suspected ulcers

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Podgelover

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Hi All,

I think my gelding might have ulcers...
He has an issue with his TMJ and is 24 years old. My vet and I came to the decision that a CT scan to find the cause of the problem would not be appropriate at his age, and the cost would not be covered by insurance, and instead to feed him something he can easily manage. My vet suspects it is a degenerative arthritis and even if we CT'd there would be little to do about the issue, I have now retired him from ridden work as advised by my vet.

He is fed haylage, which I now use a chopper to chop finer as if it is course he struggles to chew. He is now eating a lot better, before I was chopping his haylage he would only manage to eat as little 2kg a night, he is now on about 7-8 and is getting better by the day. He is a 15.3 TB.

His stools are fine. He is very miserable, his skin is awful, its extremely scurfy and he is loosing patches of hair. My vet has prescribed Malaseb shampoo for a fungal skin infection, which I am using as much as I can but with it being such awful cold weather I am struggling to bath him without him getting too cold, so I have not been able to bath him as much as I would like. His attitude has changed hugely, I put it down to him being hungry and struggling to eat, and he has got better over the past few days, but he still hates being groomed.
Once I get my grooming bag out he walks to the back of his box and stands there, with his head down, when I do brush him he walks away. If you tie him up, he kicks under his stomach and swishes his tail...

Is he likely to be itchy from the shedding of his coat and skin or is it more likely to be ulcers? Am I worrying too much and should give him more time to adjust to his feed again, he could be grumpy from having been so hungry!?

His attitude is improving as he is eating more, but it's still early days, I've only been trying him on the chopped haylage for the last few days. My vet has seen him numerous times and has not mentioned anything about ulcers, but having done some research (bloody google) I am concerned it may well be ulcers? He ahs a hard feed of an ultimate balance (d+h) dengie hi-fi, and pasture cubes, all of which he has been on since November and have had no issues with..

If it is suspected ulcers are there any supplements that work to ease them, as a scoping and medication is almost the same as a CT scan!?
 
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Is he on/ has he been on a lot of bute? Like I told you in my PM, we had problems with ulcers when my pony was put on bute for her jaw problems. If he's on bute, I would asking the vet for alternatives if you suspect ulcers are now a problem. Ulcer supplements/feeds are designed to prevent ulcers or to stop them re-occurring in treated cases - treatment in my case involved antibiotics, gastroguard etc after scoping, no supplement could replace the treatment. Your vet is probably the best person to be talking to if you are worried x
 
Darkwater said:
Is he on/ has he been on a lot of bute? Like I told you in my PM, we had problems with ulcers when my pony was put on bute for her jaw problems. If he's on bute, I would asking the vet for alternatives if you suspect ulcers are now a problem. Ulcer supplements/feeds are designed to prevent ulcers or to stop them re-occurring in treated cases - treatment in my case involved antibiotics, gastroguard etc after scoping, no supplement could replace the treatment. Your vet is probably the best person to be talking to if you are worried x
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Hi darkwater, he has been on bute, but I have taken him off the bute now. He is eating happily without it, which for him is a great achievement. I thought that would be the case about being a preventive not a possible cure. I think I will give him a few more days to settle back into eating healthy and see if his attitude changes. Silly question maybe, am assuming scoping can't be done on site?

Thanks,
 
Scoping can be done on site but not all vets have a gastroscope so that may limit your options.

Regarding his skin and general condition, micronised linseed would be good and is also helpful to the stomach, it won't cure any ulcers but can help line the stomach so would be useful generally. He may improve now he is eating better, ulcers can heal without intervention but that usually involves a complete management change which in your situation may not be possible, turning away fully can be enough for them to heal if it is stress/ pain/ medication related but with an ongoing physical issue you are unlikely to be able to totally remove the pain/ discomfort.
 
I assume he is no longer ridden? You can get scoping done on site, but it costs a lot more than taking to the vet, if you can get a vet to come out to you. (I did this when I had a horse I wanted scoping, but no access to transport, and didnt know how she would load for a transporter.) It did make the whole thing a lot less stressful than taking horse to vets.

However with your horse, I would possible be tempted to leave him for a while, and see what happens, without adding any ulcer supplements. It could just be that he is feeling very ill within himself. Global herbs do a detoxifying supplement that is meant to help with coat changes and other bits and bobs, might be worth seeing if that makes any difference to him.
 
wench said:
I assume he is no longer ridden? You can get scoping done on site, but it costs a lot more than taking to the vet, if you can get a vet to come out to you. (I did this when I had a horse I wanted scoping, but no access to transport, and didnt know how she would load for a transporter.) It did make the whole thing a lot less stressful than taking horse to vets.

