Supplement and feed rabbit hole...

[AutumnDays]

Sorry, this is long!!
It's been a bit of a slow morning in work, and I've gone down various rabbit holes regarding supplementation and studies on this forum and other online articles etc, and then looking into ingredients lists on products. The general consensus is that as our weather is now all over the place, and horses don't have access to a wide variety of plants these days, sorting gut health out can help with a myriad of general issues.
I've planted lots of herbage, other grass species and cleared ryegrass in the fields, but it's not doing so great due to weather and being a new ley. I now have 3 nags, the boys being the two recent additions (one 18months ago, one 4 weeks ago!), both have rubbish feet and iffy tummies (newest arrival didn't have regular foot care, and is a bit thrushy, loose, stressy belly, stress poos at the slightest worry, other boy had so many issues with lameness, lack of regular foot care and being obese, healthy weight now, sound, but feet are also a bit thrushy this winter). Everyone lives out. Not really fed at the minute, because of paddock changes and not knowing what is best, but they have historically had a token of pink mash, TCZ, salt, mag ox, oily herbs and fennel seed. I have thought about adding psyllium husk in to help with the tummy issues guys, but they hate it once it's up to the recommended amount for a purge, would it still be beneficial feeding a scoop a day (the amount they will eat)? What should I be mixing it in to? No one is in anything that could be called work, all are barefoot, unrugged, and on a track type system (not restricted grazing at the moment, due to struggling fields, plenty of hedgerows and safe trees to browse) with poles etc for encouraging varied movement so they do something in a day! I'm being confused by all these "essentials" that are expensive for one, never mind three! Happy digestion and good hooves are my main concerns.
Just generally looking for advice or people to share their experiences/thoughts and help clear the fog. Thank you

 

[Fieldlife]

In terms of psyllium husk, I thought main reason for feeding it was to remove ingested sand. If you do the sand / poo / glove test, I would only feed it is there is sand in the poo.

In terms of improving gut, have you tried a myotoxin binder - Rowan Barbary sell Mycosorb A fairly reasonably.

Equally a good pre / probiotic would be worth trying (not at the same time).

Finally do you not feed any vitamin and mineral supplement or balancer? AFAIK most UK grazing is low in selenium, zinc, copper and magnesium, and these should be supplemented. Plus horses should get sodium. These things in isolation are pretty cheap to add, try a few months as a trial.

 

[Exasperated]

Sorry, this is long!!
It's been a bit of a slow morning in work, and I've gone down various rabbit holes regarding supplementation and studies on this forum and other online articles etc, and then looking into ingredients lists on products. The general consensus is that as our weather is now all over the place, and horses don't have access to a wide variety of plants these days, sorting gut health out can help with a myriad of general issues.
I've planted lots of herbage, other grass species and cleared ryegrass in the fields, but it's not doing so great due to weather and being a new ley. I now have 3 nags, the boys being the two recent additions (one 18months ago, one 4 weeks ago!), both have rubbish feet and iffy tummies (newest arrival didn't have regular foot care, and is a bit thrushy, loose, stressy belly, stress poos at the slightest worry, other boy had so many issues with lameness, lack of regular foot care and being obese, healthy weight now, sound, but feet are also a bit thrushy this winter). Everyone lives out. Not really fed at the minute, because of paddock changes and not knowing what is best, but they have historically had a token of pink mash, TCZ, salt, mag ox, oily herbs and fennel seed. I have thought about adding psyllium husk in to help with the tummy issues guys, but they hate it once it's up to the recommended amount for a purge, would it still be beneficial feeding a scoop a day (the amount they will eat)? What should I be mixing it in to? No one is in anything that could be called work, all are barefoot, unrugged, and on a track type system (not restricted grazing at the moment, due to struggling fields, plenty of hedgerows and safe trees to browse) with poles etc for encouraging varied movement so they do something in a day! I'm being confused by all these "essentials" that are expensive for one, never mind three! Happy digestion and good hooves are my main concerns.
Just generally looking for advice or people to share their experiences/thoughts and help clear the fog. Thank you

Full marks for trying, and for taking on problem animals! I’m just drawn to keeping things simple as possible, so good luck, you definitely deserve it.

 

[AutumnDays]

Full marks for trying, and for taking on problem animals! I’m just drawn to keeping things simple as possible, so good luck, you definitely deserve it.

Thank you, that's so very kind of you. Simple but effective is what I'm aiming for!

 

[Albus15]

I used to be someone that fed 8 different supplements, but actually have realised that a good quality balancer is the only one they need 95% of the time... the only other thing I can highly recommend is the Protexin range.

 

[AutumnDays]

I used to be someone that fed 8 different supplements, but actually have realised that a good quality balancer is the only one they need 95% of the time... the only other thing I can highly recommend is the Protexin range.

I was looking at the protexin range, the gut sponge and the balancer. Are these something you have used?

