Suing an owner for injury to rider

[Goldenstar]

Unless the owner/loaner objected to her riding the horse on this occasion, she was riding as part of her normal employment and this is an industrial injury, which owner/loaner's insurance company will deal with. She could be off work a very long time and her injuries could be such that she has sustained life-long effects

I assume they are dealing with it and have said no not paying .

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Only one driver involved, just like the horse. Black ice, slide into a wall. Car is insured if fully comp, but they don't pay out on your insurance for injuries that happen to the insured driver, usually, do they? I thought you had to have personal accident cover for that.
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Fully comp, is just that, afaik.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I assume they are dealing with it and have said no not paying .

Or not without a court order, which would not be unusual.

 

[ycbm]

Only one driver involved, just like the horse. Black ice, slide into a wall. Car is insured if fully comp, but they don't pay out on your insurance for injuries that happen to the insured driver, usually, do they? I thought you had to have personal accident cover for that.
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Just checked this out, sometimes it's included and sometimes it's an optional extra. Learn something every day.

 

[Gingerwitch]

It's the Daily Fail'

It's not just in the fail though and that worries me even more for potential consequences for this industry. Imagine you move yards and new groom is turning your horse out. He stands up waving to the clouds and falls over hitting new groom. Your Facebook feed quotes that he reared once before (maybe playing in the field after being on box rest) your now potentially on the hook to be sued. Or your ri hops on your pony and goes over, again were potentially liable.

 

[Rowreach]

It's not just in the fail though and that worries me even more for potential consequences for this industry. Imagine you move yards and new groom is turning your horse out. He stands up waving to the clouds and falls over hitting new groom. Your Facebook feed quotes that he reared once before (maybe playing in the field after being on box rest) your now potentially on the hook to be sued. Or your ri hops on your pony and goes over, again were potentially liable.

I was replying to the "Fox hunting" comment.

 

[Nari]

Doesn't it say in the article that she says she was asked to hunt him by the son, who was neither her employer or the horse's owner - facts that she'd have been aware of. If that was the case then she was riding without the owner's permission and not as part of her job.

 

[honetpot]

It's going to hang on whether there was some contract of employment for that day, and it was a preventable accident, which if it is a sudden onset of catastrophic trauma I would imagine it would be impossible to do. I think you must prove, negligence. You just have to insure for everything and hope you never need it. If you are employing someone make sure you do risk assessments for difficult horses, get staff to read and sign them, and make sure they get support. I would never take on any one as 'experienced' and leave them on them own.
If she is a pro she should have her own cover, but her insurance company will try and push the claim to her, 'employer'.
Many years ago I was employed full time as a groom, when I had a long term illness I claimed SSP and my employers then had to pay all my NI contributions, which they obviously had not paid.

 

[chocolategirl]

So reading the article, I would say no, she shouldn’t get compensation. She had ridden the horse many times, and by her own admission, she knew the horse was ‘hot’. It sounds like something catastrophic happened which caused the horse to do what it did because it died a s a result, possibly a heart attack. Riding horses is risky, it doesn’t say if the horse had ever reared before, if it did, why did she agree to ride it, and if it hadn’t, then that’s just unforeseen ?

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

This is why no one, bar me, has ever sat on mine since I've had him bar my instructor in one lesson when he was being really stuffy.

Hes not at all dangerous and quite lazy but he can spook. He also spooks at random things, eg odd coloured sand/ mud on the road etc

It's just not worth the aggro if for whatever reason I let someone ride him and they came off- what if he spooked at something I hadn't listed he may spook at- (he is Welsh after all, the latest thing is a puddle in a layby that he goes past every time we go out)- what if they came off?

I guess it would depend on why he reared, there seems to be conflicting information about him some saying he was tricky, others saying its creating a wrong story about him

I guess she would have a leg to stand on if he had reared previously, and this wasn't disclosed- I wouldn't ever even get on a rearer so if I suddenly ended up on one I hadn't been told did so, I'd be furious

Surely they will need to do a postmortem, if it was something like a heart attack (can it make them rear?) Then that's just bad luck and I don't think she could win. Or did he rear for another reason then get fatally injured from how he fell

Also if it was just him and knew he could be tricky, how did she manage the situation did she make it worse?

There's also conflicting stories over why she was on him, some say it was to straighten him out for the son, others for her own fun.

Tricky one that we need the full story for as at present there's a lot of conflict stories.

Again just adds to my views to not let anyone bar me get on mine. If anyone were to need to ride him for any reason, I almost feel I'd need to provide them with a full risk assessment and disclaimer that they then sign! He's not even that difficult and more often than not, lazy. But Welsh and spooky!

 

[Honey08]

The horse industry really needs a shake up. It pays peanuts, expects people to work like dogs, not mutter if injured etc.

When I worked with horses back in the 80s I got my own personal insurance as a groom. I had a mortgage and wanted security if I got injured.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Under those circumstances no she shouldn’t get a pay out.

 

[shortstuff99]

I'm guessing it will all depend on whether it is decided whether she was being employed or on her own time. From that what the insurance/terms of employment were. I've had jobs where they will pay me for loss of limb/accident etc, no matter if the company was negligent or not.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

From the description of what the horse did it had a heart attack, reared up as it was dying and obviously no longer had any control of it's body because it was dead whilst it was in the air hence how it landed.

If you have ever seen a horse have a heart attack the body doesn't stop instantly. Obviously the heart is gone, the brain is then dying, the body still has nervous system instructions that are being relayed round the body hence it doesn't stop and become motionless instantly.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

It's in the Daily Fail....not even worth the read ???

 

[AmyMay]

It's in the Daily Fail....not even worth the read ???

