Tack Fail. Photo. Who is at fault? Opinions ...

Norfolk Pie said:
Asa grown up, I'd be a bit embarrassed to have someone checking my girth, moving my leg forward and tightening it up a hole or two just before I went in the ring. :D I tell my PC kids once they are at C test level, no one should be doing their girth for them, they're quite old enough to dress themselves and their pony :rolleyes:
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This made me laugh. Im nearly 50 being doing my own tack for years but my instructor still yanks my leg forward and checks my girth everytime before we go in the school.
 
Mr Nick said:
This made me laugh. Im nearly 50 being doing my own tack for years but my instructor still yanks my leg forward and checks my girth everytime before we go in the school.
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>whisper< I actually have to stop myself doing this to some of my grown up riders :D
Perhaps I make my comment to my Pony Clubbers to remind me more than them :D >trundles of to self evaluate coaching skills<
 
Nugget La Poneh said:
When I was younger I thought it was cool that top-level riders could do up a girth on a jogging horse without looking down or falling off.

Hell, I admire people being about to do up a girth without auditioning for the Russian Cossacks every time the girth needs doing up while on board (long girth straps, short girth, fat pony) :D
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Haha! :D I discovered that I can do up a girth while pony is spinning and speedily trotting last summer, when my ride partner decided to continue on our way while I was still trying to eat a banana at a crew stop. Amazing what you can do when you have no choice! :)
 
Allover said:
You posted earlier that you would fire your groom if this happened to you. That, IMHO, is a plain ignorant attitude to have but unfotunately quite common in the horse world (wherever you may be).
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*sigh* over here it is the grooms job. If I hired a groom who knew that was part of their job to make sure the horse was ready to be ridden safely, and that this was part of their job description, but they didn't do it and thus jeopardised the safety of the person taking over from them, then yes I would definitely fire them. I would fire them for putting the rider in danger (doesn't even have to be a professional rider, could be a child who had come to ride the horse) but also because I would no longer be able to trust them to do anything else in their job description competently. If the groom can't do this part of the job, where else would s/he be cutting corners?

Out of interest; at riding schools in the UK, if a rider gets on a horse and it's girth isn't done up properly, who is to blame if the rider, while cantering along had their saddle slide back and fell off injuring themselves? The rider or the groom who tacked up the horse? Again over here it would be the groom at fault and the owner of the stables would most likely be the one sued, hence it would be in the riding stable owners interests to employ only competent grooms who know, and do, their jobs properly.
 
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Spring Feather said:
Out of interest; at riding schools in the UK, if a rider gets on a horse and it's girth isn't done up properly, who is to blame if the rider, while cantering along had their saddle slide back and fell off injuring themselves? The rider or the groom who tacked up the horse? Again over here it would be the groom at fault and the owner of the stables would most likely be the one sued, hence it would be in the riding stable owners interests to employ only competent grooms who know, and do, their jobs properly.
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IME It would be the instructor but then you are dealing with novices and learners not a professional rider so somewhat different.
 
Spring Feather said:
*sigh* over here it is the grooms job. If I hired a groom who knew that was part of their job to make sure the horse was ready to be ridden safely, and that this was part of their job description, but they didn't do it and thus jeopardised the safety of the person taking over from them, then yes I would definitely fire them. I would fire them for putting the rider in danger (doesn't even have to be a professional rider, could be a child who had come to ride the horse) but also because I would no longer be able to trust them to do anything else in their job description competently. If the groom can't do this part of the job, where else would s/he be cutting corners?

Out of interest; at riding schools in the UK, if a rider gets on a horse and it's girth isn't done up properly, who is to blame if the rider, while cantering along had their saddle slide back and fell off injuring themselves? The rider or the groom who tacked up the horse? Again over here it would be the groom at fault and the owner of the stables would most likely be the one sued, hence it would be in the riding stable owners interests to employ only competent grooms who know, and do, their jobs properly.
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Condescending as well as ignorant......you are on a roll:rolleyes:
 
Spring Feather said:
Out of interest; at riding schools in the UK, if a rider gets on a horse and it's girth isn't done up properly, who is to blame if the rider, while cantering along had their saddle slide back and fell off injuring themselves? The rider or the groom who tacked up the horse? Again over here it would be the groom at fault and the owner of the stables would most likely be the one sued, hence it would be in the riding stable owners interests to employ only competent grooms who know, and do, their jobs properly.
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Who would be at fault in the UK if a rider at a riding school fell off while cantering because their girth wasn't tight enough?

Depending on the level of the rider, either the rider themself, or the instructor. The groom may well be involved in tightening the girth sufficiently for a person to mount safely, but if they get to the point of cantering without a sufficiently tight girth, that would usually be the rider's fault, unless the rider was too novice or young, and then it'd be the instructor's job :)

There are many places where even in today's litigation culture, if you were stupid enough to be cantering with a loose girth, you would receive a b******ing for being so flipping stoopid ;)

I've done it once or twice, and done that sad, slow, inevitable slip around and off a horse - both stood and moving :o Wouldn't have dreamed of blaming anyone but myself :o
 
This has really got me thinking, and seething slightly. In the simplest terms, the groom is responsible for the safety and comfort of the horse before and after its round/test. Whilst they should present the horse ready to go to a degree, no rider in his right mind would not check the fundamentals, and no groom should be held responsible for a rider who is too thick to check that his girth is sufficiently tight.
I wouldn't tighten a girth right up when the rider isn't on board and the horse is waiting to go - and the first thing I'd do after it finishes is loosen the girth. If a rider threatened to sack me because I wasn't nannying him as well as the horse, I'd go with a smile on my face...
 
