as well as the wall lamina so the whole sole will be sore in my view. The sole often becomes or is thin and pressure of any hard lumps or bumps will be especially sore. I believe the pads are supposed to produce a cushioning effect to protect and pad the thinned sole from any further damage. Any weight on hooves (or feet) that have inflamed soles will be sore as you describe. The point I'm trying to get across is that there will not be relief until the inflammation subsides in the first instance. That is imo achieved by getting the diet right and also protecting the thin sole and other hoof structures from further damage from pressure points which can cause abscesses. In acute laminitis hoof testers will pretty much show a response wherever they are applied, not just the areas of sole they might be applied to. Does that make any sense?

Just to expand on my current belief, sorry. lol
The way of using a shoe to raise the sole off the ground to relieve that pressure just makes the weight of the horse hang on weakened lamina in the hoof wall. The sole, coffin bone and hoof must be supported from underneath somehow otherwise the weight of the horse will tear the weakened hoof wall lamina more. I believe a deep shavings bed or other conformable bed and or pads achieves this.

Have you read posts and info on the process believed to be causing the inflammation in the hoof and the pain? Peeps like CPTrayes, brucea and LucyPriory have posted extensively and eloquently on this over the months and years.

I'll have a look under L.

Sorry to go rambling off your question, I hope someone else apart from Nari has direct experience of these pads. I'm not the greatest at explaining clearly.

Mta. Just had a look at the pad you mentioned. It looks to me a good impression of the whole base of the hoof so I think supportive. I can't see any bumps or lumps that would have caused specific pressure points. If there were any areas getting more pressure from a part of the hoof sole they would show up on the impression I would have thought? I am no expert though.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I think your doing very well

I have compared fiberygy- happy hoof - dengi hi fi and hifi lite and safe and sound all very similar .


I was thinking of just giving her just speedy beet .??

I want to stick with the formula 4feet and laminitor supplements

no i havent read the posts i cannot get access to them

 

[Nari]

Those styrofoam pads must be hard then. The pads I use couldn't be shaped, well, I mean it wouldbe pointless as they mould to the hoof and flatten.
It sounds like the styrofoam pads are used to support the 'correct' angle of the coffin bone.
The ones I use are for over all support and comfort.
http://www.equinepodiatrysupplies.co.uk/Pads/EPS-7lb-Pads

These moulded & flattened too, when they were changed they'd be completely squashed & you could see the exact shape of sole, frog etc.

ETA Leviathan the styrofoams we used were the same as those in your pictures.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

These moulded & flattened too, when they were changed they'd be completely squashed & you could see the exact shape of sole, frog etc.

ETA Leviathan the styrofoams we used were the same as those in your pictures.

but did they cut the top from the front of the pad to take some of the pressure from the toe?

 

[amandap]

I think your doing very well

I have compared fiberygy- happy hoof - dengi hi fi and hifi lite and safe and sound all very similar .


I was thinking of just giving her just speedy beet .??

I want to stick with the formula 4feet and laminitor supplements

no i havent read the posts i cannot get access to them

lol, thanks. he he.
I think you should ditch the happy hoof etc. and give speedy beet a try, I would add salt, magnesium oxide and vitamin e. Follow the instructions on the emergency diet link.
Do have a think about stopping the formula 4 etc. as well.

Here's a link to LucyPriory's fantastic blog. It's specifically about 'wind' but applies to laminitis in all it's guises. Wind is just one possible symptom.
http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/managing-your-microbes-or-how-to.html

Also have a look at the articles here. The feeding the hoof one might be a good starter but there's so much info it's a bit over whelming and hard to see the relevance at first. Just remember a horse is a whole system and everything is linked and can affect other parts of the body.
http://www.hoofrehab.com/hoof articles by Pete Ramey.htm

 

[Nari]

He cut the pad so it was thinner at the toe.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

vet came up yes

she going to ask the other vet if he cut toe as she thought her had and it made her worse.



She said the feed she is on is not making her worse, so i am going to give her a handfull of fibergy and happy hoof with speedy beet to disguise the taste of bute etc

formula 4 feet i will keep her one as
a i already paid for it

b i am going to see if it helps by the end of the bag.

She checked her toe area of sole and its very dry and soft/ crumbling so we got to paint hoof hardener every time she has pad changed
and thinks thats y she so sore
i have always got a fallback if foremula4feet doesnt work,
equimins hoofmender.

I know this works as i used it on her before and my other mare whos feet improved 99% on it.

 

[amandap]

She said the feed she is on is not making her worse, so i am going to give her a handfull of fibergy and happy hoof with speedy beet to disguise the taste of bute etc


I know this works as i used it on her before and my other mare whos feet improved 99% on it.

I can't argue with a Vet can I. My fingers are well and truly crossed it is a mechanical issue from the pads.
All horses are different so I wouldn't assume something that worked for one will work for another.

Best of luck with her.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

thankyou very much Amanda

 

[Pat10]

Someone on our yard had a bad laminitic on which the pads were used. Unfortunately they just didn't stay in place, and the whole situation was badly managed. The horse didn't survive.

