Skhosu
Well-Known Member
Sl as far as I can see the reccomendation seems to be 3months box rest, what is the prognosis for these if they are turned away in a field?
Suspensory ligament
- Thread starter Skhosu
- Start date
dieseldog
Well-Known Member
When you say Suspensory Ligament what do you mean? Is it on the front or back? High Suspensory?
star
Well-Known Member
depends on where and how bad the injury is. like DieselDog says - is it a front or back leg, which part of the suspensory (proximal, body or branch), how bad is the damage, how lame is the horse?
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
Well, it s a6yr old who was vetted and failed on lame on the back leg. Now, I can never spot back leg lameness (I wasn't there, only home now) but I think his right hip is coming higher in trot, he is supposed to be lame on the left leg.
It is just below his hock, hasn't been nerve blocked/scanned as he wasn't great for the vet w/ back legs.
He isn't very lame at all, pretty much only a vet would see it type thing. He's had two weeks box rest (I've been away, was horrified to come home to discover sister had 'let him out to relax' in thesand paddock and as she put it hislefs were above the fences. SO probably not any better from the rest.) and isgoing back on tuesday. Problem is we can't really do 3 months box rest, it isn't possible but we do have the facilities to turn him away for 6months or longer. It's a back leg.
It is just below his hock, hasn't been nerve blocked/scanned as he wasn't great for the vet w/ back legs.
He isn't very lame at all, pretty much only a vet would see it type thing. He's had two weeks box rest (I've been away, was horrified to come home to discover sister had 'let him out to relax' in thesand paddock and as she put it hislefs were above the fences. SO probably not any better from the rest.) and isgoing back on tuesday. Problem is we can't really do 3 months box rest, it isn't possible but we do have the facilities to turn him away for 6months or longer. It's a back leg.
measles
Well-Known Member
I'd be interested to know too - one of ours scanned on Friday and has very slight loss of clarity of medial branch (no "real" damage or black holes, thank god!). Have been recommended 3 months box rest (which we can do as she prefers being in!) but also wondered about prognosis.
blueberry
Well-Known Member
Hi, we have a pony with a ligament problem in his lower hind at the moment. He has had in total 5 months box rest with no improvement.
His lameness initially was subtle, so subtle that he looked like he was backing off at first and then at trot on hard ground it was noticable.
He has just undergone an operation this week on his ligament and we are looking at 6 months walking out in hand. The vet says he has a 60/70% chance of a full recovery into normal and regualr work. At the worst he may just be a hack for someone-with painrelief.
So really at the moment we are not sure how it will go but we have to be hopeful-fingers crossed!
His lameness initially was subtle, so subtle that he looked like he was backing off at first and then at trot on hard ground it was noticable.
He has just undergone an operation this week on his ligament and we are looking at 6 months walking out in hand. The vet says he has a 60/70% chance of a full recovery into normal and regualr work. At the worst he may just be a hack for someone-with painrelief.
So really at the moment we are not sure how it will go but we have to be hopeful-fingers crossed!
measles
Well-Known Member
Fingers crossed Blueberry that he recovers fully. That is frightening - I had felt quite positive after our scan on Friday. Can I ask how much damage he had when he was initially scanned?
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
That's worrying blueberry as it's exactly the symptoms our boy would present. He has always been a reluctant canterer, but passed a 5-stage vet when we bought him and was improving so we had put it down to being green. He has done a few ODE's and not had any issues but never really galloped?
Typical it would be the uninsured one, poor lad he's very sweet but not happy being box rested. Cross your fingers for us please.
Canthese behidden by bute/drugs btw? As the guy we bought him off wasn't all that straight..
Typical it would be the uninsured one, poor lad he's very sweet but not happy being box rested. Cross your fingers for us please.