However with your horse, I would possible be tempted to leave him for a while, and see what happens, without adding any ulcer supplements. It could just be that he is feeling very ill within himself. Global herbs do a detoxifying supplement that is meant to help with coat changes and other bits and bobs, might be worth seeing if that makes any difference to him.
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He's no longer in ridden work no, he began bucking when ridden, not eating his haylage, grumpy etc which is very unlike him. The vet then diagnosed the issue with his TMJ. He did say the only way to fully diagnose was with a CT but the cost of that is just more than I can afford so we opted for the option of changing his diet, which over the last few days seems to have worked well.

I would have thought if it was ulcers the vet would have picked up on it. I'm just worried about him at the moment!
Thanks for the global herbs idea, I hadn't heard of it, but it sounds like it could help!
 
Have his teeth been checked too? By someone good? I have a young mare with teeth problems and she gets very grumpy at times. I can't use ulcer drugs for her so instead I feed her limestone flour (calcium) four times a day which seems to help and also micronised linseed which is very good for skin.
Have you thought about testing him for cushings which can cause skin problems?
 
Recently my boy (aged 19) has been diagnosed with both Gastric and Hind Gut Ulcers (Diagnosed via scoping). He is already on a good fibre diet. He was treated with Gastrogurd and Succeed for his Hind gut. On top of these I have started him on Sodium Bicarb and Aloe Vera Juice. I get mine from BARRIER ALOE VERA JUICE FOR HORSES 500ML, 5L . I started him on the 500ML and have now bought the 5L one. As well as helping the gut it will help the skin too. Well worth giving your horse it too.
 
Silverfire said:
Have his teeth been checked too? By someone good? I have a young mare with teeth problems and she gets very grumpy at times. I can't use ulcer drugs for her so instead I feed her limestone flour (calcium) four times a day which seems to help and also micronised linseed which is very good for skin.
Have you thought about testing him for cushings which can cause skin problems?
Click to expand...

Initially the first vet I saw thought it was teeth, but after being given and after a month or so of no difference I got a second opinion, for him to be diagnosed with the TMJ issue, which makes more sense as he was incredibly hard work on one rein etc. I hadn't thought if testing for cushings as I thought that my symptoms were the opposite? His skin is scabby, scurfy and falls out with the scab, the scab reveals no open wounds just a bald patch, they are very small scabs. But if there is a few in one area obviously you have a noticeable bald patch. Did you find the calcium made any different to the temperament of your horse? How quickly did you find it kicked in?
 
paulineh said:
Recently my boy (aged 19) has been diagnosed with both Gastric and Hind Gut Ulcers (Diagnosed via scoping). He is already on a good fibre diet. He was treated with Gastrogurd and Succeed for his Hind gut. On top of these I have started him on Sodium Bicarb and Aloe Vera Juice. I get mine from BARRIER ALOE VERA JUICE FOR HORSES 500ML, 5L . I started him on the 500ML and have now bought the 5L one. As well as helping the gut it will help the skin too. Well worth giving your horse it too.
Click to expand...

Hi Pauline! I've heard aloe Vera a lot, have you found it's made a difference ? Do you just add it to his feed? Did you notice much difference to any temperament? He's a fizzy Tb as it is without adding anything that might make him worse!!
 
My boy has always been a laid back lad so apart from him being grumpy around his girth area he has always been quiet.

Keeping him on a full fibre diet and the only added thing is Micronized Linseed this gives him the extra energy he needs to do the longer distances (He's an Advanced Endurance Horse) I have recently added Baileys "Keep Calm" which with my other competition horse I feel has just taken that extra fizz out of him and is keeping him calmer.

The Aloe Vera Juice I feel has quietened his gut down especially his Hind Gut. I just added it to his feed or sometimes I will give him 50 mls by syringe before I give him some Alfa about 20 minutes before I go out on exercise.

During an Endurance ride at the halfway point I also give him 50 mls this again helps his guts and calms them down.
 
Podgelover said:
Initially the first vet I saw thought it was teeth, but after being given and after a month or so of no difference I got a second opinion, for him to be diagnosed with the TMJ issue, which makes more sense as he was incredibly hard work on one rein etc. I hadn't thought if testing for cushings as I thought that my symptoms were the opposite? His skin is scabby, scurfy and falls out with the scab, the scab reveals no open wounds just a bald patch, they are very small scabs. But if there is a few in one area obviously you have a noticeable bald patch. Did you find the calcium made any different to the temperament of your horse? How quickly did you find it kicked in?
Click to expand...

Skin problems in older horses can be because of cushings. My mare was scoped with ulcers 12 months ago and as I can't give her gastrogard as it upsets her hind gut problem I used Cimetidine instead, she had a vasculitis type reaction to that within 3 weeks so as she was still acting ulcery I tried the limestone flour and she does seem happier. I think it was probably a week or so before I noticed a difference in her.
 
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