Tack Check Please!

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poiuytrewq

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Hi Can people comment/recommend advise on one of my horses tack please.
I am willing to change anything and have outlined why he's wearing what he is.

He wears a Bridle with a flash noseband- This is because he kept managing to get his tongue over the bit and was very very busy with his mouth all the time, but mainly the tongue over the bit problem.

Bit- A hanging cheek snaffle with a lozenge- Hanging cheek was a bit of a compromise, My daughter finds him strong and wanted a little more control. I didn't want to go down the gag/ really severe route. He always had a single jointed snaffle and although he seemed reasonably ok with it I prefer double jointed bits as not nutcracker action particularly with a flash.
Ive not tried the hanging cheek without the flash?

He also wears a 3 point breast plate with Martingale attachment- He has a fairly high head carriage so I was recommended to use a Martingale also I have heard it can absorb some of the movement with not so soft hands (daughter was only 9 when she started riding him) The breast plate part is 1.I had one spare that fitted and would have had to buy a martingale! and 2. I figured it gave a good solid neck strap is needed.

Ive started riding him more recently as he's become far too much for my daughter and is desperately in need of schooling/flat work which isn't either of us's strong points tbh but cant afford instructors really so needs must!
Id love any suggestions as to what I have wrong or right or how I can maybe improve on this?
I was wondering about complete basics- ie- get rid of the flash, bit and martingale in favour of cavasson, double jointed loose ring (tho' steering and brakes leave a lot to be desired so am not overly sure about this!!?) and a faithful old neck strap.
 
I'm no expert, but personally would lose the flash. Some horses brace against them trying to open their jaw which can create resistance and tension.

Is he happy in his current bit? Might be best off making one change at a time, although a full cheek can help with steering.

You also may need to ask why is he putting his tongue over the bit? Does he have quite a small mouth meaning when he has a bit in, there isn't much space for his tongue?

It does sound like a schooling problem though more than tack. Do you have any knowledgeable horsey friends who could perhaps schooling him in return for favours, rather than spending cash on lessons?
 
Yes he seems ok in it. When he used to get his tongue over it was in a single jointed snaffle Ive not tried him minus the flash so not sure why or if he still could- will give it a go!
I have friends who I can call on for the fine tuning but really at first im going to serious basics with him. Im thinking barely out of walk until the steering is corrected.
Just loads of walk/halt transitions and serpentines/circles etc.
 
I would loose the flash first and try that, might be worth getting teeth checked out, can I ask what breed he is?

I would try a straight bar if his getting the tongue over might be his tongue is quite big, and has a small shallow mouth,one of my horses hates any kind of jointed bit for this reason I ride him in a metal straight bar with a port bit like a pelham but has snaffle rings, think its called a magic snaffle.

I would also look at other reasons why his becoming a handfull, his feed is he getting too much heating food? Or has his turnout changed recently can all have an impact on behaviour.
I have a very hot mare In the school, I tend to keep it really quiet lots of circles in trot,leg yield and if she tries to canter without asking I go back to walk and try again, you could also try lunging before you ride get some energy out of him.
 
He's had his teeth, back, vet check, saddler no obvious problem he has all this done on a regular basis anyway. His passport states Welsh X but he looks Connemara X to me! We know the lady who used to own him and she said she wasn't really sure what to put as breeding unknown!

Everything else is pretty much the same- there was a period of little turnout but it didn't really make a difference to his behaviour.
He's not really been schooled as such ever as he was broken in fairly late I think (again age is slightly hazy but about 6 now) We spent the first however long hacking quietly just to show him the sights and accustomise him to traffic etc. Then from last summer up until now our field has really been pretty un-rideable so again its been limited to short hacks- He may well just be lacking in exercise over winter. I advertised for riders but no takers other than one lady who rode twice, he messed round and she never came back.
 
I'd ditch the flash, lots of horses fight them just because they don't like the restriction. If you are concerned about mouth opening, stick a drop noseband on, it does the same job, but only has any action if the horse opens its mouth beyond a normal level. I'd ditch the martingale, & either just leave breastplate as a neckstrap or stick a stirrup leather on as one. Bit wise, its hard to say because it sounds like a schooling issue more than a bitting one, however the bit does play a part. I think for now I'd use a copper roller, its a fairly neutral bit, & while I'm sure they do exist, I've yet to meet a horse who disliked one. Even if it isn't permanent, its neutral enough that at least when you have done more schooling, & experiment with other bits, you'll have a reference point for what the horse does/doesn't like.
Schooling wise unless very unfit I would include trot too, just do plenty of transistions. And lunging, which is a good chance to stick your daughter on & do work with no reins & stirrups. If an instructor is out of the question, then if you can get someone to film you so you can at least pick up on weak spots yourself afterwards. And no reason yourself & a friend of equal ability can't watch each other & spot errors. Might also be worth asking locally & at nearest pc if they know of a competent child or teen without one to ride at the moment who would ride it.
 
If he hasn't done much, I'd definitely lose the flash, and possibly the martingale too. Make sure his noseband is looser than you would normally have it, and take it from there.
You can get bits with tongue "spoons" or layers on them if they're a serial tongue over the bit horse, but that's when there isn't another solution usually. You may find that as he becomes more established, he will stop.

If there isn't much space for his tounge, then these sorts of bits could be an option (bit of googling and research from the bit suggested above)
http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=196&xSec=32
http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=411&xSec=32
 
Hello thank you all very much appreciated tbh I played him down a little perhaps, wishful thinking?!
There is not a hope in hell I could let any child on him the way he is. I let a v experienced friend have a try recently and he played up so much he fell on her. I've been riding him out this week and decided our area is not suitable as its so busy traffic wise I actually felt unsafe today. The friend he fell with (glutton for punishment!) has offered to take him over to her yard- quiet roads and a school for a while where she will work with him alongside me. My daughter is a good little rider but I have lost my trust in this pony right now and wouldn't let her on him even on the lunge. It's just not worth it. I've always been v confident with him but he's changed so much.
 