Canthese behidden by bute/drugs btw? As the guy we bought him off wasn't all that straight..
blueberry
Well-Known Member
There was some thickness which would indicate reasonable damage, but he did seem to improve over a period of time. The vet did say that we should 'test it' a little after the pony was showing some physical improvement. He was sound at that point after his box rest so we were to turn him out in the menage for a few mins each day and then the field for a few hours.
He then developed laminitis but i was convinced he was still unsound at the back. It was mainly noticable in the menage though.
Once his laminitis had improved he went back in again for a scan and it showed that the ligament was thicker and worsened so it was at that point we decided on the op.
We didnt get him vetted as we knew the people we bought him from, very local.
I think it is very probable that a lameness can be disguised with painkillers but very hard to prove.
Thanks for the good luck wishes, all the best with yours also
He then developed laminitis but i was convinced he was still unsound at the back. It was mainly noticable in the menage though.
Once his laminitis had improved he went back in again for a scan and it showed that the ligament was thicker and worsened so it was at that point we decided on the op.
We didnt get him vetted as we knew the people we bought him from, very local.
I think it is very probable that a lameness can be disguised with painkillers but very hard to prove.
Thanks for the good luck wishes, all the best with yours also
star
Well-Known Member
i get the feeling you guys are all talking about different ligaments and they carry very different prognoses - you really can't compare between ligaments or even between different parts of the suspensory ligament. branch injuries carry the worst prognosis, proximal injuries probably next and mild body injuries would be the best type.
blueberry - it sounds to me more like you're talking about the annular ligament round the back of the fetlock if you've had an op done on it. if this is the case it's a completely different scenario compared to suspensory injuries - my horse has had both unfortunately - sound for 4yrs after the suspensory, 18months after the annular ligament injury and now a year after the op he's still lame.
you really just have to listen to the vet - if they say 3 months box rest then that will give you a better result than 3 months paddock rest unless you can make a very small pen for them and they are completely sane and wont ever run around (not many horses around like that!).
you need a specfic diagnosis before you can talk about treatment and prognosis though. my horse has to be doped for nerve blocks but we still managed to get a diagnosis on him both times. i dont understand how the vet has said it's just below the hock without nerve blocks and scans?
blueberry - it sounds to me more like you're talking about the annular ligament round the back of the fetlock if you've had an op done on it. if this is the case it's a completely different scenario compared to suspensory injuries - my horse has had both unfortunately - sound for 4yrs after the suspensory, 18months after the annular ligament injury and now a year after the op he's still lame.
you really just have to listen to the vet - if they say 3 months box rest then that will give you a better result than 3 months paddock rest unless you can make a very small pen for them and they are completely sane and wont ever run around (not many horses around like that!).
you need a specfic diagnosis before you can talk about treatment and prognosis though. my horse has to be doped for nerve blocks but we still managed to get a diagnosis on him both times. i dont understand how the vet has said it's just below the hock without nerve blocks and scans?
kizzywiz
Well-Known Member
Blueberry, if it's any help, my welsh sec c has done ALL 4 of her annular ligaments, one after the other, the left hind went first & came right after loads of physio (laser) & box rest, she had about 6 months off. Then, can't remember in which order, did the right fore, which was operated on, & right hind & left fore were operated on together. I followed all the vets instructions to the letter, it was all a nightmare, loads of box rest, walking in hand etc etc, however, so worth it. She's 100% sound & competing up to medium level dressage. I haven't jumped her much since all this, as I want to preserve her as long as possible, & she loves her dressage & I have another pony to jump. No one knows why she developed this problem, apparently it's very unusual to do them all the surgeon reckoned it was probably conformational, & the front ones could be linked to her high knee action, she does bang those feet down!! Hope that's encouraging, but you really must follow what the vet says.
star
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Blueberry, if it's any help, my welsh sec c has done ALL 4 of her annular ligaments, one after the other, the left hind went first & came right after loads of physio (laser) & box rest, she had about 6 months off. Then, can't remember in which order, did the right fore, which was operated on, & right hind & left fore were operated on together. I followed all the vets instructions to the letter, it was all a nightmare, loads of box rest, walking in hand etc etc, however, so worth it. She's 100% sound & competing up to medium level dressage. I haven't jumped her much since all this, as I want to preserve her as long as possible, & she loves her dressage & I have another pony to jump. No one knows why she developed this problem, apparently it's very unusual to do them all the surgeon reckoned it was probably conformational, & the front ones could be linked to her high knee action, she does bang those feet down!! Hope that's encouraging, but you really must follow what the vet says.