 

[Oberon]

I'd just feed the Speedibeet - and I'd rinse that until the water runs clear.

I know your vet said it's fine (lesson 1. never follow a vet over a cliff) but HappyHoof has mollasses in it - despite it being Laminitis Trust approved. I wouldn't let your horse even look at the bag right now.

I fed it for years and found improvements in the quality of my horse's feet when I sacked it.

The Fibergy also contains mollasses.

Can't help with pads, but I know you've been going through this all for a while and thought I'd post a couple of articles if they may be of any help to you now?

http://www.aanhcp.net/Bulletin 113 Mythos of P3 Rotation.pdf

http://www.aanhcp.net/Laminitis Rep... Reduce Laminits by C Pollitt and K Watts.pdf

http://www.laminitisresearch.org/do...ing_Carbohydrate_induced_Equine_Laminitis.pdf

http://www.hoofrehab.com/hoofcast.htm

http://www.hoofrehab.com/jessica.htm

http://www.hoofrehab.com/LaminitisUpdate.htm

 

[amandap]

I know your vet said it's fine (lesson 1. never follow a vet over a cliff)

My vet told me wet grass causes diarrhoea. I've taken my lot off the grass but not because they had diarrhoea.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I did cut her happy hoof and fibergy down to a quarter scoop only. My vet said she been on both for a while and they haven't made it worse..

That said she came up yesterday pulse had gone down since Friday. her pain is due to a pressure point on the sole where sole dried out and crumble leaving a oblong hole


we are now changing her pads every 2 days and painting hoof hardener on it . Once its hard they drill a wee hole to let the gas out.

 

[amandap]

we are now changing her pads every 2 days and painting hoof hardener on it . Once its hard they drill a wee hole to let the gas out.

I've heard of this before. What gas are they hoping to 'let out' and why? I asked about this on the UKNHCP forum a while back. http://uknhcp.myfastforum.org/about3128.html&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=gas+pockets&start=0
I think they should call them air pockets. Gas pockets seems to imply pressure is involved or some 'gas' being produced which I don't believe it is.

Some horses are very sensitive to any mollasses and I've learned by experience that even small amounts of sugar can make a huge difference. What is the retangular hole? I don't think painting anything on is a good idea my self if there are holes and why the need to drill if there is already a hole?
Please join the Insulin resistance and Cushings yahoo group.

 

[amandap]

Sorry, meant to comment on this point.

I did cut her happy hoof and fibergy down to a quarter scoop only. My vet said she been on both for a while and they haven't made it worse..

The thing is it hasn't made it better either. I'd be looking to change stuff in this situation. Stopping all the feeds and supplements isn't going to do any harm at this point. I've become very suspicious of many manufactured compound feeds and supplements. There is all sorts in them and if the horse has a mineral imbalance they will not help redress that imbalance. Many contain hidden mollasses and preservatives etc. Laminitis is a reaction to a toxic system so the least added is less for the horses body to cope with. A feed 'detox' is more helpful ime. I stress I don't mean give detox stuff just strip the diet back to real basics.
I'd try the emergency diet I linked for you on Dr Kellon's pages.

I'm so sorry your horse is suffering so badly and you are in such a distressing situation. ((hug))

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Its not a hole as such is just where the sole has crumbled due to getting softer. Its no difference than a farrier digging out an area its like making a hole in the sand. The area needs to harden up once its harder she wont be in so much pain bit like a blister once its burst .


I am keeping her on the supplements as

A. i need to encourage new horn to be healthier than whats there.

b. the lamininator makes the vessels dilate thus helping blood flow to the hoof, which she needs

and the bute.

I spoke to my vet about the emergency diet, she said to stick with what i am doing just a handfull of fibergy and happyhoof with speedy beet.


my mare has generally good feet, this area is just a pressure point it doesnt go into the lamina. It looks like the hole a small abcess makes and it will grow out.

The gas pocket is an area where air collects and cant escape once the sole is hard and no pain they will make a small incision to let the air escape.

Then once more comfortable she will have her heart bar shoes on.

My vets are working with my farrier At the moment she is improving within the last few days . So I am reluctant to change anything now unless we have too.

 

[amandap]

I'm glad to hear she is now improving.
The air in the hoof isn't under pressure so it doesn't need to escape. The hoof wont go down (deflate), it will stay with the pocket until it grows out. I just don't understand the reasoning of your Vet here I'm afraid. Drilling into the hoof for any reason does increase the risk of further infection as it opens the sealed hoof capsule.

I do wish her well. Sorry if it feels like I'm badgering you.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

what happened to the link it doesnt work now http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/ddt-overview/diet

 

[amandap]

The domain has expired. Here's the link to the Yahoo group http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/
Hope it gets sorted.

There's a facebook group too http://www.facebook.com/pages/ECIR-Group-Equine-Cushings-and-Insulin-Resistance/159957040718910

...and seeing as I'm in link mode this morning Dr Kellon runs distance courses on nutrition if anyone is interested. http://www.drkellon.com/

 

[amandap]

Just to let you know the link is working again. http://www.ecirhorse.com/