I think maybe taking up your friends offer of schooling him might be the answer, if his had short hacks he may just need some extra work and a bit of schooling to get him back on track, I dont blame you for not wanting to put your daughter on him for the moment you may find after a few weeks doing regular work he will settle down, good luck.
 
I do hope so. We love this pony a ridiculous amount which is perhaps in hindsight where things started to go wrong? He's such a sweet person that if he was a bit naughty we laughed at him rather than me getting on and "having a word" before it escalated to this level.
My daughter has totally lost her confidence with him which is such a shame as she's had so much fun on him at first and she's a tough little cookie so its taken a lot to get this far. I kept telling myself the bigger she got and the older he got the better the combo would become. We gave him bit of a break over the winter as we couldn't get the exercise into him but coming back into work he's been so much worse...
I was wrong and should have given her far more support- Easy to say now I guess. Very disappointed with myself :(
 
I would also say ditch the flash and try a drop.
My mare really set herself against a flash and would also carry her head high (and higher and higher if she was having a real strop), I tried her in a drop at a friends recommendation and she is a different pony, she is quiet in the mouth and her head carriage stabilised. She is more relaxed, not so tight in the neck, and so lowers her head down more now, enabling me to start really working on getting her working correctly.
 
There is the saying 'a well schooled horse is a well behaved horse' and it is so true! So much easier to teach them manners and control when you are in a safe area!

I know you say you can't afford an instructor but tbh by what you are saying i don't think you can afford not to have one!

Good luck, sounds like a move to your friends yard may help your situation.
 
Mahoganybay said:
There is the saying 'a well schooled horse is a well behaved horse' and it is so true! So much easier to teach them manners and control when you are in a safe area!

I know you say you can't afford an instructor but tbh by what you are saying i don't think you can afford not to have one!

Good luck, sounds like a move to your friends yard may help your situation.
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Very good saying yes- I am certainly hoping quiet roads and a school will help. Today I was far more concerned about cars passing etc than giving him the attention he needs.
I know an instructor would be ideal but we will have to try this route first. I did actually try a lovely instructor last summer but like I say my field became pretty un- rideable and things were put on hold until it dried up by which point he'd probably started his destruction? cant really remember the whole story exactly.... I need cash!
 
Do you know why he is getting his tongue over the bit? Is it too low in his mouth? does he have a fat tongue? Not much room in his mouth? a mullen-mouthed bit
He may prefer a mullen-mouthed bit. I have found PeeWee bit to be very good for fat-tongued horses and it helps with the steering issue.
I would certainly lose the flash and with a PeeWee you wouldn't need to hold the mouth shut. What does the horse think of the breast-plate? I had one who leaned into it and was much better without it.
I certainly think that an instructor/knowledgeable friend would be a good idea.
 
As others have said try a drop, and consider a thinner bit, or a bit with no joints. Flashes can't really be done up enough to successfully stop a horse evading the bit.

Mine is currently in a peewee which has stopped his chomping and general tongue gymnastics.
 
Just bought a drop noseband so will certainly try that.
Umm, I have no idea really why he gets his tongue over- Its fitted correctly Im confident in fitting tack etc and I did get the saddler to check everything.
I don't think he's worried by or leaning on the breastplate.
I have also paid a few recommended people to ride him but they don't come back (cant say I blame them tbh its quite un-nerving he seems to have little in the way of self preservation)
Is a Pee wee quite strong? I always thought they were quite vicious and don't want to over bit him.
 
My Sally would also regularly get her tongue over the bit along with the general fussiness in her head and mouth. She was a lot worse and incredibly tense in the jaw in the flash (her teeth were checked).
Also I have found that although she can be strong, the best bit seems to be a NS team up with the small rings. I tried her in various bits including single and double jointed snaffles, a hanging cheek and also a NS verbindend but the feeling a kept getting was that she didnt seem to like any pressure on her tongue, be it the top or the pressure on the sides of her tongue with the flash done up.
I dont know if that really is logical or whether it helps you any further but it certainly was the key for Sally.
She is now in the NS team up with drop and I will use a running martingale for hacking out or other occassions when it wouldnt be safe if she did get her head above the height of control ( if she were being stressy or tense)
 
patchwork puzzle said:
My Sally would also regularly get her tongue over the bit along with the general fussiness in her head and mouth. She was a lot worse and incredibly tense in the jaw in the flash (her teeth were checked).
Also I have found that although she can be strong, the best bit seems to be a NS team up with the small rings. I tried her in various bits including single and double jointed snaffles, a hanging cheek and also a NS verbindend but the feeling a kept getting was that she didnt seem to like any pressure on her tongue, be it the top or the pressure on the sides of her tongue with the flash done up.
I dont know if that really is logical or whether it helps you any further but it certainly was the key for Sally.
She is now in the NS team up with drop and I will use a running martingale for hacking out or other occassions when it wouldnt be safe if she did get her head above the height of control ( if she were being stressy or tense)
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PP - is Sally a Haff?

If she is, mine is the same with the nose pressure as well - grabbing hold of the noseband of the headcollar is enough to send mine into tizz!!

poiuytrewq - the pee wee is no less harsh than any other snaffle. the strap underneath can help keep the tongue under the bit, but I now ride without it. I think for mine, having the joints just distracts him and possibly winds him up. he was started in a loose ring french with a drop, and is now ridden at home in the pee wee and then I find a bridoon linked snaffle works best with a drop for pony parties.
 
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