Sudden naughtiness for the farrier

[RhiaNoelShowing]

Apologies for the long post in advance! So in April 2018 I bought a 4 year old 17.2hh ISH gelding who had been lightly backed and was pretty much a blank canvas with hopes for him to become a nice MW hunter that I could show. He passed a 5 stage vetting with one comment, imbalanced feet that could be corrected with the right farriery. I think we may have taken this statement a bit lightly, he'd never had shoes on and his back feet had a lateral flare. When we got him home my farrier shod him, he only spent about an hour on him and didn't see him move at all. His feet looked good, but looking back we were very naïve. I was ready to take things as slow as possible due to his size so began with short and sweet sessions in the school (about 20 minutes) and half hour hacks with my mum on our older horse - we didn't get very far, in September he came out of the field lame. After several vet appointments, x-rays and MRI's (none of which were covered by our insurance) we were relieved to find out that there was nothing sinister and that the correct shoes would solve his issues. We're now at the end of Jan and we've changed farriers, our new farrier spends a lot longer on him, watches him move and checks in between shoeings however another problem has presented itself. He is now misbehaving for the farrier. We have had our current farrier three times in total, once for a lost shoe and twice for new sets and each time he has been awful. He'll stand fairly nicely to have the shoes removed and have his feet trimmed but putting the new shoes on is another story! He's taken to snatching his front feet and striking out and snatching/kicking out with the back ones, he only seems to so this when the farrier is banging the nails in? He doesn't appear to seem frightened and my farrier is very sympathetic, never raises his voice or gets frustrated although last time we had to finish with only 3 shoes on as it was getting dangerous and we don't want him to learn this behaviour! I suppose I am at a loss - My farrier has asked us to get some sedative for him to take the edge off to get the last shoe on and for the next few shoeings which I have done. Does anyone have any inkling as to why this behaviour has started? Just general youngster behaviour? Is he fed up with all the messing about with his feet? I want the best for him and this is really getting me down. Any ideas?

 

[Fiona]

Hopefully a wee drop of sedalin will do the trick, and its just young horse bolshy behavior.

If horse is sound at the moment then that's a good sign that there isn't another cause for the behavior, especially if its all feet rather than just one where he is messing about.

Fiona

 

[ihatework]

Unless he is doing it soley due to discomfort then don’t let it get you down, it’s completely solveable, if a bit of a faff in the short term (but worth making the effort).

I bought a big young horse that wasn’t good to shoe. It probably took about a year in total to get to the point where he was completely reliable. There is plenty you can do to help - some of the things I did:
Exercise before hand - they are loosened up and mentally a bit tired

Choose your times carefully ie not at dinner time or when the yard is busy or his best mate is in the field etc.

Do the feet in pairs, two one week, two in a different session. Done quicker and less boredom.

Having them stand alongside a wall seems to help on the balancing front.

I used 30ml of sedalin to start and over time reduced the amount until he could have a full set without.

Obviously, in between visits practise banging his feet with a hammer, and asking him to hold his feet up for extended periods.

 

[be positive]

If he was good to shoe between April and Sept, when he went lame, then bad since and getting worse from the sound of things I would be a bit suspicious that there is something going on higher up, which may explain why his feet were not good in the first place, or as a result of them,I would get a physio in to assess to see if they can find something that may be causing discomfort and use sedalin to shoe.
I have had a few tricky ones but they all improved over time with plenty of patience, even the one that was terrified and had to be sedated by the vet eventually managed to cope.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Yes (following post above) I would suspect a pain issue somewhere too.........

 

[honetpot]

Is he getting very close to the white line, and causing discomfort? If he was footy on all four feet it would be harder to spot.
We had a TB that incipaiated pain after the farrier made him bleed. Bute before shoeing? Change farrier? Look for something else?

 

[Goldenstar]

Sedaline or similar works well for shoes issues and you need to get to work tapping with a little hammer in between shoeing .
It may be pain in the foot due to the farrier getting near to the senestive parts as he works to balance the foot .
However and it’s a big however flares behind are a big red flag for hock issues and I would get the hocks checked out ASAP .

