sudden change in my colt/stallion

[18lisa]

hi i have got a 2 and a half year old colt and i got him 4 months ago and he didnt know anything but in 4 months i have managed to lunge him pick up his feet. let the farrier work on him and start workin with the training aid. i go twice aday and have a great bond with him untill 7 days ago. he was fine in the morning and a changed horse in the afternoon. hes kicking, biting trying to headbutt me. he will let me put his headcoller on but as soon as i come out of the stable with him he kicks and bucks and goes mental. he is getting to the point where he wont let me go in his stable with him. since i have got him he has got the same routine. same people around him. i have my mare in another stable which he has never bothered about and they get on great. his behaviour is getting worse day by day. please help many thanks lisa

 

[AengusOg]

Does he have any turn-out? What is he being fed, and have there been any recent changes to that? Have there been any horses arrive at or leave the yard recently? Is your mare in season? What do you handle him in, and do you ever change to different halters/headcollars? Do you wear perfume/strong-smelling, musky oils when handling him? Has anyone else been involved in his handling/routine. Has he pulled back when tied, recently? Is he ok in his mouth?

 

[18lisa]

none of the above what you have said but we have braught him in for the winter as the farmer is a funny bugger over his field!!! hewas full time stabled before i got him and he always goes in on a night after a few hours turnout. hes been in for 3 weeks now. but my partner has noticed he does a weird yawning thing when you are stood with him so i thought it might be his teeth......... what do you think? thanks for your help. lisa

 

[lhotse]

Chop his balls off. That will help. Is there any reason why you are keeping him entire? Does he have valuable breeding? If not, then get him cut before he gets dangerous. What training aid are you using on him? Maybe he resents it, so doesn't want to be handled incase you put it on him again. He's a young horse, he needs turnout, and that might well be the cause of him issues, but I think you will find it's related to his hormones as well.

 

[18lisa]

hes was born with them so he will leave with them! he hasnt had his training aid on for a while so it cant be that. he is a very laid back horse for a stallion. i would like to turn him out every day but the farmer wont let me! i am looking for somewhere else for him to go but not many people will let him on there land. with the signs he is showing i think hes got tooth ache or maybe his baby teeth are ready to come out. but thanks for the help.

 

[Enfys]

hes was born with them so he will leave with them! he hasnt had his training aid on for a while so it cant be that. he is a very laid back horse for a stallion. i would like to turn him out every day but the farmer wont let me! i am looking for somewhere else for him to go but not many people will let him on there land. with the signs he is showing i think hes got tooth ache or maybe his baby teeth are ready to come out. but thanks for the help.

I am watching this thread with interest.

What sort of horse is he?

I would agree with lhotse, unless he's stallion quality, get him cut if his behaviour is causing concern.

He sounds to me like a bored youngster with too much energy, too many hormones, and, he's being a teenager!
The first two can be remedied simply, the third needs more discipline, don't give a colt an inch. I am not talking violence here, but ground rules must be laid, otherwise you will have a thug on your hands.

Presumably you will have his teeth checked if you think this may be the cause of some of his behaviour. I read recently that inappropriate yawning may be a sign of abdominal pain - another avenue to consider perhaps?

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

There has been a flush of green recently in the fields.
This could mean he's had a whiff of spring & is feeling hormones raging & hence the (hitherto unseen) colt behaviour.

He's also being kept in a different manner to before - probably better fed too?
This will also give him more strength to start flexing his boyhood muscles.

Colt's yawing with their mouth is common.

As others have said, geld him if he has no purpose as a well bred stallion for breeding. Am baffled by your comment about keeping them (balls) on - why?
You say you are worried about going into his stable - then things WILL get worse if you don't.
Remove the hormones raging & that will be a start.

Most livery yards will not take on entires, also many struggle to take on youngstock - so couple that with being a cheeky young stallion, you will struggle to get him in anywhere else - paticularly at this time of the year as most tend to restrict turnout due to weather & ground conditions.

