Taking Horse On Loan - Advice

[sasquatch]

So I am taking a horse on full loan for 3 months over summer, and need some advice. I've messaged her owner today to say I'd be able to start either tomorrow or monday, whichever suits her best as I have to finish moving out from uni over the weekend.

I have part loaned and owned, but never full loaned
Horse is a 10yo mare who hasn't really been in work, she's had someone ride her occasionally but hasn't done loads and from what I know of her, she's relatively low mileage. Not been out of work due to lameness, but owner hasn't had time (which is why I'm getting her on loan)

What will I need to be considering - finances I have considered and worked out that it is affordable, if I can get all of B's tack and bits and pieces sold () affording horse definitely won't be an option even if I don't get the jobs I have applied for.

Will rider insurance be something I should look into? B's insurance has lapsed as he is now a field ornament and his insurance cost had risen despite insurance knowing he isn't rideable. I think I was covered on his insurance.

Is it out of place for me to change something like feed or tack? I'm not sure what she's ridden in atm, but would something like changing her bit/noseband or cutting down her feed (especially as she'll be out most of the time) be something I'd need to speak to the owner about?

Also what about lessons - when I part loaned owner was fine with me getting lessons if I had the horse on one of the lesson days and would let me know if she wanted one and was happy with me doing clinics etc. as long as I asked first. Obviously owner won't be riding, but in terms of lessons or trying something like side saddle would I be better asking first? I most likely won't be competing off-yard as I have no box, so going out competing isn't necessarily an issue.

How will I suggest vet bills work? I'm not expecting there to be any but I know they happen. Would I be right to suggest I pay initial call out, and if further treatment is needed that's left to owner?

With breakages etc, is it up for me to replace them? I'm more than willing to replace anything I have broken through accident or carelessness, but if it's something that was already damaged/on the way out and breaks is that still my responsibility or should that lie with owner?

I don't know if there's anything else I haven't thought of, but if anyone can think of anything worth considering and bringing up it'd be appreciated.

I'm very wary that it's only a 3 month loan so don't want to get too invested. It works for both me and horses owner as I get to ride and school (and I've realised I actually enjoy schooling, lol) and do all the things I enjoy, and owner gets someone to keep her horse ticking over for her

 

[be positive]

Most of these questions are something that you need to discuss with the owner, most loans are longer and the loaner will take out full insurance to cover vets bills, PL as well as 3rd party, rider insurance is normally in the package but the cover is minimal so you may want to consider a personal insurance in case of injury.

Changing tack, feed etc may be essential so speak to her about making minor changes without always having to consult her, most people would be happy with a change of bit or noseband if it were for a good reason but not just on a whim, check the condition of the tack before you start using it and if anything is badly worn point it out and if it were me I would replace it before it breaks rather than afterwards, whether you buy then sell afterwards is down to you if the owner doesn't want to spend the money.

They are all sensible considerations that you need to get clarified before committing.

 

[3OldPonies]

As be positive said, these are all questions you need to sort out with the owner, and have answers to in writing, signed by both parties before the loan commences.

The loan is only a short one and personally I wouldn't look to make any changes to feed and tack in that time unless there is an absolute, definite reason too and is agreed with by the owner as I think three months is not long enough to properly build a bond with the horse and to be able to effectively assess that change will be beneficial.

 

[Polos Mum]

have a look at the standard BHS loan contract and start with that as a basic outline, it'll cover the key areas you need to think of. For a short period I would be crystal clear who's covering what and all the eventualities you set out above, discuss with the owner and agree between the two of you.

On insurance/ injuries I'd pretty strongly recommend the owner keeps the horse fully insured (you getting insurance for three months might be tricky) and if there is anything major go wrong and at the end of 3 months you have to hand back a horse mid way through treatment for something the owner will continue to be covered.
Your own rider insurance can be separate.

It's typical to replace like for like on breakages

I'd also have the process for returning clearly in writing, is the owner hoping to loan on to someone else at the end of 3 months or sell (are you expected to help with either of those)

 

[sasquatch]

Thank you, I’ll ask owner about all of these things too, just wasn’t sure if they were legitimate concerns.

Horse won’t be moving yard, and I’m not sure what the plan is after. Will speak to her owner about that too as I hadn’t thought about it.

 

[Leo Walker]

Have a think about whether you want to be financially stretching yourself to bring someone elses horse back into work. With a 3 month loan most of that will be spent on the boring fittening work. I'd just be grateful if someone did that for my horse for free, never mind them paying the bills!

