Subchondral Cyst in pedal bone

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Germolene

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Hi,

Has anybody had any dealings with this ?? I've just had some X-rays of my mares hooves as she's been slightly lame for about 4 weeks and we found this problem in her right pedal bone. Vet doesn't seem very worried and has talked about surgery but I just want to hear from somebody that has experienced this to see what their outcome was? My mare has just turned 6 so still a baby and we have trained so hard over the last 12 months and was doing sooooo well with our first year showing. I don't know how to feel about this news :-(
 
Germolene said:
Hi,

Has anybody had any dealings with this ?? I've just had some X-rays of my mares hooves as she's been slightly lame for about 4 weeks and we found this problem in her right pedal bone. Vet doesn't seem very worried and has talked about surgery but I just want to hear from somebody that has experienced this to see what their outcome was? My mare has just turned 6 so still a baby and we have trained so hard over the last 12 months and was doing sooooo well with our first year showing. I don't know how to feel about this news :-(
Click to expand...

A former liveries mare had this operation as I believe it had a successful outcome.
 
applecart14 said:
A former liveries mare had this operation as I believe it had a successful outcome.
Click to expand...

My 4yo horse had this and was sadly PTS 3 months after diagnosis.
It all depends on its exact location, is it at the joint surface where is may be accessible via keyhole? or is it centrally located inside the pedal bone where I would have thought it would be inoperable unless vet is thinking about going in from the bottom?

It also depends where the nerve blocks are effective to. My mare was lame until just below her knee was blocked, an upper neurectomy would have left her field sound but the damage to the joint surface would have continued and led to further problems.
We tried Tildren infusion, box rest and heart bars to no avail. She was sound with rest and on soft surfaces and lame as soon as she cantered around the school.
On X ray my mares looked like a black hole the size of a pea right in the centre of the coffin joint, with white bone crumbs falling into the cartilage and joint space.
Mine was also good at hiding how bad it was as she was actually bilaterally lame from resting on the other leg so much. The affected right hoof was also bigger than the left (farrier noticed right away).

Hope yours has a better outcome.
 
Hi,

Oh dear, sorry for your loss :(

It's subchondral, which means just below the cartiledge and it's kind of central. My mares is in her pedal bone and there's no evidence of anything escaping into the joint space. There's no sign of any arthritis which can also occur because of these cysts. She's been admitted for an MRI so they can see if they can get to it in the pedal bone, but I have since researched and found that operations have been performed by drilling through the hoof wall to get to it. It all sounds very scary!!!

Can I ask when you first discovered your mare was lame? I've been training my girl for 12 months and it's only in the last 4 weeks she's been lame, but we also have a slight imbalance in her shoeing too which won't be helping, so hopefully once we've sorted that out she'll be more comfortable. And yes the vet has spoken about using Tildren too....

I guess it's just a waiting game now and I'll know a lot more after her MRI scan in a couple of weeks time. The thought of having to make a decision to pts horrifies me, in fact it hadn't even entered my mind until I read your reply :( she's not that lame (just slightly on the right rein) and if it turns out she'll never be sound enough to progress in the showing world, which is what I had planned, then I guess I'll have to have a think
 
I bought a lightly backed 4 year old ID sweet and easy mare, and schooled her for about 2 months. She didn't improve in her way of going- on the forehand, leaning, tripping a bit and motorbiking around the school. Out hacking she was forward and seemed fine so I thought it was just baby issues in the school. Then I took her out in the trailer for the first time and she nearly tipped it over by throwing herself about. I thought she just needed to get used to it and persisted in trying her with no partition, left side, right side, another horses, alone etc but she was still terrible. Then I got her reshod (had been in the same shoes since purchased) and she nearly killed the farrier, rearing , striking out, every time he tried to nail into the feet. Never appeared lame in all this time, I even went to 2 shows and got well placed with her.

I explained all the problems to the vet giving her jags and he trotted her up several times. She only nodded very slightly about twice during the whole trot ups. Vet sure something not right. Nerveblocked her and she was lame 4/10 on right leg and 2/10 on left leg.
Problem obvious on xray immediately.

Initially my vet was positive the Tildren and rest would work with the heart bars and I wasn't unduly worried... She seemed fine on soft ground and appeared sound initially, but lame again 2/10 on hard ground after the 3 months box rest. When I did more reading I felt the outlook was much worse than he made out. Return to work is very dependant on the position of the cyst and surgery can be very effective in many cases.
Hers was also subcondrial and centrally located and the consultant was adamant it wasn't operable due to its location.
I made the decision to PTS as Ava was miserable on box rest, lame in the field barefoot, needed sedated to be shod and travelled and she couldn't keep a shoe on for more than 2 days without pulling it off. I considered nuerectomy purely to improve her quality of life but this too had too many complications.
I spoke to a human consultant and he agreed cysts can be tricky.

