Supplements musing - do you / dont you?

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HBII

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Random musing on a Downhill Hump Day!

I am 'for' feeding supplements and spend alot of time considering the benefits as far as I am concerned to adding them to my feed regime. A couple of people I know do not add supplements what-so-ever and consider them a bit of a waste of money.

What do you feed and why? Or if you dont what is your reasoning behind this?

I feed brewers yeast [a good range of Vit B's]; a good Vit & mineral supplement [to balance her feeds]; supplease joint supplement [older horse] & agnus castus [for her hormones].

Hbii :)
 
will feed magnesium and garlic not a lot else - I don't like to over do it and I find that the Magnesium helps my little shetland with his feet not sure if it has a calming effect on my youngster as hes laid back anyway but I do think its helped the condition of their feet as farrier has said that their feet are looking and feeling really strong (they weren't weak or anything before but there has been improvement) so that is it for me - the young lad gets oil to add calories without excitement as id quite like him to stay as he is chilled out wise but thats all - not really one for spending loads unless there is a lot of proof it makes a major difference.
 
Hm, with the brewers yeast how to say his gentle, it is more or less a fairy tale. Yes of course yeast is higher in B vitamins than chocolate, but it is not what most people think.

If we analyse yeast in a lab we will figure out that we have to feed up to 2.5 KG per day for to supply a sufficient amount of this.

So yes it is higher in B vitamins like for an example hay or oats, but a spoon full of this is only enough to top up the diet of a rat in regard to the body weight.

Other supplements, well I develope some, produce them but I have a strange opion about this.

You should only use them when you need them. Better stick with a balanced diet for to keep you horse healthy instead of playing with supplements.

An old and wise greek man did say, we are build from nutrition. So healthy and balanced nutrition = healthy organism.

Supplements only in the case of need or if you want to keep a shop happy.

The money you save not using them when there is no need for, you can spend on proper stuff when there is a need for.

Or on clinics, holidays, dentist, farrier tires for the car.

If a horse is sick, it should get the best. But if not why irritate the nature?

And this from a man producing Supps, so think about ;)
 
Forage balancer and salt by default. TB also gets brewer's yeast and yea-sacc for his digestion.

ETA: Fintan, that's assuming you're using brewer's yeast to supply the daily recommended dose of the B vits, which is not necessary, as horses produce B vits in the hind gut - brewer's yeast is only a top up. It's also rich in chromium, which helps regulate blood sugar levels.
 
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@ 2 Stroke

I agree. This was meant in such a way that somethings are given unproofen to horses because there is a nice story around.

Earlier it was with humans: Eat your spinach there is plenty of iron in and you will get strong as popey.

So everybody had to eat spinach untill to the time they did analyse it again and did figure out it was a mistake.

By the way, you will have more chromium from mollasses than from the yeast.

The self synthesis of vitamin B in a horse is true, but there is a little trap in performance horses.
The synthesis is dependend on a sufficient supply of fiber and a healthy intestinal flora.

With some performance horses you will have the problem of hindgut acidosis caused by overfeeding concentrates and with this a very reduced synthesis.
But at the same time you will have a far bigger demand of B vitamins than in a "healthy" and less performing horse.

The same rule is value for horses with other gut problems.

But for to top up B vitamins we should also know how much a horse will need.
As well what is the supply from yeast.

So a 650 KG Horse in light work will need about 32 mg Vitamin B 1, 52 mg B2 and 16 mg B6.

The yeast will supply in the average with one gram 0.13 mg Vitamin B1, 0,04 mg Vitamin B2, 0.4 mg Vitamin B 6.

So if we put this in relation to the requirement we can make up our mind how valuable the Idea is to top up with yeast.

It is a nice idea, but the reality is cruel.
 
When competing at top level showjumping with ponies (14.2s) I needed to use a magnesium based calmer to keep them from being silly and focused on their job- without the calmer their performance would have been a lot worse. Saying that my horse at the moment doesn't need the calmer so I think you just need to only use supplements when you really need them.
 
I do .
General purpose vit and min supplement
Farriers formula or pro hoof if needed ( personally I see more benefits from farriers formula.
Electrolytes
Mag ox
Wynergy ventilate if needed
I always have Protexin in the feed room for when I need it.
I have used joint supplements in the past and was not convinced I was not wasting my money but would consider doing so in the future .
 
I sumplement with:
- Sodium bicarb to help maintain my horse's gut health - she gets diarrhea when not on it;
- Pre/Probiotic (can't remember the brand) for the same reason. I do 45 days, then stop for 15.
- Calphormin because she is still young and in work, so vet though it would be a good idea to give her a little help.
- Linseed oil and vitamin E
- A biotin supplement (very complete one, can't remember the brand!)
- I don't know if it counts, but I do Adequan and Tildren once a year because she's under a lot of work and I want to keep her sound!