Honestly - you would be best advised to give him the chop & then you can work again to get to know him, setting rules as per Enfys's post above.

Good luck

 

[classicalfan]

You may find that you won't have much choice about whether he keeps his balls or not. If you continue as you are you are going to get hurt. It sounds as if he is already gettinng the upper hand and this behaviour has to stop. You have to always be the better horse. Young horses like yours normally spend their time measuring up to the others in their group, finding out who they can dominate. You may feel that nothing has changed but something that you allowed him to do in the morning has given him the upper hand.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Weird yawning. is that the Flehmen response, to be frank you need to get him cut as he is not going to be a happy horse, and going on this way you are soon going to be a very unhappy owner.
If you ever want to ride him, it will be easier if he is done before his stallion neck is developed.
Public studs use professional stallion MEN, this is because stallions can be dangerous if handled incorrectly.
I know some people use stallions for dressage, but they are worked hard and are in professional yards which have proper facilities, and they are the exceptions, many more will have been cut because of their behaviour. which can include biting [through flesh], rearing, and stamping on their grooms.

 

[Miss L Toe]

[BALLS} he was born with them so he will leave with them!

troll perhaps?

 

[AmyMay]

hes was born with them so he will leave with them! he hasnt had his training aid on for a while so it cant be that. he is a very laid back horse for a stallion. i would like to turn him out every day but the farmer wont let me! i am looking for somewhere else for him to go but not many people will let him on there land. with the signs he is showing i think hes got tooth ache or maybe his baby teeth are ready to come out. but thanks for the help.

If you intend on keeping him entire, how will you keep him long term?

He has no turn out at the moment - which his clearly finding difficult. This is his long term future, most likely. How will you manage him in future. But more importatly why would you want to give him a future of solitude and frustration??

Either geld him, and get him some turn out.

Or sell him to someone who has the private facillities to manage and use (if he's any good) an entire.

 

[JanetGeorge]

hi i have got a 2 and a half year old colt and i got him 4 months ago and he didnt know anything but in 4 months i have managed to lunge him pick up his feet. let the farrier work on him and start workin with the training aid.

What is 'the training aid'? (There are literally hundreds of items that fall into that generalised category!)

Your 2 and a half year old colt is quickly on his way to becoming a bored and potentially dangerous stallion! If he's bad now, just wait until the Spring and he WILL kill you! Four months ago he didn't know anything - now he knows he can shove you around.

His teeth would ONLY cause a problem with eating - or while the bit is in his mouth. The only things likely to change his behaviour in the way you have described are: too much feed, not enough turnout, incorrect handling. This combination is bad with ANY youngster - with a stallion, you are signing your own (or someone else's) death warrant!

Get him gelded - now! Or send him on livery to a good stud with experience of raising colts to stallion IF he is worth the investment!

 

[18lisa]

i would geld him if it was just his behaviour and there was nothing wrong with him but my main concern is that he is in pain .his routine hasnt change i havent done anything different to what i do every other day. he wont let me touch his face. he is a welsh cob. before he started being like this he was very laid back and i could do anything with him. when he does go out in the field he is back at the gate after a couple of hours wanting to come back in. he has got great bloodlines nd i was thinking about faoling him with my mare next year! i am not easy to defeat so to geld him is the last last resort. i have been looking around the other forums and alot of people are suggesting hes got tooth ache and the signs im getting from him are suggesting that aswel

 

[AmyMay]

i would geld him if it was just his behaviour and there was nothing wrong with him but my main concern is that he is in pain .his routine hasnt change i havent done anything different to what i do every other day. he wont let me touch his face. he is a welsh cob. before he started being like this he was very laid back and i could do anything with him. when he does go out in the field he is back at the gate after a couple of hours wanting to come back in. he has got great bloodlines nd i was thinking about faoling him with my mare next year! i am not easy to defeat so to geld him is the last last resort. i have been looking around the other forums and alot of people are suggesting hes got tooth ache and the signs im getting from him are suggesting that aswel

If you think he's in pain - then obviously your first port of call is the vet.