Auslander said:
This has really got me thinking, and seething slightly. In the simplest terms, the groom is responsible for the safety and comfort of the horse before and after its round/test. Whilst they should present the horse ready to go to a degree, no rider in his right mind would not check the fundamentals, and no groom should be held responsible for a rider who is too thick to check that his girth is sufficiently tight.
I wouldn't tighten a girth right up when the rider isn't on board and the horse is waiting to go - and the first thing I'd do after it finishes is loosen the girth. If a rider threatened to sack me because I wasn't nannying him as well as the horse, I'd go with a smile on my face...
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Quite frankly, I'd tell 'em b*llocks!

..probably why I'm not a groom! Couldn't stand it....but I do have friends who are grooms and love the job. :D
 
Spring Feather said:
Out of interest; at riding schools in the UK, if a rider gets on a horse and it's girth isn't done up properly, who is to blame if the rider, while cantering along had their saddle slide back and fell off injuring themselves? The rider or the groom who tacked up the horse? Again over here it would be the groom at fault and the owner of the stables would most likely be the one sued, hence it would be in the riding stable owners interests to employ only competent grooms who know, and do, their jobs properly.
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I have never ridden at a riding school where the rider is not responsible for tacking up her own horse. I know such places exists, but I find the thought weird! When I first learned to ride, in NA, we were taught to tack up right from the beginning, including checking girths. Also, I would never crank the horse's girth up to full tightness before mounting, but gradually tighten it over the course of the warm-up, and then re-check it before going into the ring. Thus, even if I were presented a tacked-up horse by a groom before a lesson, I would not expect the girth to be at optimum tightness.

If such a thing happened to a novice, I would hope that the instructor had periodically reminded the class to check their girths.

If such a thing happened to me in a lesson, my instructor would laugh at me (assuming I was ok).

As to competition, well, I'm not a pro, but if I were at a vet gate (for example), and had a crew that had saddled up for me, I would still check my tack as a matter of course. I'm the rider; the buck stops with me.
 
Oh **** confesion time. I saddled up a runner and the saddle slipped on the way to post (bloody elasticated girths) Garry Bardwell hanging on for dear life. Had to run out in front of the telivision cameras to readjust tack .Now I know why trainers wear those hats with wide brims .So no one can see your face!!!!!:eek:
 
spookypony said:
I have never ridden at a riding school where the rider is not responsible for tacking up her own horse. I know such places exists, but I find the thought weird! .
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Really? ive never been one who does allow total novices to put a saddle and bridle on a horse! :eek:

Fair enough people with some experience, but certainly not everyone! :confused:


Every school ive been to/ worked at - the RS staff do the tacking up, for the ponies welfare and client safety!

Would be like being told to sort your own parachute and rig out on your noob sky dives... ummm nasty idea! :eek:

sure you should know how it works, and would be helpful to be trained on it.. but still you are learning and a ponies welfare is at risk.


Anyway, back to the point. Imo... if not PS, its a combination of factors. Just like an airplane crash is usually a combination of several fatal errors - as is the case here.

Horses shape may have eluded to a breast plate being advantageous, tack may have failed, groom forgot one last check and the rider ultimately should have double checked that all would be well.
 
I'm sitting at my desk giggling :D:D

And I can't help myself - so sorry in advance if offend anyone.

Blame the servant !!! How very English :p

Anyone who gets on a horse without checking the girth .... refer to Darwin's theory.
 
Spring Feather said:
Out of interest; at riding schools in the UK, if a rider gets on a horse and it's girth isn't done up properly, who is to blame if the rider, while cantering along had their saddle slide back and fell off injuring themselves? The rider or the groom who tacked up the horse? Again over here it would be the groom at fault and the owner of the stables would most likely be the one sued, hence it would be in the riding stable owners interests to employ only competent grooms who know, and do, their jobs properly.
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I can't speak for every riding school but at the one which is also part of the livery yard I'm on the groom tacks up the horses and lead them to the school, the rider (if competent) does up girth and check stirrup length from last rider otherwise the instructor does it.
Once mounted the girth is checked by the instructor along with stirrup length again.
Lesson begins and after a warm up of walk and trot the girth is checked before a canter.
At the end of the lesson you either dismount and hand your horse to the next rider (horses used a max 2 hours a day) or you lead back to the stable where it's untacked.
 
I would say both are to blame...

But more so the rider. When I was a groom at a competition stable, we would saddle the horses up and leave the girths loose as they would somethimes be in the cross ties for up to 30 mins before they were ridden.
The rider would tighten the girth before jumping on, and double check the girth after warming up.

At shows, if someone else tacks my horse up for me I double check the girth before hopping on. IMO it's common sense. People need to take responsibility for their own actions, even at a riding school I would assume the girth would be checked by a competant person (either the rider, or a knowledgeable person taking responsibility for the OHS of the riders there).

If YOU fail to check your gear before riding a horse (and you are competant enough to know how to do it, as the rider in the picture should very well be) then YOU are responsible if everything goes to hell in a hand basket. Also.... I would not be jumping without a breast plate - for the very reason shown in the pic.
 
Not read all the replies, and I'm sure it's descended into the usual HHO hilarity, but two things - it depends on the arrangement between a professional rider and his/her groom as to who does the final check, and then to the sweat marks - on some smaller barrelled sport horse types saddles can move backwards. There is often no distinct girth groove and it is important to select the right girth straps, usually 2 and 4, to stop the saddle moving backwards, just like the point strap can stop a saddle moving forwards. The girth may well have originally been in the right place, hard to tell when the horse is stretching it's "bottom line" (as opposed to topline!) with it's head up.

I will add that it's amazing how many people watch me put a saddle on during an appointment, tighten the girth just once, then we walk over to the arena and they go to get on without checking their girth! Obviously you shouldn't tighten the girth that tight straight away anyway, and usually you can't!
 
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