Suspensories and school surfaces

[J_sarahd]

As some of you know, Nova was diagnosed with PSD in April. Our rehab has been going well and we have been doing the large majority of it out hacking (she has been trotting with another very well). I went in the school the first time I sat on her (safety!!!) and then again today - where a problem arose that I need advice etc on.

So, we have the saddle fitter on Friday and I thought I’d take her in the school for a quick ride so that it’s not all completely “new” when getting the saddle done. Absolutely golden in walk, starting to stretch down and walk nicely. I wanted to just do short bursts of trot down the long sides but when I asked to trot, she curled up, went really crabby and not happy. I did manage to ride her through it (not by force or beating her at all, just by asking and then patting her at any trot steps, which started at just one and then we got a long side in trot, back to walk, asked again and we got another long side). As soon as I changed the rein, it was the same crabby, nappy behaviour. But again we managed a long side in trot.

Obviously her saddle is being checked so it very well could be that. Her teeth are due so they will also be looked at. But, is this kind of behaviour likely to be remembered pain and/or the school surface causing pain?

I’m really hoping it’s an easy fix like that because if there’s anything else sinister going on, I’ve already made up my mind that unfortunately, she will be pts. But after all of our bad luck in the last 12 months, my brain automatically goes to “you need to call the vet and get it investigated”. Sorry if that makes me sound like a bad owner!

 

[TheMule]

What is your arena surface and how deep would you say it rides at the moment? For example, I have a sand and fibre arena which rides well when wet but can ride a bit looser/ deeper if it has been very dry and that is harder work, especially with a soft tissue niggle.

 

[J_sarahd]

It’s rubber and it probably is riding a bit deep

 

[SEL]

It was a deep surface that stuffed the suspensory in my big mare. May also have strained the DDFT in the opposite fore but we were focusing on the more obvious problem at the time. Can you avoid the arena?

 

[J_sarahd]

Yeah we have good hacking around us and plenty of arenas to hire if she ever gets strong enough to school properly again. Obviously just a bit concerned about the saddle fit now as want to get it checked as thoroughly as possible. What about groundwork in the arena? Only because I’m trying to juggle the kissing spine work (walk poles, groundwork etc) too

 

[Timelyattraction]

I Saw this post in the psd group and thought it was you deeper surfaces aggravate the suspensories a lot more and its a lot harder in the school than the straight lines on firm surfaces out hacking so i would probably say it is still a bit of pain. Have they been rescanned since you have been rehabbing her and if so what improvement did they show? As far as my rehab plan went it was 4-5 months of straight line firm surface / hacking before any mention of school work but i know they are all different

 

[Timelyattraction]

Sorry i forgot you had the op so im guessing it’s different! I didnt go for the surgery so im not sure if the same thing would apply as i thought it was essentially de nerving so they couldnt feel the pain so would they still feel it?

 

[J_sarahd]

I Saw this post in the psd group and thought it was you deeper surfaces aggravate the suspensories a lot more and its a lot harder in the school than the straight lines on firm surfaces out hacking so i would probably say it is still a bit of pain. Have they been rescanned since you have been rehabbing her and if so what improvement did they show? As far as my rehab plan went it was 4-5 months of straight line firm surface / hacking before any mention of school work but i know they are all different

Haha yes I love that group but always post anonymously because I get scared. They were rescanned mid-June before we started our ridden work. The vet said they were healing well. They said I could go in the school pretty much immediately but I have been avoiding the school, and will do from now on for a good while.

I thought the same about the op and how they technically shouldn’t be able to feel it, which is why I’m concerned there’s something else going on.

 

[Timelyattraction]

Haha yes I love that group but always post anonymously because I get scared. They were rescanned mid-June before we started our ridden work. The vet said they were healing well. They said I could go in the school pretty much immediately but I have been avoiding the school, and will do from now on for a good while.

I thought the same about the op and how they technically shouldn’t be able to feel it, which is why I’m concerned there’s something else going on.

