Tail Docking Ban

Mr vet man is wrong. It is illegal for cosmetic reasons.. working dogs can still be docked.. springers, sheep dogs, boxers.. but as most dogs dont work now.. they shouldnt be bloody docked..

Personally.. as a quiery.. would you cut your childs ears off to make them look pretty?
I wouldnt.. and I wouldnt cut my dogs tail either.

Lou x
 
It is legal to dock dogs if they are to be used for working purposes, and you as the breeder can supply evidence that they will be working dogs (e.g. for a gundog, supply a shotgun certificate to show that they will be used for shooting)

Some vets will not dock ANY dogs, regardless of whether they are going to be working dogs or not

But then some vets wont remove dew claws either.... say no more....:p
 
Mr Vet Man at Crufts WAS wrong. Docking is not illegal provided it is done on Working dogs, they have top be done by a Vet, microchipped and have a certificate to say they were done by a Vet. They also cannot be advertised as Pets. It is NOT a loophole.

Mr Vet Man at Crufts was a PC Prat employed by Channel 4 to make them look good, same as the rubbish Claire Balding was spouting about GSDs.
 
You cannot show a docked dog unless it is a working dog or was docked pre the ban.
I believe it is illegal unless it is proved that the puppies are working strain and are going on to work?

However the lists of applicants in the Kennel Gazette to have their docked dogs approved by the KC for showing is hilarious. A working Kerry Blue Terrier? Also tonnes of boxers getting injured and having to have their tails removed, ho hum......
 
Meh I don't have an opinion either way. JAck was docked....he was born with half a tail as were a couple in his littler, the rest were born without tails. I'd rather see a docked working dog than one in pain with a broken tail.
 
Nailed said:
Personally.. as a quiery.. would you cut your childs ears off to make them look pretty?
I wouldnt.. and I wouldnt cut my dogs tail either.

Lou x
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Not the same thing, puppies tails are not the same as little children's ear, toes, fingers or any other appendage you wish to compare them to.
They are also not docked to make them look pretty, the damage a undocked tail can have inflicted on it whilst working through cover is not nice for the dog.
A LOT of dogs do still work, hundreds of Spaniels alone work at shoots up and down the country.
 
kirstyhen said:
Mr Vet Man at Crufts was a PC Prat employed by Channel 4 to make them look good, same as the rubbish Claire Balding was spouting about GSDs.
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Indeed. These comments have really upset the breeder of this dog who worked very hard off her own bat to ensure he had all his health tests and working qualifications carried out. She is just devastated, apparently, I hope Clare Balding and the Crufts panel of 'experts' are happy.

This vet also made comments about the GSD's hips - er, he has a-fast normal hips, but I don't suppose the vet actually knows what that means and he obviously has x-ray eyes.

If vets and the KC were concerned about the health of this dog, or any dog, why was he allowed to enter? Oh yeah, because they accepted money for the entry and do not see (in this case, non existant) health problems as an impediment to accepting money and handing out rosettes.

Will the KC also say they are contradicting the opinion of a judge who THEY selected?

Sorry, back to the matter in hand :o
 
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Yes your points are correct... if the dog is working.. most of the dogs that are docked now days.. are not working.. THEREFORE it is purely for FASHION =o)

Ho hum.. bearing rein.. doicking ears..? what safty reason can be attributed to this?!
Dockign tails have there place.. but in this day and age more tails are docked for the owners than the dogs safety.

Lou x
 
CaveCanem said:
You cannot show a docked dog unless it is a working dog or was docked pre the ban.
I believe it is illegal unless it is proved that the puppies are working strain and are going on to work?
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The maddest thing is the BASC ring at Crufts is designed for proper working dogs (they have to have a signed certificate from a Gamekeeper stating they work on their shoot, although not hard to do if you are friendly with a Gamekeeper!!) yet you cannot show a dog legally docked after the ban in the ring!! The number of IWSs being shown in the AVS Class is on the up :rolleyes:!
 
"Most" dogs? Is that an official statistic? Because I am in a country where they are still very docking-happy and I have not seen a docked dog for months.

I think Hen can tell you a tale or two about the misery she and her dog have experienced from an undocked tail.
 
[QUOTE I'd rather see a docked working dog than one in pain with a broken tail.[/QUOTE]

Ditto Annette! Even a 'non working' Spaniel can easily come out of briars on an innocent walk in the woods with terrible damage to its long hairy tail (and I've seen it). IMO docking should be legal.
It IS illegal in Scotland, working or non working dogs:mad:
 
Nailed said:
Yes your points are correct... if the dog is working.. most of the dogs that are docked now days.. are not working.. THEREFORE it is purely for FASHION =o)

Ho hum.. bearing rein.. doicking ears..? what safty reason can be attributed to this?!
Dockign tails have there place.. but in this day and age more tails are docked for the owners than the dogs safety.

Lou x
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How can most of the dogs being legally docked these days not be working?? Yes I know some people find ways around and some dogs do find their way into pet homes, and then of course there are the dogs being illegally docked. But I would say the vast majority of legally docked dogs are working.
 
Canem.. im not disputing that dogs do get hurt.. but come on. The number of working dogs has decreased. Yet docking still goes on in number.. and as said in other posts, its not really that hard to 'prove' the dog is 'working'

Im not saying that dog what are working shouldnt have there tails docked if thats what will stop them getting hurt. Im saying.. that not all dogs that are docked.. work.. and i dont think anyone can deny that..

Lou x
 
CaveCanem said:
I think Hen can tell you a tale or two about the misery she and her dog have experienced from an undocked tail.
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I can indeed! And it would seem we are destined to endure for the rest of his life, as no bleedin' Vet will admit that the only option left is amputation. :mad: They are determined we stick with sprays, strappings etc etc all of which he hates and legs it the second he sees them coming out. Luckily with the cold dry weather we've had it's not been too bad, but now he is back in swimming it is slowly getting shredded again. :( I am dreaded it splitting again as we've only just got his confidence about going into thick cover back again.
 
