Sycamore Everywhere!!

[Ample Prosecco]

Urgh feeling stressed. The foals and their nanny are meant to be moving on Friday. The owner of the other foal went to check fencing etc this weekend and there are sycamore seedlings EVERYWHERE. There is only 1 tree which is fenced off, but the drought meant more seedlings developed than usual and then winds blew them everywhere. We don;t own the land they are on now and need to move them. But the space they were going to is several acres and sycamore seedlings are all over all of it. Peak Park won't let us spray (we are in the Peak District).

Any ideas? I want them running free, with natural shelter and at least 3 acres really. Another friend has found nowhere suitable for her foal, and she's been looking for months. So hers is still with her mum and has no playmates. Don't know what to do!

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Sycamores have been a nightmare over the last 12 months especially with the drought last summer and I am in exactly the same position on my track and have decided the area is small enough for me to mow and collect the cuttings in the grass box. Another effective way is by putting sheep on the land if you can borrow some.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Thank-you. I could not get a mower down there. The horses have to walk along a track for about 1/2 a mile to access a gate then they are in a valley with a stream running down the middle. They can walk across but a mower couldn't. Even if I could trundle it down the track. Not even sure about sheep. I think I'm going to send samples off for toxicity testing and hope the results come back low

 

[ycbm]

Peak Park won't let us spray (we are in the Peak District).

I had no restrictions on what I could spray in the Peak Park other than those that apply everywhere. It's the land management schemes you're enrolled in and taking payment from that prevent spraying, I think. Are you sure the land can't be sprayed? Would it be possible to spot spray with a knapsack sprayer?
.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Yes they have been very clear that the land we rent is not to be sprayed, to protect plant species and insects. Which is good, of course, but doesn’t help us right now!

 

[HelenBack]

Does anybody know if spraying is effective for the seedlings? I moved to a new place a few months ago and am in a similar situation with seedlings coming up everywhere just now. It's probably less than half the field overall so I've fenced off the worst of it and am pulling up what I can by hand but will never get all of it.

The yard owner is having the field sprayed for buttercups soon so I'm wondering if that will get rid of the seedlings too?

Seems it's a nightmare for a lot of owners this spring.

 

[Maxidoodle]

Does anybody know if spraying is effective for the seedlings? I moved to a new place a few months ago and am in a similar situation with seedlings coming up everywhere just now. It's probably less than half the field overall so I've fenced off the worst of it and am pulling up what I can by hand but will never get all of it.

The yard owner is having the field sprayed for buttercups soon so I'm wondering if that will get rid of the seedlings too?

Seems it's a nightmare for a lot of owners this spring.

I had actually saved this page in my favourites for info recently, as we’ve had more seeds appear than ever, hopefully it helps people: https://www.agrigem.co.uk/agronomist/article/how-to-treat-sycamore-seedlings-in-a-paddock

 

[HelenBack]

I had actually saved this page in my favourites for info recently, as we’ve had more seeds appear than ever, hopefully it helps people: https://www.agrigem.co.uk/agronomist/article/how-to-treat-sycamore-seedlings-in-a-paddock

Thanks, that's really helpful and clear. My yard owner has said she'll ask the farmer who is doing the spraying whether whatever he uses will also kill the seedlings but I'll print off that information and give it to her and hopefully she'll show the farmer. I think it's gone beyond the point of me being able to rake the seeds now but it does look hopeful from what she's said about the spraying (she wants general weeds doing as well as buttercups) like there'll be overlap so hopefully it will target the seedlings too. The trees aren't on her land but she's chopped back overhanging branches so hopefully it won't be as bad this autumn and I can be on it as soon as the seeds start to come down. Just need to get through this immediate problem first though.

 

[SEL]

Mowing with a collection box seems to be the only other option people are discussing where they can't spray.

 

[Green Bean]

Can you not hustle up a crowd of friends, colleagues, passersby, interested groups etc with the promise of bacon or vegan butties and set them loose in designated areas to hand remove the saplings? If you set them loose in a straight line moving through the field it should prove very effective. You could also add competition to it and say those with the most collected saplings with roots receives a prize!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Can you not hustle up a crowd of friends, colleagues, passersby, interested groups etc with the promise of bacon or vegan butties and set them loose in designated areas to hand remove the saplings? If you set them loose in a straight line moving through the field it should prove very effective. You could also add competition to it and say those with the most collected saplings with roots receives a prize!

Love this plan! I will try!!

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I went over to my track while walking the hounds this morning and it’s worse than I thought because I can see the seedlings in the centre as well now. I was so careful last year collecting them when they fell but it’s impossible to get them all up. Guess I’m going to be doing more hand picking and mowing than I envisaged over Easter. They cannot go out on it as it is so I will look at spraying as well but not sure if the farmer will allow it.

 

[hellfire]

I feel your pain as have had the worst year of them ever.
Apparently spraying them with envy does kill them BUT the toxin remains in dead leaves so I read. For up to 6 months.
So after spraying all mine with envy I now still feel the need to pick them all up. I’d of thought they’d rot away to nothing well before 6 months but saying that there’s still sycamore leaves laying about from last autumn.
There’s more come up even after spraying. It’s why spraying isn’t recommended until the end of April.
Sadly that doesn’t help your situation much.

 

[ycbm]

Love this plan! I will try!!