After our first rescan my vet said we had improvement and i can introduce trot and start riding her instead of doing it inhand. I did the trot for a a week or so . And then got back on board. She started napping as soon as i asked her to walk forwards (despite being absolutely good as gold out long reining herself). Continued inhand for a couple weeks tried again. Same thing. Took her back to the vets, suspensories had got worse with the trot work and turnout so she was obviously telling me she was still hurting. Probably worth talking to your vet and seeing what they think in regards to if they can still have feeling there and if so probably go for a rescan and see how they look. Ive heard of the surgery not working so it must be possible that they can still feel something there?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It’s rubber and it probably is riding a bit deep

The school I use is sand rubber and it varies in different places I find although it was recently dug up so is a bit better, they never used to harrow it either so was not great and Arabi struggled as it was almost always on like a camber around the edge.

He also feels like he doesn't want to trot in there so i don't really ride him in there anymore as his had slight damage to both suspensories although it was treated and he is sound, I want him to remain sound and as his 20 now I'm not bothered.

With your horse it could be remembered pain or as you say saddle, teeth so I would try again after they are done and see how she is.

You could try taking her to a different school and see if it may just be your arena.

 

[J_sarahd]

The school I use is sand rubber and it varies in different places I find although it was recently dug up so is a bit better, they never used to harrow it either so was not great and Arabi struggled as it was almost always on like a camber around the edge.

He also feels like he doesn't want to trot in there so i don't really ride him in there anymore as his had slight damage to both suspensories although it was treated and he is sound, I want him to remain sound and as his 20 now I'm not bothered.

With your horse it could be remembered pain or as you say saddle, teeth so I would try again after they are done and see how she is.

You could try taking her to a different school and see if it may just be your arena.

Yeah ours doesn’t get harrowed very much either. Really hoping it’s something as simple as saddle (especially as it hasn’t been checked since pre-kissing spine diagnosis and she undoubtedly has changed shape with all the time off/rehabbing etc) or the school surface (although that forces me to think about perhaps moving yards - depending on the level of work Nova can stand up to).

I’m just really dreading the idea of taking her back to the vets. Not because I don’t want to (my vet bills from the last 12 months show I am always willing to call the vet at the slightest concern!) but because I’m scared of them finding something else and then that being that.

 

[I'm Dun]

Remembered pain is talked about a lot but I'm not convinced it was a thing. Horses are simple creatures, if they think something is going to hurt they will often object, but if they then go on to do that thing and it doesn't hurt, they don't usually continue to object. I think remembered pain is used an awful lot when there's actual pain. It might be as simple as its hard work and causing muscle soreness, or that there's something sinister going on.

I'd have the saddle fitted and hack round the yard or the lane and avoid the school completely while its riding deep.

 

[J_sarahd]

Remembered pain is talked about a lot but I'm not convinced it was a thing. Horses are simple creatures, if they think something is going to hurt they will often object, but if they then go on to do that thing and it doesn't hurt, they don't usually continue to object. I think remembered pain is used an awful lot when there's actual pain. It might be as simple as its hard work and causing muscle soreness, or that there's something sinister going on.

I'd have the saddle fitted and hack round the yard or the lane and avoid the school completely while its riding deep.

To be fair to her, once I got a trot out of her on one rein, I went back to walk and asked again and she was fine the second time. It was just then going onto the other rein caused her to react again until we managed to get the trot and just did the same transition to walk and then trot again and called it a day.

 

[I'm Dun]

To be fair to her, once I got a trot out of her on one rein, I went back to walk and asked again and she was fine the second time. It was just then going onto the other rein caused her to react again until we managed to get the trot and just did the same transition to walk and then trot again and called it a day.

That would fit with remembered pain then, but its how much you want to push to check it really is just that. Its been a hard road with her for you.

 

[Timelyattraction]

That would fit with remembered pain then, but its how much you want to push to check it really is just that. Its been a hard road with her for you.