And no one is suggesting that you are easily defeated. But really - with enough badly bred animals in this country going for pennies to meat - is there really any need to breed another one????

It's also about providing the best life and future for your horse. Stallions, unless kept professionaly, can have bloomin miserable lives. Why would you want that for yours?

 

[Miss L Toe]

Anyone can buy decent foals off their mother for about £150, why would you even consider breeding.
Most registered horses have a decent pedigree, but that does not mean they will breed good stock, and the chances of you breeding one which will be valuable are about as good as winning the lottery.

 

[lhotse]

I do wonder about some of the horse owners in this country sometimes.
Bangs head against brick wall........

Interesting writing style too, familiar...

 

[forestfantasy]

I do wonder about some of the horse owners in this country sometimes.
Bangs head against brick wall........

This ^^

Christ, this poor colt is shoved in a stable, fed up and his hormones are all over the place! In the wild he'd be covering mares now...his instinct is to do exactly that. Instead you have him cooped up in a stable day in day out and are wondering why he's suddenly got naughty?!

And a training aid on a 2 1/2 year old? why?!

Geld the poor horse.

 

[forestfantasy]

oh and toothache...load of crap

 

[charlie76]

Am I the only confused one? are you saying you are lunging your 2 yr old colt in a training aid? If so why? He is not old enough to be in work like this?

If you are struggling to manage him then the simple answer is geld him. As for tooth/mouth problems, unless he is struggling to eat I would not think this is an issue and I have yet to own one yet that has had teeth/mouth issues that tells you this by attacking you in the stable!

This is a horse that has the upper hand over you, has tested the barriers and realised you are in the bottom of the pecking order.
Unless you have any experience with stallions either sell it or geld it before one of you is injured.

 

[18lisa]

he has only been in 3 weeks as the farmer WHO OWNS THE LAND does not want his fields messing up so i am trying to find him somewhere else to live but i am finding it very difficult to do that. he has had light training with a lunge and just getting him used to a bit and a training aid......... he hasnt had any taining for over a month now as there is no where for me to do it. i was thinking about foaling him with my mare but wasnt a fact!!! my mare is a rescue horse and was badly done to and she is great i would never let a faol go for meat as u so put it. the 2 horses i have will be with me until they die. i do all the right things by them..... i have insurance for them both and they have yearly jabs and worming these horses cost me a fortune! i dont want to geld him as i feel like iv given up on him and taken the easy road iv rang the vet today and they are coming in the morning to have a look at him. the problem im having is that everyone thinks they have the answer to my problem but if i geld him and it ends up been something else i cant change the fact that i would of had him gelded. please would some people read the comments before answering as alot of comments on here seem to be far fetched and not what im doing.

 

[18lisa]

just to add that i am trying to make his life better but no one here can see what im doing!!! making phone calls visiting farms etc etc......... if i didnt want him to have a good life then i wouldnt put posts on here asking for help and advise. the farmer have become very awkward and evan moved the gate off the field so i cant let him out.im trying my best in a awkward situation if i argue with him then im scared he will kick me off and my horses will be homeless................

 

[Rosehip]

Hmmm, Looking at things logically, it is unlikely (but not impossible) for him to have tooth/mouth pain that is causing him to be difficult and sharp, however the most likely cause of his sudden change has got to be his recent change onto winter stabling.
OP, you say he has now been in full time for about 3 weeks? Have you changed/upped his feed and hay at all? If he isnt getting enough hay/haylage then it could be that he is hungry and possibly starting with ulcers, which would make him barge, bite and push you when you enter the stable. On the other hand, could you be feeding him too much? Perhaps he is fizzing with pent up energy (a bit like a kid on blue smarties) and that is a cause of his agression?