Sorry to put you on a downer.

You know your own horse best and if she has been sound then perhaps the outlook is better.
You might also be prepared to work at her longer to get her right than I did.
I wasn't prepared to keep a field ornament from a 4yo, or breed from a lame mare that was clearly unhappy. The decision was easy when buet made no difference and her metacam was at full dose and still 2/10 lame.

Do as much reading as you can. In USA TIldren is not used for this purpose as it is not thought to be effective...

Seek a second opinion too its cant hurt.

I guess I'm trying to say hope for the best but prepare for the worse.
 
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Aww that's so sad :(

My girl isn't that bad. I have to be hopeful. She's my dream horse and if we can't do surgery then we will have to manage it very carefully. I will know more in a couple of weeks after she's had her MRI scan. I really can't think of putting her to sleep, that really saddens me. She's having her shoes re fitted based on the X-rays tomorrow so I'm hoping that will help as strangely enough the slight lameness coincides with her shoeing 4/5 weeks ago. She's been fine for 12 whole months! :(
 
I have a pony that had subchondral bone cysts. We think it was a result of a trauma in the field. His were in the pedal bone but on MRI were where the collateral ligament inserted into the pedal bone. I didn't want to do surger due to the risks. He was hopping lame (so much so I thought he had broken something) on the first day. He was boxrested for two weeks on Bute, weaned off it and began to go out in the field but about a month post injury came in nearly as bad again. Then he was xrayed and the cysts found. Then MRI'd. I went with the decision to manage him conservatively but medicate the coffin joint. He spent about nine months with box rest first, then small walks in hand and then built up to turnout in the tenth month. I always only wanted him to be field sound but there was no guarantee so I was ready to make the decision to pts if he didn't cope with being in. Luckily he stayed bright and happy. That was in 2011, he's now in full-ish work but I don't jump him. All I could do was hope I made the right decision as there was very little information on it back then.
 
Hi all,

My girl went for her MRI this week and they confirmed a subchondral cyst in pedal bone, there was no discussion/option to operate. She's actually sound now, once we re-shod her and sorted the balance out (which I think was why she was lame) she was sound again but obv she has this cyst but it's stable and the vet didn't seem too concerned, she just said that we have to manage it and that she will eventually get arthritis in that joint! My regular vet is going to do some steroid injections into the coffin joint as he says this can be beneficial to cysts... I wanted one day for Nikki to be a great eventing horse but I am not going to jump her now, not now I know this cyst is there and we will just continue to do ridden showing and hopefully some dressage! Have to take it day by day, but for the moment she is sound and I will keep on top of her shoeing..

So it's not good not bad news for us. The vet at Leahurst didn't tell me to stop doing anything, and said continue as normal. :)
 
Hi all,

My 11yo ex racer was diagnosed with cysts in both front coffin joints back in December 2012, at first we thought he has a moving abscess as he was on and off lame for a few weeks, following that and him only showing lameness downhill the vet's first thought was Navicular. The vet x-rayed him at the yard but nothing showed up, following that she recommended to have his feet and legs MRI’d and after a long wait to get clearance from our insurers we got the okay and had him scanned at Leahurst Liverpool.
They found cysts in the bottom of both front coffin joint, unfortunately with them being in the centre of the bone they were inoperable and also arthritis in both joints.
He had several injections (I’m sorry but can’t remember exactly what) and put into heart bar shoes, had 6weeks off work and we brought him back into work.
Two years on and he’s still working fabulously! We still keep him in heart bar shoes and has Cortaflex supplement in his feeds each day but other than that he is on no other supplements or painkillers. Touch wood other than the odd missing shoe and a bruised sole he has been perfect.
I don’t jump him nor work him on hard ground but other than that he works like any other normal horse 
Although I know they will get him eventually, until then I have a happy horse that will spend however long he has left, biting me and being his general pain in the bum self haha.
 
Hi

Sorry I know this was an old post but could you advise me please? My gelding has been diagnosed with these in his right knee joint after becoming intermittently lame and having explosive bucking fits when coming downhill. Although the vets says that they shouldn't cause pain (I am not so sure) Did your mare show any other symptoms
 
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