I'll do anything for a bacon butty.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I'll do anything for a bacon butty.

We have extended our lease where we are. Phew. They were meant to be moving on Friday. Our vet has said 'no, no, no!' He's never known a year like it for sycamore poisoning. And he's been in practive for 30+ years. So I think we may have to re-think the valley plan. It;s a huge area. Which was great for free range youngsters with their guardians but a nightmare to clear!

 

[HappyHollyDays]

That really good news Amber. Although my two have grazed my little acre for a few years I’m really twitchy about putting them on it this year with the levels of toxicity in the leaves and seedlings. It’s impossible to test consistently with 7 trees and costs a fortune.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I am going to have such a difficult year with grazing. My top field is riddled with them.

 

[ycbm]

I'll do anything for a bacon butty.

Offer withdrawn, huh?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Offer withdrawn, huh?

Not so quick! We were moving them on Friday but that timescale is not realistic. We still hope to give them their valley idyll in the summmer....

 

[SEL]

We have extended our lease where we are. Phew. They were meant to be moving on Friday. Our vet has said 'no, no, no!' He's never known a year like it for sycamore poisoning. And he's been in practive for 30+ years. So I think we may have to re-think the valley plan. It;s a huge area. Which was great for free range youngsters with their guardians but a nightmare to clear!

They're everywhere this year. I rather forcibly yanked the Appy up from grazing on a verge this morning when I realised what was poking up amongst the grass.

 

[MereChristmas]

Can you not hustle up a crowd of friends, colleagues, passersby, interested groups etc with the promise of bacon or vegan butties and set them loose in designated areas to hand remove the saplings? If you set them loose in a straight line moving through the field it should prove very effective. You could also add competition to it and say those with the most collected saplings with roots receives a prize!

i have done this alone for years at home but only on a patch big enough to park a dozen cars.

It works BUT
you have to do it every day as the helicopters don’t all germinate at once.
It kills your back. I had difficulty standing upright afterwards

We found the best way was to use a lawn mower and pick up the grass cuttings but that doesn’t work in so many situations

 

[MereChristmas]

Today I turned F out after riding and noticed the seedlings. There weren’t any on Monday.
When I got back to the yard the YO said
You’d better bring F back in. I’ve just seen the sycamore seedlings.
I got him back in to his stable.
I left as YO was working out a new grazing system and asking landlord if there were sheep available and if grazing them would help.
Last year there no seedlings at all
On Friday when I return the horses will be in different fields

 

[HelenBack]

I just found this which might be of interest:

Atypical myopathy-associated hypoglycin A toxin remains in sycamore seedlings despite mowing, herbicidal spraying or storage in hay and silage - PubMed (nih.gov)

Basically suggesting that neither mowing nor spraying is effective and the best option might be mowing followed by collection of the seedlings.

I did read another study that suggested that a lot of the seedlings either die back by summer or the toxicity in them decreases as they grow bigger. So for those of us who can't mow I guess the best option is to pull up what we can by hand and fence off badly affected areas in the hope that by summer they're useable again.

 

[TheMule]

A lot of field maples are incorrectly identified as sycamores. Worth checking, they're in plentiful supply this year too!

 

[HelenBack]

A lot of field maples are incorrectly identified as sycamores. Worth checking, they're in plentiful supply this year too!

Is there a way to tell the difference from the seeds and seedlings do you know? As the trees are not in leaf yet.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

A lot of field maples are incorrectly identified as sycamores. Worth checking, they're in plentiful supply this year too!

Yes, a newish friend popped into my yard this afternoon and followed me while I was poo picking, she was aghast at the sycamore seedlings in 1 paddock. I took her over to the tree line and showed her the big field maple. She wouldn't agree tho.....

 

[TheMule]

Is there a way to tell the difference from the seeds and seedlings do you know? As the trees are not in leaf yet.

I don’t think so, unfortunately.
I know my tree is a field maple so I’m not panicking, despite the appearance of lots of tiny baby trees! Also, lots of tree seedling look pretty alike in the early stages

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Is there a way to tell the difference from the seeds and seedlings do you know? As the trees are not in leaf yet.

I don't know about the seedlings identification, but like mule, I know mine is a Field Maple as I've had the yard for zillions of yrs. My seedlings are all under that tree.
To identify the tree, check the bark and branches. The bark on the sycamore looks very different and regularly peels.

There were 2 huge sycamore trees in a further up hedge line but both were taken out by next door YO when she moved in, as she was paranoid about them. Both were pretty big in the 70s, but in 2015 cost her 500 apiece to get removed. I still occasionally find a sapling growing in the hedge line even now, but deal with them immediately.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

@Ambers Echo I’ve had a better week so thought I’d share re your future valley plans.

My seedlings seem to be dying of their own accord and I’ve removed most of them from a two acre block furthest away from the tree by hand. It is back breaking work but actually only took three days.

Our plan is to give another week or two to be sure that everything has germinated, paddock vacuum, and then to let them on the sycamore free part.

We will either let sheep graze the other side or flail and paddock vacuum.

 

[winnie]

Just thought I'd add this as I just had my results back from testing seedlings and they are extremely high! Thank goodness I fenced the area off in time.The seedlings seem to have died off now but I can't let any horses onto that area. In past years I have grazed the area with no ill effects. I wonder whether the drought has caused a higher than usual toxicity?