What is his bloodline? You say he is a welsh cob? I think that you need to sit down and have a really hard think about using him as a stallion, not just is he good enough, but is your mare good enough, and also if the farmer is being funny about his grazing, if you do put your mare in foal to your lad, what will you do with 3 of them if you were kicked out?

 

[AengusOg]

You shouldn't argue with the land owner and lose your grazing, or house, over this, but you must take a responsible attitude to your problem as this young colt could quickly become more dangerous than he is at the moment.

You'd be better with a nice mare and a nice gelding. Then, if you want to breed your mare any time in the furure, you can always look for a nice stallion at that point. Thousands of horses are gelded every year, and live good, happy lives thereafter.

The thing about colts is this...they are competitive, and they are always going to dominate you if you don't handle them correctly. That's not saying that you have to be hard on them or violent toward them. Quite the opposite, in fact, as they need to be loved as much as any other horse, but they do need consistent, firm handling. You can't take them on and beat them, nor can you just assume that because you love them they will love you back. They must be treated well, but you must remember that they will quickly spot any weaknesses in you and will take advantage at the drop of a hat.

I have a Fell pony colt. He is a lovely quiet boy who is good with the kids (with the stable door between them), and has learned to step back from the door when it's opened, wait till he's asked to come out, stand back whilst his feed is put in, tie up and stand patiently, and generally just be nice to have around. He has tried to bite a couple of times, but I basically ignored that and let him feel my elbow on the chin, making out I knew nothing about it. He hasn't bitten since. I've never shouted at him, or hit him, or yanked him around.

By contrast, I have a friend with several colts and stallions. He is never finished boxing with them...he bangs them on the nose if they try to bite him, or taps them on the side of the face/neck/muzzle, and they are never finished trying to nip him. He gets in their face if they look at him the wrong way, so they are always looking at him the wrong way. He can't get over how quiet my colt is, and thinks there is something wrong with him.

Tell me how you handle your colt, and what training he has had to date. I'm not saying you beat him or anything, but it is important to know what needs to be addressed. PM me if you like. And where are you?

 

[18lisa]

he gets 2 feed bowls aday which is the same when he was out. he gets the same amount of hay and ends up wasting most of it on the floor. he was stabled on a night in the summer as he kicks at the gate when it is getting dark. i pulled him in full time 3 weeks ago and for the first week he used to go out for about an hour while i cleaned his stable then week 2 the farmer started complaining so he has only been out once in the last 2 weeks. i wasnt planning on breeding my mare untill i bought some land but there is not much land about for sale and not many auctions either. sire - DYFFRYNALED CYMRO. damsire - TROFARTH CELT dam- TROFARTH EIRIAN. thanks for your help rosehip

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

OP - I hear your concern to do the best by your horses and know it can be difficult when your situation sounds like it isn't ideal for you or horses...but I do have to agree with the majority of other posters here...
I had a sec a colt who started to display virtually exactly the same behaviours as yours, a year younger...despite having excellent bloodlines (Revel) and being very pretty, he was gelded, backed and is now a model citizen and child's lead rein pony. I have a sec D youngster who also has excellent bloodlines (at least 3 Royal Welsh winners in his lines who have all won RW 3 times each and many other famous sec D's) he too was starting to display dangerous behaviour before I had him, but he too has been gelded...he will be kept and backed, as will his half-brother. They have both been suggested as Ridden Cob prospects by a RW judge. They could easily have been bred from, but the fact is despite being great examples of the breed, there are many more stallions out there who are better than them.
I live in North Wales, where there are many many fabulous studs for all the Welsh sections...a lot of them have left their mares empty this year, or retired from breeding because too many of their quality ponies and cobs are fetching such poor prices. The youngsters they do have are being retained, to geld and back rather than sell too cheaply.
Maybe it would help to see gelding as a smart option for your youngster, , rather than as an 'easy way out' - you won't have given up on him, you will be giving him many more options to live a useful life.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Rosehip]