 

[SEL]

I was looking at the protexin range, the gut sponge and the balancer. Are these something you have used?

I was thinking protexin quick fix when I read your opening post. If you don't want bucket feed you could syringe it although it's palatable enough in a small amount of chaff.

 

[Peglo]

I use the Protexin gut balancer for both of mine. I don’t know if I noticed any difference in them (but I didn’t start feeding in for any symptoms) but I started taking pre/probiotics myself and I rarely get colds now when I used to get them frequently so I will keep mine on it just incase its doing good things inside.
I must say I noticed the biggest difference to mine feeding oily herbs.

 

[AutumnDays]

I use the Protexin gut balancer for both of mine. I don’t know if I noticed any difference in them (but I didn’t start feeding in for any symptoms) but I started taking pre/probiotics myself and I rarely get colds now when I used to get them frequently so I will keep mine on it just incase its doing good things inside.
I must say I noticed the biggest difference to mine feeding oily herbs.

I had high hopes for the oily herbs. Maybe getting back on them with a balancer like a spillers one for everything else is a good way to keep it simple but effective, rather than lots of powders and feeds to hide it in

 

[Peglo]

I had high hopes for the oily herbs. Maybe getting back on them with a balancer like a spillers one for everything else is a good way to keep it simple but effective, rather than lots of powders and feeds to hide it in

Mine get equimins advance complete powder, gut balancer and herbs. The small one is a hippo and eats hers with just a bit of chaff. The big one gets speedibeet with hers and they eat it up.

I feed 2x 60ml scoops of herbs a day so a bit more than others do but we don’t have hedges for them to forage in and a limited variety of grasses. Your set up sounds great.

 

[AutumnDays]

Mine get equimins advance complete powder, gut balancer and herbs. The small one is a hippo and eats hers with just a bit of chaff. The big one gets speedibeet with hers and they eat it up.

I feed 2x 60ml scoops of herbs a day so a bit more than others do but we don’t have hedges for them to forage in and a limited variety of grasses. Your set up sounds great.

Thank you for sharing your routine, that's very helpful

 

[TPO]

I feed oily herbs to 3. I can't say I've noticed a single change but now I'm too scared to stop

I've used Protexin Gut Sponge and Gut Balancer. I've got a fairly long thread on here about my sick horse. At the start of the thread he was undiagnosed and thr worse than useless equine vet kept upping the bute. That alone almost killed him and made things 200x worse.

During that period horse was scouring very badly. I did use Gut Sponge and had success. Even more surprising that it helped because the horse was eventually diagnosed with some very serious internal/Gut issues (inflammatory bowel disease and had delayed gastric emptying).

I use Gut Balancer fairly regularly. I've only cut back for now because it's in his chaff and pink mash. The levels are probably negligible but he also gets mycosorb a+ which contains yea sacc.

I second a good Balancer (vit/min). I can't see past Progressive Earth. The horses seem to find it more palatable than Forage Plus and there's none of the ethical issues like there are with equimins.

As a side note one batch of equimins advance made my horses really ill - scoured and burnt their quarters. I'd been feeding it fine and then started a new tub that was a slightly different colour. I reported it back to equimins and they asked for samples. I sent one and they said they didn't receive it so I sent another and apparently they didn't receive it either. I should have sent it recorded but wasn't thinking. So that was me out of pocket for the supp and 2 lots of postage with no resolution.

Again, 3 horses all fed the same and on the same grazing. 2 started a new tub and 2 got very upset stomachs within a matter of days. Their droppings dried up and general demeanor improved as soon as the supp was stopped.

Progressive Earth Pro Balance + is my usual. I've occasionally "upgraded" to Pro Hoof or Platinum if there's been an issue. The other 2 get Pro Basic. Can't tell a difference in the condition between all 3.

I've also started feeding natural vitamin E. The compromised horse is getting it year round and the other 2 just through winter. Again, can't tell a blinking difference between this first winter on it or any other winter!

If I lived in Alaska you'd be able to sell me ice... I am just trying to do the best by them, especially the ill one.

So yeah- oily herbs, Balancer, Gut supp, salt, vit e, mycosorb...

Being sensible I'd recommend a good Balancer (pro Earth) and salt for starters

 

[Peglo]

@TPO can I ask what the ethical concerns are with equimins please? I’ve noticed good hoof growth, especially on the big horse since I switched to using it but since there are other options out there I’m not against changing it.
I have noticed a difference in tubs but my horses haven’t had any noticeable changes.

 

[AutumnDays]

Thanks @TPO, that's very informative. Like you, I didn't notice any change feeding oily herbs, but worry I'd be undoing something if I stop. I've tried various samples of the powder balancers, and the sods won't eat them. The mare curls her lip and flicks the bucket over, the boys take a mouthful and and spit it everywhere. They are on the pink mash, which they do eat, but I'm guessing it's not very tasty to hide the powders, hence me wondering about the pellets, as spillers say they have biotics in? Why are they so awkward and fussy?!