 

[Polos Mum]

If the horses is staying where it is, owner is staying largely responsible and you're just coming to ride for her - then I'm not sure it really is a loan. Are you paying the livery over the three months?
A loan normally means you are fully responsible for the horse and (within reason/ contract) can do what you'd like.

As above if you are doing someone a favour getting their horse back into work over the summer while you have free time then I'm not sure I'd call it a loan and I'd think about whether the you just have an agreement to rider X times a week in return for £Y contribution and leave all the responsibility and complexity with the owner.

 

[DirectorFury]

Have a think about whether you want to be financially stretching yourself to bring someone elses horse back into work. With a 3 month loan most of that will be spent on the boring fittening work. I'd just be grateful if someone did that for my horse for free, never mind them paying the bills!

I agree ^. Move to Swansea and you can have mine (on full livery) for no cost to ride and compete as much as you like! I'll even take you to competitions.

 

[sasquatch]

I agree ^. Move to Swansea and you can have mine (on full livery) for no cost to ride and compete as much as you like! I'll even take you to competitions.

If only I wasn't in Ireland!

I should probably clarify - the horse is on the yard B was on and where he's now retired. Horse hasn't been completely out of work, but probably ridden at least once a week. So horse isn't completely unfit, just hasn't been in consistent (ie more than 4/5 days a week) work. From what I understand, owner would be too busy to really be doing much with her so I would also be doing jobs etc.

I am also more than happy to spend time schooling, I don't know why but recently seem to be enjoying the chance to school more than anything I'm not a great rider nor probably able to offer much by way of actual 'schooling' but since starting lessons at uni I've actually started to enjoy spending 5-10 minutes warming up putting horses through their paces and trying to work them out and think of things to do with them and sometimes wish I wasn't in a lesson and had another 30 minutes to keep going as I am. This may well be because I've not been able to ride more than once a week, and my lessons are jumping lessons and whilst I enjoy them and have jumped bigger than I ever thought I could, I also do really like schooling and flatwork and I think I miss it lol

 

[only_me]

You’re going to be spending most of the 3 months fittening her horse - you’ll hand her back a nice fit horse ready to go out and do things with owner.
Are you sure you want to loan that horse?

If she’s been ridden once a week she still isn’t fit enough to be doing lessons etc. she’d need at least a month of hacking in walk/trot only to get her fitness up to cope with a lesson, even then would be a short lesson.
With Billy I don’t have lessons till he’s been in work at least 8weeks so he is fit enough to work, he’ll have been doing short schooling sessions from week 4 in walk/trot just building blocks until I feel he’s ready for a step up.

 

[sasquatch]

You’re going to be spending most of the 3 months fittening her horse - you’ll hand her back a nice fit horse ready to go out and do things with owner.
Are you sure you want to loan that horse?

If she’s been ridden once a week she still isn’t fit enough to be doing lessons etc. she’d need at least a month of hacking in walk/trot only to get her fitness up to cope with a lesson, even then would be a short lesson.
With Billy I don’t have lessons till he’s been in work at least 8weeks so he is fit enough to work, he’ll have been doing short schooling sessions from week 4 in walk/trot just building blocks until I feel he’s ready for a step up.

I’m not sure how much work she has been doing, but I know B managed fine with a lesson when he was only being ridden once a week. I haven’t been at the yard due to being at uni, but I do know she had someone riding her and it was at least once a week. I know she’s been doing w/t/c and jumped by the girl who’s been riding her too, our hacking is also all uphill and B wasn’t a hacker because he was a disaster so it means I’ll be able to spend time exploring too.

As much as I’d like to be competing, I also enjoy schooling and that sort of stuff and I miss doing it. I don’t mind paying money towards a horse even if I may not get full reward or enjoyment because I get as much enjoyment from how horses improve as I do from winning. I just want to be riding and doing something, I can’t own or loan long term right now due to uni, but don’t want to go back to RS lessons as that’s what I’ve been doing during term and you just miss so much that you get when you have your own horse, or at least access to a horse. Even if I don’t get the job, I’ve budgeted to be able to afford to loan/part loan. I miss B incredibly and it’s hard to even think of not having him around half as much, I’m half way through my 2 and a half hour drive home from Dublin and it’s hit me that this’ll be the first time I’ve come home and can’t just go and give him a hug and throw his dinner over for him. It’s not just him I miss either, it’s all the little things that you don’t get from lessons. Even in work, it was the little things I enjoyed too.

