Tacking up troubles

[Horsekaren]

My horse is being super Grumpy when I tack him up, today he took it to a new level and decided to bring his back leg forward and kick my hand as I reached for his girth ... this is a new move he hasn't done before, normally he will have a stamp if he is exceptionally grumpy but today he upped his game. When I put the saddle on and start to do up his girth he will always swish his tail, swing his neck and pull a face, sometimes with or without teeth.

He is normally ok with his bridle but depending on his mood he will sometimes spin away, which he did this morning, when he does this I just stick at his shoulder and follow for a lap or two and say good boy once he has stopped and is standing still for me.

He has had all the usual checks recently, back good, teeth good, saddle good ect

I truly believe this is him just being cheeky as when I took him out for the first time to another school he did no such thing and was perfect. I have tried being super firm and giving him a tap on the nose when he swings his head and a smack when he goes to stamp and swish but in all honesty it makes it worse. I have tried the softly softly approach by scratching his withers and telling him he is a good boy ect as I approach with the tack which is a better method but im not sure if by telling him he is good as he is swishing I am encouraging this behaviour.

Has anyone else been through this with their horse? and how did you over come it? I want to nip this behaviour in the bud as I don't want tacking up to be a stressful experience for him or me but im at a bit of a loose end as to what I can do now.

I usually tack up in the stable, he does the same if tied up outside.

 

[live2ride]

When you say you have had all the checks, were any done by a vet?

The behaviour you're describing is a bit like my mare acted when she first got ulcers, and had painfully tight muscles over her body, but she never escalated as far as kicking at me.. just the swinging of head and trying to bite. Telling me in as loud a way as possible, that she was hurting.

 

[Casey76]

Escalating behaviour when tacking up would indicate that he really isn't happy about something.

Does your girth pinch, or is the saddle too narrow, perhaps?

Alternatively, he may have some stomach issues.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Have you spoken to your vet about ulcers?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would ask the vet about ulcers.

 

[Antw23uk]

Our horses talk to us all the time .. your horse has started shouting at you. You are not listening Karen!

 

[Horsekaren]

I did wonder about ulcers before but when I had the back lady out to see him she applied pressure to specific points and said she really doesn't think he has ulcers and most horses with ulcers would respond, that coincided with our first outing in which he stood perfectly to be tacked up so I stopped thinking about ulcers. The saddler also agreed that he was just being grumpy but as this isn't getting any better im now wondering if there is something wrong.

Id say his grumpiness has increased ten times over in the last 2 months, before it would be the odd day I would get a face but since stabling at night I get a face every day, I thought it was the change in routine.

I know everything is expensive horse wise but is treating ulcers super expensive? do they need to be scoped before any treatment or do they try them on things like Gastro Guard before scoping.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

If your horse is insured, the insurance company should pay for the investigations, you will need to ask your vet about the cost.

 

[Horsekaren]

O god, I remember reading that exact phrase in a book. He did this before when his saddle caused him pain and I thought that's exactly what he was doing, screaming at me to help him. I suppose i've just been blind as all the checks were ok. I could kick myself right now!

Think I know what I need to do now!

Blimey this horse does like to put me through my paces! fingers crossed I will get to the bottom of it soon.

Our horses talk to us all the time .. your horse has started shouting at you. You are not listening Karen!

 

[CMcC]

Our horses talk to us all the time .. your horse has started shouting at you. You are not listening Karen!

Agree. I had similar with Finn, she will pull faces and threaten to bite (only a threat) when saddle goes on, girth tightened or front rug clips done out. All normal checks done, I found that the saddle and girth issues go if I stretch out her front legs first - I think she is tight through her shoulders. With the rug it is just about approaching her respectfully and slowly, I tend to rush and I think she gets a bit defensive.

do you have any idea what the problem might be, which part of the body, trust your intuition and investigate further.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Yes, M was like this. Turns out he had hind gut ulcers and was sore in the lumbar/SI region from bracing to minimise the pain. He's been significantly better since treatment. I'd be surprised if your horse's behaviour was just down to naughtiness, rather than a pain response.