The feed she's on now has garlic, mint and fenugreek, but I am considering changing.

I compete in dressage, do a lot of national and international shows with her so she's treated like the little princess she is!
 
Micronised Linseed for both
Joint supplement for mare's spavins (Equimins)
Have used Brewers yeast for sweet itch but I've run out now

Also tried Devil's Claw

SCMSL - are you saying you're using Tildren and Adequan on a sound horse??
 
I feed a good multivit / mineral that balances my feed
Salt
Diamond V Yeast to support my TB digestive system he is more sensitive than the others.
 
Yep, as sound as they come. But per vets advice, I wouldn't just decide to give anything on my own.

He is an awesome vet who treats most of the GP horses here - his own two kids compete in GP and PSG and his horses are wonderful.

When my mare arrived from Germany I asked him to come and do another vetting just to be sure. I then asked him what I should do to make sure my horse gets to GP without any issues. He designed a program for her which includes the Tildren, Adequan, and the Calphormin to help her out.
 
I use a website to see how balanced my boys diets are and I add or subtract mineral suppliments to cover what my boys are lacking.
This way I am not wasting monney on unneccessary feeds and I also ensure that they are getting fed a well balanced diet.

The change in their coats since I have started feeding them this way is amazing! Both of them glisten, even when filthy dirty. :)
 
I've always been of the 'its a waste of money' brigade but now own the oldest horse I've ever had (he's 13) so have started him on Equiflex as I want to keep him and ride him for as long as possible. Seeing a friend still riding her 28 year old, who she spends a fortune on with supplements, makes me think that perhaps they do work. They are very expensive though and with money tight at home, I did wonder if another £10 a month is going to be worth it.
 
I feed a balancer alongside a high fibre/forage diet specifically so that I don't have to feed an array of supplements . . .

. . . however, since his hock surgery I have added pure MSM to support his joints and b/c he has dropped quite a bit of weight due to poor forage/higher workload, have also added oil and am thinking about adding micronised linseed. Oh, and I also add salt to his feed - but I've always done that.

P
 
Nope, not with new horse. With the last one, yes, countless supp's... joint supplement, various natural things that were supposed to help with arthritis (rosehips, cider vinegar and so on), brewers yeast, magox, yea-sacc, linseed.

This one gets linseed meal if he needs more energy or a bit more condition but I can't feed much as it gives him a runny bum. He exists on hay, grass and a handful of chaff. I was pondering adding a balancer but decided against it. He is a fairly good weight (for the end of a long, cold winter), on his summer paddock with good, old turf type grass, gets hay at night in stable, is full of beans, nice coat, great feet, bright eye. So I figure he's probably managing OK without a supplement :)
 
I feed a joint supplement, as recommended by my vet following treatment on her hocks a few years ago.

When I see people putting supplement after supplement into feeds I can't help thinking they must all be working against each other?

By feeding a good quality feed I see no reason to go adding vit supplements etc.
 
My horse will be getting (in the next few weeks when she comes home): Aquacid (does a few things, but has helped with her issues in the past, so she's staying on it. It's also made in an area of Ireland that I really like, so I hope by purchasing it will help their economy.)

After she has been diagnosed with ulcers, I have purchased a small packet of Alltech Lifeforce, after reading about it on here, and meant to be good. (It's also made near home, so again helping to support local businesses!)

Also going to try her on Equifeast's Cool, Calm and Collected, as I have a suspsion we may need it!
 
I do - Naf Biotin (4 level scoops daily) and a few mls of Apple Cider Vinegar. I have always used ACV and introduced biotin Around four months ago to help keep her sound as she is barefoot and I'm pleased to say that I have noticed excellent results and my farrier has commented also, so I will be keeping her on the biotin:) £15 for a refill every 2 months I can live with that:)
 
my ponies are all on a high fibre diet, quite often restricted as they are very good doers. I either use a general purpose vit & min or balancer, although can't say I'm convinced either of these make a difference.

One pony that had lami last year is on farrier's formula, which has made a huge difference but I will stop after this tub as she has a whole new hoof now.

Another lami/cushings/ems pony gets naf thrive - I find this works better than just magnesium, no idea why but this is from 3 years experience! She also gets cinnamon (for blood sugar) and micronised linseed (for coat condition).

I gave my oldest pony (15) who was a bit snotty in the autumn and one that suffered badly with mud fever echinacia over the winter but have stopped now that it is warmer.

All have free choice salt licks. Not many supplements each, but between them my feedroom looks like a drugs store!
 
It's not really a question of do you or don't you.. you HAVE to. Well, most people do.