I’ve spent the last year hacking horses in work, which don’t get me wrong, I loved and gained so much experience and really improved my riding from, my summer part loan last year which I also didn’t get as much riding as I wanted out of as his owner took him barefoot over summer, and lessons over the last two semesters in Dublin, which were once a week. My riding has improved, I’m not a world beater, but I love being able to actually feel like I can ride and the horses know what I’m asking and I finally know what I’m asking. Even the last time I sat on B in April before it was confirmed he’s unrideable, in his walk he came round when all I did was take my rein up. The lesson horses are also more responsive to me and I enjoy getting them working properly and feeling like I’m actually able to ride and ask them to work and get a response from them and feel an improvement in how they’re going by the end of the lesson over jumping big fences. I don’t mind the fittening work and the schooling in return for what lots of people see as little reward, because it’s all part of having horses and I miss that so much. I don’t mind paying, I don’t mind not competing. With B now retired to the field, I have nothing to do this summer even if I do get a job. I have no stress relief, and 3 months isn’t enough time to get a project and it’s not affordable and I gave up my stabled there nowhere for a project to go.

I did message her owner this morning about when suits her for me to start, but haven’t heard back yet. So I’m not sure if she’s maybe changed her mind or not as she has been online. The way life seems to be going for me atm it wouldn’t surprise me.

sorry, this got very emotional but it really has hit me this time I’m driving back. Had to pull over to the services as I wasn’t expecting myself to be this upset and it really did only hit me as I was leaving - it had nearly become routine that when I came home I went to the yard first to see B and he would always have his ears pricked and head over the door looking to see if I’d brought him treats or not this time as soon as he heard me.

 

[only_me]

I’m not sure how much work she has been doing, but I know B managed fine with a lesson when he was only being ridden once a week. I haven’t been at the yard due to being at uni, but I do know she had someone riding her and it was at least once a week. I know she’s been doing w/t/c and jumped by the girl who’s been riding her too, our hacking is also all uphill and B wasn’t a hacker because he was a disaster so it means I’ll be able to spend time exploring too.

As much as I’d like to be competing, I also enjoy schooling and that sort of stuff and I miss doing it. I don’t mind paying money towards a horse even if I may not get full reward or enjoyment because I get as much enjoyment from how horses improve as I do from winning. I just want to be riding and doing something, I can’t own or loan long term right now due to uni, but don’t want to go back to RS lessons as that’s what I’ve been doing during term and you just miss so much that you get when you have your own horse, or at least access to a horse. Even if I don’t get the job, I’ve budgeted to be able to afford to loan/part loan. I miss B incredibly and it’s hard to even think of not having him around half as much, I’m half way through my 2 and a half hour drive home from Dublin and it’s hit me that this’ll be the first time I’ve come home and can’t just go and give him a hug and throw his dinner over for him. It’s not just him I miss either, it’s all the little things that you don’t get from lessons. Even in work, it was the little things I enjoyed too.

I’ve spent the last year hacking horses in work, which don’t get me wrong, I loved and gained so much experience and really improved my riding from, my summer part loan last year which I also didn’t get as much riding as I wanted out of as his owner took him barefoot over summer, and lessons over the last two semesters in Dublin, which were once a week. My riding has improved, I’m not a world beater, but I love being able to actually feel like I can ride and the horses know what I’m asking and I finally know what I’m asking. Even the last time I sat on B in April before it was confirmed he’s unrideable, in his walk he came round when all I did was take my rein up. The lesson horses are also more responsive to me and I enjoy getting them working properly and feeling like I’m actually able to ride and ask them to work and get a response from them and feel an improvement in how they’re going by the end of the lesson over jumping big fences. I don’t mind the fittening work and the schooling in return for what lots of people see as little reward, because it’s all part of having horses and I miss that so much. I don’t mind paying, I don’t mind not competing. With B now retired to the field, I have nothing to do this summer even if I do get a job. I have no stress relief, and 3 months isn’t enough time to get a project and it’s not affordable and I gave up my stabled there nowhere for a project to go.

I did message her owner this morning about when suits her for me to start, but haven’t heard back yet. So I’m not sure if she’s maybe changed her mind or not as she has been online. The way life seems to be going for me atm it wouldn’t surprise me.

sorry, this got very emotional but it really has hit me this time I’m driving back. Had to pull over to the services as I wasn’t expecting myself to be this upset and it really did only hit me as I was leaving - it had nearly become routine that when I came home I went to the yard first to see B and he would always have his ears pricked and head over the door looking to see if I’d brought him treats or not this time as soon as he heard me.

Don’t get me wrong, I love riding young horses and teaching them the ropes, I love schooling and love the feeling of being able to produce a young horse well.
But I either will have this horse for a year or 2 or will be being paid to school someone else’s horse. I’d loan a horse to do this for the summer only if it was fit to begin with.