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, i think most of them do do well after surgery. my horse came sound after surgery and i followed the post-op instructions to the letter, got him back hacking again and up to canter work, but he went lame again in the field - must have trod on a rut or something. my surgeon said i was extremely unlucky as 80% come sound after surgery and he didn't know of any where they had gone lame again if they'd come sound. He was working Medium, jumping 3ft SJing beforehand. I blame his hindlimb conformation - he's a bit straight through the hock and this makes them prone to PSD which he had back in 2002 and I'm blaming it for this problem too. Maybe he didn't make such a good recovery because he was already 20. Anyway, he's now had another 7months off since the recurrence of the lameness and he's only extremely mildly lame now (not even 1/10) but i'm not risking bringing him back to work due to his age and the risk of making things worse.
Blueberry, if it's any help, my welsh sec c has done ALL 4 of her annular ligaments, one after the other, the left hind went first & came right after loads of physio (laser) & box rest, she had about 6 months off. Then, can't remember in which order, did the right fore, which was operated on, & right hind & left fore were operated on together. I followed all the vets instructions to the letter, it was all a nightmare, loads of box rest, walking in hand etc etc, however, so worth it. She's 100% sound & competing up to medium level dressage. I haven't jumped her much since all this, as I want to preserve her as long as possible, & she loves her dressage & I have another pony to jump. No one knows why she developed this problem, apparently it's very unusual to do them all the surgeon reckoned it was probably conformational, & the front ones could be linked to her high knee action, she does bang those feet down!! Hope that's encouraging, but you really must follow what the vet says.
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, i think most of them do do well after surgery. my horse came sound after surgery and i followed the post-op instructions to the letter, got him back hacking again and up to canter work, but he went lame again in the field - must have trod on a rut or something. my surgeon said i was extremely unlucky as 80% come sound after surgery and he didn't know of any where they had gone lame again if they'd come sound. He was working Medium, jumping 3ft SJing beforehand. I blame his hindlimb conformation - he's a bit straight through the hock and this makes them prone to PSD which he had back in 2002 and I'm blaming it for this problem too. Maybe he didn't make such a good recovery because he was already 20. Anyway, he's now had another 7months off since the recurrence of the lameness and he's only extremely mildly lame now (not even 1/10) but i'm not risking bringing him back to work due to his age and the risk of making things worse.
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
the vet hasn't said (I haven't been present at vets) but that is the area they seem concerned about according to dad, as having some swelling, but not a lot of heat. I am purely trying to gauge what is likely to happen/what questions need asked.
The vet is planning to nerve block this time if he's still not right.
In terms of say instead of 3 months box rest he was turned away with a quiet companion for say 5-6months, is it the sort ofinjury that this is possible or is it likely it will HAVE to be box rest?
Thanks for all the thoughts, doing worst case scenario here, maybe if we're really lucky he'll be 100% sound?
I'm sure they will manage to diagnose, and I've said to mum to try and get a firm diagnosis, but with the difficult ones they prefer to see if it will get better before sticking needles in etc.
I think he may have tried to kick the vet during flexion tests hence the caution.
Do you think the vet would mind if I rang with any specific q's mum forgets after (I'm at uni so can't be there and mum has been thrown in the deep end!)
The vet is planning to nerve block this time if he's still not right.
In terms of say instead of 3 months box rest he was turned away with a quiet companion for say 5-6months, is it the sort ofinjury that this is possible or is it likely it will HAVE to be box rest?