Grass/Hay alone does not ever provide enough of what domesticated animals need dietary-wise. Energy maybe but not essential vits n mins.

Cattle, sheep and other ruminants HAVE to have supplements if not roaming on good pasture or housed for winter.

Same goes for horses and ponies.

NOT supplementing is asking for all sorts of trouble. People who say they don't and have animals in excellent health are probably lucky to live in excellent soils... move in with them!!!! :D

You're lucky if where you are has soil that can provide pasture with everything. Hence fertilisation... that in itself can cause problems so... supplements are needed. Doesn't really matter what you use - licks, tubs, spoonfuls, sprinklings whatever, it all helps.

After all that, you have to take into account the individual animals.... sooooo complicated and different for everyone.
 
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tallyho! said:
It's not really a question of do you or don't you.. you HAVE to. Well, most people do.

Grass/Hay alone does not ever provide enough of what domesticated animals need dietary-wise. Energy maybe but not essential vits n mins.

Cattle, sheep and other ruminants HAVE to have supplements if not roaming on good pasture or housed for winter.

Same goes for horses and ponies.

NOT supplementing is asking for all sorts of trouble. People who say they don't and have animals in excellent health are probably lucky to live in excellent soils... move in with them!!!! :D

You're lucky if where you are has soil that can provide pasture with everything. Hence fertilisation... that in itself can cause problems so... supplements are needed. Doesn't really matter what you use - licks, tubs, spoonfuls, sprinklings whatever, it all helps.

After all that, you have to take into account the individual animals.... sooooo complicated and different for everyone.
Click to expand...

I do for minerals but this is interesting about vitamins http://www.doctorramey.com/the-colo...ur-horse-probably-doesnt-need-extra-vitamins/
 
Tbh, websites are full of contradictions. I have stopped reading them. I go by the Merck Manual as that has trials behind it and use the animals as a barometer for health.

I know that certain deficiencies cause problems. Seen it for myself.

Also, I cannot take any website seriously for saying human vitamin supplements are useless.

Working in the NHS and seeing vitamins and minerals used to save lives kind of makes me shake my head at people who say they are rubbish.
 
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I do too - Vit E, magnesium and salt particularly, and if turnout is an option a hindgut buffer, and a gastric supplement when routine changes (vaccination time, competitions). There are others but they are more ad hoc depending on environmental circumstances and how she's going. Frankly I don't really think of feeds as 'feeds' as hay is her feed, meal feeds are there to supplement what she can't get from hay and her hugely limited grazing in order to be a happy performance horse.
 
I feed supplements.
I have used in the past - for various reasons after reaserching:
Brewers yeast
Fenugreek
Cinnamon
Cider Vinegar
Oregano
Basil
Camomile
Nettle
Peppermint

I currently regularly feed to all my horses for optimum health
Fresh Garlic
Fresh Ginger
Sunflower Oil
A small amount of sea salt.

I have been a great advocate of supplements/herbs for a number of years. xxx
 
I currently feed magnesium to both my horse and companion pony, calming for the biggun, help with sugars in the grass for both.

Salt for both to help encourage drinking and flush out excess in the grass

Agnus castus for the biggun for mareishness but now the nice weather is here I don't know if I need to bother, think it was just winter grumps, the taste is foul also!

Micronised linseed for both - both get itchy dry skin and I want to keep their skin tip top to prevent any sweet itch symptoms, and feet benefits, and a little extra for condition when the big one was getting too ribby!

To be honest I do believe in supplements and I often think 'hey who doesn't want better hooves?' Or 'what horse doesn't need digestion help?' but its gotta stop somewhere!
 
mandwhy said:
I currently feed magnesium to both my horse and companion pony, calming for the biggun, help with sugars in the grass for both.

Salt for both to help encourage drinking and flush out excess in the grass

Agnus castus for the biggun for mareishness but now the nice weather is here I don't know if I need to bother, think it was just winter grumps, the taste is foul also!

Micronised linseed for both - both get itchy dry skin and I want to keep their skin tip top to prevent any sweet itch symptoms, and feet benefits, and a little extra for condition when the big one was getting too ribby!

To be honest I do believe in supplements and I often think 'hey who doesn't want better hooves?' Or 'what horse doesn't need digestion help?' but its gotta stop somewhere!
Click to expand...

I IMHO think too many supplements on the horse market - all designed to guilt buy them and make us think if I dont buy this Im failing my horse - herbs been about since time began and responsible horse ownership, a good diet and proper feeding not only proves these do all in a scoop supplements as a fake but also pressure buy the products - our grandfathers didnt have all these and had great looking horses - healthy and in great condition..
Maybe we rely too much on products now and forget true horse care? xxx
 
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