Depending on what checks you've already done I'd be speaking to the vet about whether ulcers could be a possibility and maybe get a second opinion on the saddle too.

ETA - sorry had a call from my YO whilst typing this so didn't see your responses. Out vet/insurance were happy for us to do a week's trial on UG rather than scoping. He was like a different horse overnight so vet was happy to prescribe a full course, but I know others wouldn't be happy to treat without scoping so definitely worth asking. The UG is expensive, but the insurance covers it so hasn't been too bad. The physio treatment was the worst as he was having it weekly for a while, I could have probably claimed a few of them but haven't bothered.

 

[ihatework]

You have recently had someone on him and put a bit of pressure on him to get him working. Then you see an escalation of bad behaviour tacking up. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility this is related.
What I’m not saying is your pro rider necessarily did anything wrong, but if your horse is harbouring an ‘ouch’, she may well have just niggled it further (unintentionally).

You have posted about a variety of behaviour both in hand and under saddle. It would probably be worth a Vets MOT

 

[GirlFriday]

It would probably be worth a Vets MOT

Agree. A back lady is not remotely qualified to diagnose (lack of) ulcers and it is unprofessional of her to do so.

 

[Ellietotz]

I agree with getting the horse scoped too. I wish I had done it sooner for mine but it is what it is now.
My mare's saddle and back was all fine but she was very girthy, hated her belly and chest being touched etc and was just generally unhappy overall. Turned out that she had grade 2 and 3 ulcers.
If yours doesn't have ulcers then at least you have ruled it out. It's not an amazing experience for them for 12 hours with no food and a camera down the shnoz but it will give you the answer. Plus they soon forgive you when they've eaten again!

Good luck.

 

[WelshD]

given the other things you've said I would also get the horse scoped

Having said that I have a pony that gets really angry with being girthed up if he has been freshly clipped - never does it otherwise

 

[Pippity]

Going by my experience with my share horse, it sounds like either ulcers or an uncomfortable saddle. (With my share horse, it was both.)

 

[GTRJazz]

My horse used to play up in the winter when I girthed up it was just because it was an all leather type and when the weather was very cold he did not like the feel of it.
I run the car and pop it by the heater for a little while now.

My old loan horse bit me on the arm when I held him for someone else to get on and still have the scar that, was ulcers.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Oh, FGS get the vet out and have the horse examined properly! Regardless of what you may think to the contrary, your back lady really doesn't have magical hands that allow her to see inside his digestive system and/or perform x-ray/MRI type tests of his back and legs. HTH.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would think it's either a saddle problem or ulcers, it's sometimes a good idea to get a different recommended fitter if you have had it checked recently they could be missing something, if the horse is still showing a pain response when tacked up, as it is a pain response not just being cheeky I would get a vet out and get him scoped.

 

[turnbuckle]

Once a vet has ruled out ulcers (or something else), where the wise betting seems to be, it may just be that he's being cheeky. IF that's it, honey on the bit may work wonders!

 

[splashgirl45]

i would also say the vet is your first call, not the last resort. the back lady may be good at her job but she is not a vet and cannot tell if a horse has ulcers ....you need to listen to your horse and first of all rule out any pain before getting tough with him...

 

[Horsekaren]

Vet will be paying a visit this week.
I know the back lady isn't a vet but she talked me though all of the pressure points which horses with ulcers are likely to react to, there is a lot on you tube about these points (I know have to be sceptical of it all but quiet interesting) But anyhoo this was months ago and he wasn't the same then as he is now.

Hoping to get to the bottom of Mr Grumpy pants soon a I hate seeing him so down even simple things like picking his feet he is making difficult and he is normally super!

I'm hoping its not Ulcers but I am preparing for this tbh kind of all make sense... apart from the fact he shouldn't be really prone to them as he has tonnes of turnout, adlib hay, fast fibre only feed and minimal treats... saying that he is a sensitive soul so changes to winter routine may have triggered something.

For people that have had horses with Ulcers are they relatively easy to treat? does the horse need to be taken out of work or box rested at all? is recovery long? i know each horse is different but would be interesting to hear peoples experiences after treatment are there any gut balancers ect that people have found helped?

Thanks all!