The story is also elsewhere, and is exactly the same ?

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

The story is also elsewhere, and is exactly the same ?

Ahhh ok, usually I avoid the Fail like the plague lol

 

[teapot]

The Fail's only picked it up as it's in court, article from 2019

https://kaleistyleguide.com/news/2019/11/02/groom-suing-fracturing-pelvis-beaufort-hunt/

 

[SOS]

Both articles mention Tommy was on loan to her employer. Therefore is the owner liable or her employer as the ‘guardian’ of the horse?

 

[Apercrumbie]

I'd be interested to see what the post-mortem says - it sounds like a heart attack to me and I'd wonder how that would affect a payout? If it isn't a heart attack, she has grounds for a claim. I can see why the owner would be annoyed - how can you control an animal and eliminate risk? Impossible.

Ultimately though, employers should have good, proper insurance that covers accidents. If I tripped over in my office and had a serious injury, I know that my employer's insurance would cover me. It should be the same in the equine industry too, it's just we have a culture of toughing it out that keeps us in the dark ages.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Tricky one. My OH’s old boss sent me an equine barrister after my accident (not my choice, I was in no fit state to think of suing and didn’t want to) It was my choice to catch in the horse that trampled me, so there was no case, IMO.

 

[criso]

This detail is in the Mail so need to take it with a pinch of salt. The key seems to be on whether she was riding it for fun on her day off or as part of her work. She claims she was riding it as part of her work to get it ready for the season; her employer claims otherwise. If she was riding it as part of her job then it becomes an accident at work.

 

[SO1]

It does make me worry a bit though. I have a freelancer who works at the yard riding my pony 3 times a week due to lockdown as I am reducing number of visits to the yard to 3 times a week. He is 19 and fairly quiet and she is an AI so much better rider than me. However there is a risk with any horse that someone riding could get a serious injury especially if the horse had a heart attack.

 

[PurBee]

If i worked as a rider in the horse industry rider various known and unknown horses I would have my own insurance cover for accident and death.
I wouldn’t be seeking compensation from the owner of the horse.
I choose to ride the horse, so i’m the one taking a gamble, not the horse or the owner

(this story is bitty to read but sounds like horse reared due to death throes, poor animal - unfortunate the lady was on the horse at this horrific moment)


When i was responsible for client estate properties and scaling scaffoldings that made my knees knock at times!...i was insured for millions.

My choice to be in a dangerous profession, the responsibility lies with me alone to accept the concequences and have mega-insurance as back-up should i need it.

 

[Red-1]

I had an accident at work, one of the things, if anyone was to blame it was me. I had no thought of claiming against my employer, but I did get treatment via BUPA. Bupa did look at recovering their costs from my employer!

Few people ride my horses. They say they would not claim, but I know it may not be them who does. Besides, most people (including me) would claim if it was for life changing injuries. That is what insurance is for. I would simply rather not have the hassle.

 

[Gingerwitch]

From the description of what the horse did it had a heart attack, reared up as it was dying and obviously no longer had any control of it's body because it was dead whilst it was in the air hence how it landed.

If you have ever seen a horse have a heart attack the body doesn't stop instantly. Obviously the heart is gone, the brain is then dying, the body still has nervous system instructions that are being relayed round the body hence it doesn't stop and become motionless instantly.

Something I never want to witness again, but a very accurate description. Being landed on by a horse is flipping painful, even when the get straight up, to be trapped under anything of 500kg or more must have been horrific.

 

[sport horse]

It's not just in the fail though and that worries me even more for potential consequences for this industry. Imagine you move yards and new groom is turning your horse out. He stands up waving to the clouds and falls over hitting new groom. Your Facebook feed quotes that he reared once before (maybe playing in the field after being on box rest) your now potentially on the hook to be sued. Or your ri hops on your pony and goes over, again were potentially liable.

This is why anyone who owns a horse should have a good comprehenive insurance policy in place. Horses are dangerous and unpreictable even old plods!! If you are at livery, ask to see your yards insurance policies so that you know they are in place. If you employ Freelancers ask to see their policies. If you are paying cash in hand, beware you may hit problems!

Insurance is very expensive. I have a private competition yard and small stud and my Public Liability and Employers Liability runs into thousands of pounds. Cheap livery may be cheap because that is where corners are being cut.

 

[criso]

It does make me worry a bit though. I have a freelancer who works at the yard riding my pony 3 times a week due to lockdown as I am reducing number of visits to the yard to 3 times a week. He is 19 and fairly quiet and she is an AI so much better rider than me. However there is a risk with any horse that someone riding could get a serious injury especially if the horse had a heart attack.

I would check the small print on your public liability insurance, it will cover for other people riding your horse but check for exclusions if payment is involved. If you were asking the yard to exercise and they give the task one of their employees it would come under their insurance.

 

[honetpot]

It does make me worry a bit though. I have a freelancer who works at the yard riding my pony 3 times a week due to lockdown as I am reducing number of visits to the yard to 3 times a week. He is 19 and fairly quiet and she is an AI so much better rider than me. However there is a risk with any horse that someone riding could get a serious injury especially if the horse had a heart attack.

If your rider is truly self-employed, and there is government guidance on this, they should have their own insurance, third party and public liability.
https://britishgrooms.org.uk/freelance-grooms-insurance

 

[Annagain]

It's pretty obvious that with those injures, she won't be able to work for a long time and is entitled some sort of insurance pay out to live / get treatment. It's not so much about who was to blame (it does seem to be a horrible accident) but whether she was a self-employed freelance groom or employed by the owner so should the payment come from her personal injury insurance (if she has it) or his employer's liability insurance. It's probably the insurance companies pushing it to court rather than the people involved.