Hi Lisa,
Looking on Allbreedpedigree, the sire Dyffrynald Cymro only has his sire line (which is nice btw) listed, so I cant see what the damline is like in that, the Damsire Trofarth Celt is super, a very nice line, but the Dam Trofarth Eirian isnt listed at all. In reality, if you were wanting to go (county and above) top end showing with your boy, and his progeny, then you would need a complete pedigree record.
I breed SHP/SP/RP types, and it matters less, as long as there are some names, but with pure bred welsh's the bloodline needs to be spot on.

Im not putting your lad down, as the bloodline I can see is nice, but it is a consideration when thinking of breeding from him etc.

If you have a look on Barbers auctioneers website, they usually have some nice smallholdings, and often land without buildings on it too.

 

[JanetGeorge]

he gets 2 feed bowls aday which is the same when he was out. he gets the same amount of hay and ends up wasting most of it on the floor.

If he's getting the same hard feed (what type??) as when he was out - that's probably part of your problem! He could burn off excess energy in the field - now he takes it out on you! How much hay do you give him - and do you use a net? If he's not eating a reasonable amount, this could be due to retained caps (not that they would make him misbehave.)

His breeding - TBH - is not 'exciting' enough to shout 'potential stallion' at me. His paternal grand-sire WAS a Champion - but sire and dam have no apparent claim to fame. There are hundreds of Welsh Cob stallions out there - maybe thousands! He is going to give you nothing but trouble as he matures - and what for?? A 'free' service for your mare (who doesn't seem to have much claim to fame either!)

I don't mean to be unkind but there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of 'ordinary' stallions out there - not even covering their keep, and producing ordinary foals that no-one wants! Many of them have unhappy, boring and unfulfilled lives - some are downright dangerous!

I have a 3 year old colt (ID) who is VERy rare bloodlines - but failed to impress the graders so he's Class 2. I have used him on a few GOOD selected mares, in the hope of breeding a colt who will be good enough to grade Class 1 and keep (maintaining his bloodlines). Then I'll geld him. I wouldn't sell him as Class 2 - because the sort of stud who would be interested, I wouldn't TRUST to give him a decent life!

Stallions need proper management from day 1 - and that means plenty of turnout, proper handling and feeding, and very good fencing and facilities. You CAN'T keep a stallion properly on a stray bit of farm - nor a livery yard - where you can't control his care and management. And - I'm sorry - but everything you write suggests you are NOT experienced enough to keep a stallion. He WILL get worse - and one day he's going to hurt you badly!

Please - follow the advice of knowledgeable people on this forum and GELD HIM!

 

[lhotse]

I think this is a troll to be honest, and the writing style leads me to believe that it is another poster who has also made some rather outlandish claims about their stallion, and stud farm. Interestingly, that person hasn't appeared to post since they were caught out. If it's not a troll, and is genuine, then I pity the poor horses that are owned by this clueless owner..........

 

[Enfys]

I do wonder about some of the horse owners in this country sometimes.
Bangs head against brick wall........

Interesting writing style too, familiar...

I did wonder, but decided to give the benefit of the doubt.

 

[cptrayes]

hi i have got a 2 and a half year old colt and i got him 4 months ago and he didnt know anything but in 4 months i have managed to lunge him pick up his feet. let the farrier work on him and start workin with the training aid. i go twice aday and have a great bond with him untill 7 days ago. he was fine in the morning and a changed horse in the afternoon. hes kicking, biting trying to headbutt me. he will let me put his headcoller on but as soon as i come out of the stable with him he kicks and bucks and goes mental. he is getting to the point where he wont let me go in his stable with him. since i have got him he has got the same routine. same people around him. i have my mare in another stable which he has never bothered about and they get on great. his behaviour is getting worse day by day. please help many thanks lisa

He's become fertile, have him gelded.