Thanks for all the thoughts, doing worst case scenario here, maybe if we're really lucky he'll be 100% sound?
I'm sure they will manage to diagnose, and I've said to mum to try and get a firm diagnosis, but with the difficult ones they prefer to see if it will get better before sticking needles in etc.
I think he may have tried to kick the vet during flexion tests hence the caution.
Do you think the vet would mind if I rang with any specific q's mum forgets after (I'm at uni so can't be there and mum has been thrown in the deep end!)
dieseldog
Well-Known Member
You need to have the nerve blocks and then if they work get him scanned. I think my horse had had PSD for years with no one realising - the real clue is that she went from winning 1.30s down to 1.10s. She was only very very slightly lame and I never saw it. She sat in a field for 6 months and it made no difference what so ever.
From doing some research if it is PSD it doesn't heal by itself. I was speaking to a vet that specialises in this stuff and he thinks it is because it is very painful for them (although they aren't that lame) when it is trying to heal and they don't use their legs properly and therefore it can't heal properly. That was his opinion anyway.
Get the scans done and see what the diagonises is. You can plan from there. Vet won't mind at all if you talk to him.
From doing some research if it is PSD it doesn't heal by itself. I was speaking to a vet that specialises in this stuff and he thinks it is because it is very painful for them (although they aren't that lame) when it is trying to heal and they don't use their legs properly and therefore it can't heal properly. That was his opinion anyway.
Get the scans done and see what the diagonises is. You can plan from there. Vet won't mind at all if you talk to him.
star
Well-Known Member
PSD normally has to be pretty bad to cause visible swelling, but if there is swelling in that area, then PSD is the most likely diagnosis and it doesn't get better by itself, be it box rest or paddock rest - as soon as you brign them back into work they go lame again. it needs treating either with shockwave, box rest and in-hand walking or with surgery. my horse had PSD and shockwave treatment, box rest and in-hand walking for 2 months, tiny paddock and ridden walking for a month, then full turnout and back into full work over following 3 months. he wasn['t actually meant to be turned out until back in canter work but he was doing himself more harm in the stable. i'm sure the vet wont mind if you ring up and ask for details yourself - just explain you're away at uni.
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
That's promising, thank you though.
This will be a nightmare, maybe he'll be fine and he can go on his merry way....
thanks guys, a big help as always!
This will be a nightmare, maybe he'll be fine and he can go on his merry way....
thanks guys, a big help as always!
Est
New User
Star, that's really unlucky
Good for you putting him first and retiring him.
My mare's been diagnosed with PSD. We've done the box rest and shockwave therapy, and she seemed sound for about 2 weeks afterwards on the vet's return-to-work programme. Then she went lame again, so now she's on paddock rest (vet says it doesn't matter at this stage) and waiting for an op (lateral plantar neurectomy and fasciotomy - phew!!) which may or may not help. The vey says there's a 60-65% success rate which doesn't seem too great to me
Sounds like we need a ligament support group round here
My mare's been diagnosed with PSD. We've done the box rest and shockwave therapy, and she seemed sound for about 2 weeks afterwards on the vet's return-to-work programme. Then she went lame again, so now she's on paddock rest (vet says it doesn't matter at this stage) and waiting for an op (lateral plantar neurectomy and fasciotomy - phew!!) which may or may not help. The vey says there's a 60-65% success rate which doesn't seem too great to me
Sounds like we need a ligament support group round here
star
Well-Known Member
i've heard vets quote up to 90% soundness after the op, but i would say 65% sounds more realistic and more in tune with the results I've seen.
I've had so much blinking ligament trouble with one horse i reckon i could write a book on the subject - really hoping my next one can have stronger ligaments as dont really want to go through it all again.
I've had so much blinking ligament trouble with one horse i reckon i could write a book on the subject - really hoping my next one can have stronger ligaments as dont really want to go through it all again.