 

[Pearlsasinger]

This doesn't sound like just a 'naughty' or bored horse to me, if he was good/ok to shoe previously. I'm not really sure why you had him shod, if he was sound without shoes when you got him. However, I would start investigations as to why he is now reacting. It sounds like pain, or anticipation of pain, associated with shoeing, rather than with trimming/farrier in general. I would be tempted to remove the shoes, in case there are foot issues which will be more easily identified without shoes.
And just to be clear, I am not a 'barefoot in all situations' advocate, I have had plenty of shod/part shod horses but our current two who were bought as 2 yr olds have never had or needed shoes and I am prepared to think that shoes are not always necessary.

 

[RhiaNoelShowing]

This doesn't sound like just a 'naughty' or bored horse to me, if he was good/ok to shoe previously. I'm not really sure why you had him shod, if he was sound without shoes when you got him. However, I would start investigations as to why he is now reacting. It sounds like pain, or anticipation of pain, associated with shoeing, rather than with trimming/farrier in general. I would be tempted to remove the shoes, in case there are foot issues which will be more easily identified without shoes.
And just to be clear, I am not a 'barefoot in all situations' advocate, I have had plenty of shod/part shod horses but our current two who were bought as 2 yr olds have never had or needed shoes and I am prepared to think that shoes are not always necessary.

Thank you for your response, I had him shod because this was recommended by our vet to correct the imbalance of his feet and because it is a necessary requirement for the level I would like to compete to. I to have had horses who have been partially shod/not worn shoes and I understand the benefits and that each horse is different however I bought this horse to show him. He is now sound and nothing to note on any of his scans/x-rays, I had the physio when he went lame and she found him to be in good health, I have booked her again for beginning of Feb so we'll see what she thinks then.

I maybe should of explained his behaviour a bit better - The farrier adopted the technique of using the hammer to bang next to the nail for about 10 seconds then swapped to the nail and he didn't notice, no reaction at all which we praised him lots for. He then tried to remove the banging before and bang the nail straight in and he snatched his foot away, his ears are pricked the whole time he does this and once he gets his foot down he goes back to being a dobbin.

I bang his feet with a hammer often and he's more or less fine with me, I think he sees the farrier coming! I like the idea of shoeing the front two one week and the back two the week after so he's not standing as long as he seems to get worse the longer he stands so will try that along with the sedative.

 

[RhiaNoelShowing]

Sedaline or similar works well for shoes issues and you need to get to work tapping with a little hammer in between shoeing .
It may be pain in the foot due to the farrier getting near to the senestive parts as he works to balance the foot .
However and it’s a big however flares behind are a big red flag for hock issues and I would get the hocks checked out ASAP .

Thank you for your reply, we have definitely gone back to basics with the hammer, holding feet up for a long period of time etc! He has had everything checked/scanned extensively so I'd be surprised if there was anything but thank you!

 

[RhiaNoelShowing]

If he was good to shoe between April and Sept, when he went lame, then bad since and getting worse from the sound of things I would be a bit suspicious that there is something going on higher up, which may explain why his feet were not good in the first place, or as a result of them,I would get a physio in to assess to see if they can find something that may be causing discomfort and use sedalin to shoe.
I have had a few tricky ones but they all improved over time with plenty of patience, even the one that was terrified and had to be sedated by the vet eventually managed to cope.

She well be back out again on the first week of Feb so will see what she thinks then, sedative should be with us in the next few days so fingers crossed he can manage to stand nicely for the last shoe to go on.

 

[RhiaNoelShowing]

Unless he is doing it soley due to discomfort then don’t let it get you down, it’s completely solveable, if a bit of a faff in the short term (but worth making the effort).

I bought a big young horse that wasn’t good to shoe. It probably took about a year in total to get to the point where he was completely reliable. There is plenty you can do to help - some of the things I did:
Exercise before hand - they are loosened up and mentally a bit tired

Choose your times carefully ie not at dinner time or when the yard is busy or his best mate is in the field etc.

Do the feet in pairs, two one week, two in a different session. Done quicker and less boredom.

Having them stand alongside a wall seems to help on the balancing front.

I used 30ml of sedalin to start and over time reduced the amount until he could have a full set without.

Obviously, in between visits practise banging his feet with a hammer, and asking him to hold his feet up for extended periods.

Thank you, hope restored

 

[Pinkvboots]

If it's just the back feet he objects to it might just be his not had them done previously, or it could be discomfort having them held up for a length of time, I think I would be tempted to take the back ones off, most horses can do without hind shoes and they can be shown like that, one of mine is barefoot and has done fairly high level showing, lots of horses that compete at Hoys are also barefoot or only have fronts on.