But what if someone buys a dog as a pet and decides eventually to work it? Like at least one person on here?

I personally don't have a strong view on docking either way, apart from Hen's experience, playing devil's advocate perhaps.

How do you know that a Spangle walking down the street is not also a working dog?
I know some people who run their dogs on the beach or take them out for walks on the woods or in town, you would have no idea they are top level competition or working protection dogs (unless you started running away or towards them, shouting and waving a stick above your head :p)
 
Nailed said:
The number of working dogs has decreased.
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If anything the number has probably gone up. Most beaters these days have at least one dog, usually a Spaniel (as everyone knows they are best) whereas in the past you would have only found a few dogs in the beating line. Then Gamekeepers will have several dogs, Paying Guns often have a dog, Pickers Up, etc etc. Not all will be Spaniels, but a vast majority will.
Commercial shoots are big business, Shooting is most definately not on the decrease. Dogs have a job on Shoots that cannot be replaced by anything else.

Puppies are docked at 3 days old, usually before a breeder has any idea what home they will end up in. So if they work their dogs they will dock the puppies as working homes don't want an undocked dog. If you don't want a docked puppy, go to a breeder that shows or find a litter that isn't docked. It's not hard to do.
 
Interesting thread.

I am buying a pup, out of showing parents (Dad was a crufts winner...), who if not bobtail, will be docked.

I can still show the pup, as long as public are not charged for entry (so not at crufts).

In short, it's legal to dock working breeds. You don't need to prove they're for working. You don't need to say they're not pets. You can still show them.

You just can't let the public see docking isn't banned.

And no, I wouldn't cut my children's ears off to make them look pretty. But if they had an 11th finger than affected their ability to write and type, thus meaning they were impaired at school, I would have it removed.
 
But a tail is part of a dog, not like an eleventh finger (not needed) humans want the tail off, off it goes Meh! always the same.
 
horseyscot said:
Ditto Annette! Even a 'non working' Spaniel can easily come out of briars on an innocent walk in the woods with terrible damage to its long hairy tail (and I've seen it). IMO docking should be legal.
It IS illegal in Scotland, working or non working dogs:mad:
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Very true, Spaniels don't know the difference between working and not! Every patch of bramble has a potential pheasant in it, so even your average pet Spaniel will 'work' to some extent in it's life.

I've heard a lot of Scottish Working Spaniel breeders saying they aren't breeding anymore Spaniels whilst the total ban is still in place. Which is a shame as there are some cracking big Spaniels in Scotland, it will be terrible to lose those lines. :(
 
If a tail is a vital part of a dog, please explain to me the bob-tail gene? Are all bob-tailed dogs severly disabled?

I have owned a bob-tail who showed no signs of being disabled. I have a 1/4 length tailed dog, who shows no signs of disability. Please explain to me what a dog loses when it loses it's tail?

The bob-tail used to wag his stump, so don't you dare tell me he couldn't express his moods!!!

I do not wish to own a working breed with a tail. It's not vanity, it's not cruelty, it's common sense!
 
My friends have stopped breeding OES because of the ban.

Sarah, they still have part of their tail, albeit small. It is not removed completely. If you want to read back over Hen's many posts about her dog's split, bleeding, painful tail?

People are not defending docking for the fun of it or for cosmetic reasons.
 
Henry is not docked, and hopefully will work in the future although it is not really what he was bred or ever intended for. I do worry about his tail, he has never split it so far but he has already collected some very impressive bits of cover in it just out walking - he has pulled bits of bramble longer than himself out before:(

I do not agree with dogs being docked for fashionable purposes but for some working dogs it is infinitely preferable for a dog to have a docked tail from puppyhood than get injured in later life, IMO.
 
Is that to me? (can't tell who the replys are to on here!) Oh no please don't take what i say seriously, i was messing around. I know nothing of dogs or their tails. Just found it funny to compare an eleventh finger to a dogs tail. Lol, but seriously i am of no opiion really. Humans do have control over everything but maybe if i saw an injured working dogs tail i would support docking> who knows. I also know nothing of Bob tails:confused: Is it a stunted tail? see i know nothing :D
 
not read all the replies but it's illegal in scotland unless the vet needs to for humane or welfare reasons - and it's legal in england if you can prove dog is a worker.

i have a rescue cocker who i've trained to work (all my dogs are workers) who came from a dundee housing estate so obv has a long tail. he's constantly ripping it open and my local vets have given me all sorts of things to help stop it - we made it through last season without serious injury but vets did say that if he continues to do it next season - and it become a welfare issue - they would be happy to remove the tail. they think the ban is daft for workers
 
Bobtails are just a dog born without a long tail.

When I hear 'Bobtails' I automatically assume OES, which of course, used to be docked.

Australian Shepherds have naturally bobbed tails.

We do have control over everthing, yes. I kinda like it that way, dogs would be lousy legislators. BAN GINGER PEOPLE! FREE BONES FOR EVERYONE :p
 
CaveCanem said:
My friends have stopped breeding OES because of the ban.

Sarah, they still have part of their tail, albeit small. It is not removed completely. If you want to read back over Hen's many posts about her dog's split, bleeding, painful tail?

People are not defending docking for the fun of it or for cosmetic reasons.
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No i know :) I don't know enough about it. I often comment when i don't have enough info, it's kind of a pain :D But seriously i would not approve if it were for fashion purposes but if it meant a working dog was saved pain then fair dos. Also i imagine it in my strange head to be done at birth with no numbing or pain relief, please tell me this is not how it is done?
 
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