 

[Albus15]

I was looking at the protexin range, the gut sponge and the balancer. Are these something you have used?

Yes, my personal favourite is the Acid Ease (it's the balancer plus a bit extra!). I've used their syringes when moving yards and around worming - I usually have one or two spare!

I also use the equimins advanced complete care powder (they also do a pelleted version) as a balancer. I've thoroughly compared the ingrediants and quantities per gram and find it excellent, plus a great value for money!

 

[TPO]

@TPO can I ask what the ethical concerns are with equimins please? I’ve noticed good hoof growth, especially on the big horse since I switched to using it but since there are other options out there I’m not against changing it.
I have noticed a difference in tubs but my horses haven’t had any noticeable changes.

Ethical was probably the wrong word, apologies.

There's a long thread in here about them changing one of their products (I want to say Vitamin e), not disclosing the change not being honest when directly asked. That's where I got ethical from but perhaps trustworthiness is a better word.

Hopefully someone who was affected sees this and can clarify what exactly happened. In my head I think @Michen was maybe involved? Apologies again if I'm wrong.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I feed Pro Earth Pro Balance Basic, Coopers Gut support, Pro Earth vitamin E, oily herbs & a Equine Answers joint supplement with Purabeet.

Mine is on soaked hay so think he does need supplementing with a good vit/min and vitamin E. I've noticed a difference on the gut supplement but on the fence about oily herbs but they are cheap, so

 

[Michen]

Ethical was probably the wrong word, apologies.

There's a long thread in here about them changing one of their products (I want to say Vitamin e), not disclosing the change not being honest when directly asked. That's where I got ethical from but perhaps trustworthiness is a better word.

Hopefully someone who was affected sees this and can clarify what exactly happened. In my head I think @Michen was maybe involved? Apologies again if I'm wrong.

Nope not me!

 

[TPO]

Nope not me!

I've found an old thread and it appears they were passing off synthetic vitamin E as natural, and for quite a while.

Randomly found a post that you posted about it but you weren't on the original thread. Not sure why you stuck in my head, sorry!

 

[lynz88]

I can confirm it was the Vit E - Equimins claimed it was natural vit E when in fact, it was synthetic.

I have been feeding Equimins Advanced Complete even though I'm not a fan over what they did regarding the Vit E and have to say mine looks great on it. I finally got rid of frizzy burnt looking fur and he has a great shine to him. So I'm keeping it

I also feed oily herbs. I took him off once and he lost weight and became very stuffy. So I put him back on very quickly.

I also feed MSM and Vit E and recently started jiaogulan (I mix these with the AC powder for the yard). Once again with all of these, I've noticed a difference if he goes off. MSM and jiaogulan are cheap as chips and have noticed he's been far more forward and physio did confirm yesterday he looked a lot more comfortable. The Vit E is absolutely required - I have tried a few times taking him off and always end up with a sad, skinny, weak, lethargic horse. I can feed less in the summer but definitely needs high levels in the winter.

 

[AutumnDays]

I have actually taken mine off feed and supplements for the last few weeks, and will be that kind of person that journals their stats and what I've added/changed/taken away they all have a different issue, and I get so confused and forgetful with everything else happening in life at the moment, I thought it would be a good idea to keep a log! Some very helpful insights here, thank you

 

[Exasperated]

I can confirm it was the Vit E - Equimins claimed it was natural vit E when in fact, it was synthetic.

I have been feeding Equimins Advanced Complete even though I'm not a fan over what they did regarding the Vit E and have to say mine looks great on it. I finally got rid of frizzy burnt looking fur and he has a great shine to him. So I'm keeping it

I also feed oily herbs. I took him off once and he lost weight and became very stuffy. So I put him back on very quickly.

I also feed MSM and Vit E and recently started jiaogulan (I mix these with the AC powder for the yard). Once again with all of these, I've noticed a difference if he goes off. MSM and jiaogulan are cheap as chips and have noticed he's been far more forward and physio did confirm yesterday he looked a lot more comfortable. The Vit E is absolutely required - I have tried a few times taking him off and always end up with a sad, skinny, weak, lethargic horse. I can feed less in the summer but definitely needs high levels in the winter.

Never used any Equimins products myself, but seem to remember that, irrespective of synthetic origins, a fair number of people actually thought Equimins Vit E was more effective than other brands of genuinely natural Vit E....
If it works.....don’t break it!

 

[Cragrat]

I have actually taken mine off feed and supplements for the last few weeks, and will be that kind of person that journals their stats and what I've added/changed/taken away they all have a different issue, and I get so confused and forgetful with everything else happening in life at the moment, I thought it would be a good idea to keep a log! Some very helpful insights here, thank you

This will be a very interesting experiment ! - please share