Can you go back in today and do it again and see if she does it again or just goes? have you got a grass arena you could try see if she does it there? Its so difficult. Just continually questioning weather its pain or not its just so draining

 

[J_sarahd]

That would fit with remembered pain then, but its how much you want to push to check it really is just that. Its been a hard road with her for you.

I think I’ll see what the outcome of the saddle fit is (everyone please cross your fingers that this is the issue!) and if it’s not, I’ll see how she goes out hacking as we actually haven’t trotted out hacking on our own yet due to solo hacks being just about keeping her calm recently. If she is displaying the same behaviour and it doesn’t get any better after a couple of days, then sadly, it will be the vets.

If she doesn’t do the same thing out trotting on her own, I’ll hire an arena and see if she does it there.

Realistically, I’ll just be hacking for the large majority of the year anyway but having picked at this scab, I want to see what I’m dealing with. Especially as my vet said we should be returning to normal work by September (which, to me, means flatwork?)

 

[J_sarahd]

Can you go back in today and do it again and see if she does it again or just goes? have you got a grass arena you could try see if she does it there? Its so difficult. Just continually questioning weather its pain or not its just so draining

Annoyingly, there are lessons on from 4-7.30 today so I won’t get in the school. I’ve been in a constant state of worry since November and I’d just like it to be easier please. I know it wouldn’t be plain sailing but when the vet says you can do something and you do it and get an adverse reaction

 

[Timelyattraction]

Just seen your other reply above and seen youve only trotted in company. Interestingly the only time my mare would tolerate me trotting her (or even riding her ) before we went back for our rescan was out hacking with another horse and i assume thats because shes only going because the other horse is and she doesnt want to be left . Everyone was telling me she was being nappy and it was remembered pain but i knew she weren’t right. Going back to the vets proved that. So i would definitely get her on her own and see if she will trot then. If not then I would say she is still sore.

 

[J_sarahd]

Just seen your other reply above and seen youve only trotted in company. Interestingly the only time my mare would tolerate me trotting her (or even riding her ) before we went back for our rescan was out hacking with another horse and i assume thats because shes only going because the other horse is and she doesnt want to be left . So i would definitely get her on her own and see if she will trot then. If not then I would say she is still sore.

That’s interesting. Yeah I’m going to try that tonight

 

[Timelyattraction]

That’s interesting. Yeah I’m going to try that tonight

Praying for you. My outcome was not good and my mare is now living out in the field with my other retired horse for the next year. Going to rescan her next spring and see if she can heal on her own , vet said it has been done and worth a shot, but if not then i dont know what to do. Mines only 6

 

[J_sarahd]

Praying for you. My outcome was not good and my mare is now living out in the field with my other retired horse for the next year. Going to rescan her next spring and see if she can heal on her own , vet said it has been done and worth a shot, but if not then i dont know what to do. Mines only 6

Thank you. Oh no, fingers crossed she heals on her own. It’s awful, isn’t it?

Nova’s only 5 and I’ve told myself that this is the last Big Vet Thing I’m doing for her, simply because I refuse to keep throwing money, time and energy at her to get her to a specific place for my own enjoyment. Especially when the things we have uncovered (kissing spine and psd) are only going to get worse. I wish I had the land to just turn her away on and get myself an older horse I can just have fun on but that’s not to be, sadly.

 

[J_sarahd]

So we just went for a solo hack and I asked for our first trot and she was not very happy but managed to get a trot out of her eventually. Then we had a second trot and she just went straight into it. I walked her to turn the corner and then she was wanting to trot again when my leg went on.

 

[Timelyattraction]

So we just went for a solo hack and I asked for our first trot and she was not very happy but managed to get a trot out of her eventually. Then we had a second trot and she just went straight into it. I walked her to turn the corner and then she was wanting to trot again when my leg went on.

Sounds like she might just be anticipating it hurting so fingers crossed thats it. I suppose you will just have to keep going and see if she gets happier xx