What I meant was that you have a limited time to spend with horses and you will want to enjoy that, for the first couple of months you will be needing to take it slow and steady and basically just go hacking to build up he fitness to be able to do proper lessons. I was just thinking that because your home for a short while would be better off loaning a semi fit horse (once a week isn’t fit, no matter what they do once a week) and being able to crack on a bit more

 

[Orangehorse]

I would recommend getting your own Rider Insurance if you are going to be riding anyone else's animals as a matter of course. I know it can seem like an extra expense, and we always hope we don't need insurance, but lots of people would insist that you do anyway. Read what it covers carefully.

 

[be positive]

Don’t get me wrong, I love riding young horses and teaching them the ropes, I love schooling and love the feeling of being able to produce a young horse well.
But I either will have this horse for a year or 2 or will be being paid to school someone else’s horse. I’d loan a horse to do this for the summer only if it was fit to begin with.

What I meant was that you have a limited time to spend with horses and you will want to enjoy that, for the first couple of months you will be needing to take it slow and steady and basically just go hacking to build up he fitness to be able to do proper lessons. I was just thinking that because your home for a short while would be better off loaning a semi fit horse (once a week isn’t fit, no matter what they do once a week) and being able to crack on a bit more

Without wishing to offend the OP she is a relatively inexperienced rider who wants a horse to enjoy for the summer at a lowish level and is certainly not experienced enough to be paid to school a horse , she has said the horse is already ridden once a week or so in all paces so while not fit it has not be turned away for months or suffered from an injury, over the next few months it should be more than able to step up the work so the OP can enjoy it and have some fun developing her riding at the same time.
There are plenty of people who would be more than happy to have this opportunity with no real strings attached being able to hand it back at the end of the summer break, one of my liveries did exactly the same while at uni, she had never been able to have a horse of her own and being able to loan short term an unfit but sound ex racehorse gave her real pleasure even if at times it was challenging, she managed a few low key comps before he went back to his owners, she has since gone on to buy her own now she is working and has the funds.

There are things for the OP to consider but I don't think the choice of horse is one of them, it sounds ideal for her situation if the terms can be sorted out and she doesn't end up stretched financially, I do think the owner should pay some of the general expenses as it is their horse and they should get it back fitter to do with as they wish.

 

[sasquatch]

Without wishing to offend the OP she is a relatively inexperienced rider who wants a horse to enjoy for the summer at a lowish level and is certainly not experienced enough to be paid to school a horse , she has said the horse is already ridden once a week or so in all paces so while not fit it has not be turned away for months or suffered from an injury, over the next few months it should be more than able to step up the work so the OP can enjoy it and have some fun developing her riding at the same time.
There are plenty of people who would be more than happy to have this opportunity with no real strings attached being able to hand it back at the end of the summer break, one of my liveries did exactly the same while at uni, she had never been able to have a horse of her own and being able to loan short term an unfit but sound ex racehorse gave her real pleasure even if at times it was challenging, she managed a few low key comps before he went back to his owners, she has since gone on to buy her own now she is working and has the funds.

There are things for the OP to consider but I don't think the choice of horse is one of them, it sounds ideal for her situation if the terms can be sorted out and she doesn't end up stretched financially, I do think the owner should pay some of the general expenses as it is their horse and they should get it back fitter to do with as they wish.

No, that is perfectly fair enough. That is how I would pretty much sum myself up, and pretty much the nail on the head. I'm not necessarily inexperienced, my experience is just with a very unusual, challenging horse who has taught me a lot but had his limits and as a result I am very novice in some areas and not in others and trying to get everything caught up is quite hard. I know a lot of my problems come from confidence, and this is something directly related to B and how difficult he could be and where I know my own gaps in what I should know are.

I know the horse I'm taking on will need schooling, but she also has had some schooling done by her owner so it isn't like I'm starting from scratch. I'm able to school a horse who has previously been schooled and just needs a bit of a refresher, and I'll be able to continue lessons with my instructor that had also really, really helped me improve as a rider and I can learn and the horse can benefit too as we go.

As much as I want to start competing more, I'd rather have a more relaxed summer to improve myself as a rider. I have plenty of chances to compete through uni and not much when I'm home outside of local competitions held at the yard.

Finances wise, I have money put aside and all of B's things to sell that can go towards additional lessons/local shows etc., so can't see it being an issue if I don't get a job. I know how much B cost and as it's summer horses will be out so I can knock a bit off for that as she shouldn't need as much for shavings.

Riders insurance I will look into as I'm no longer covered as we didn't renew B's. I think I had a friend who took out a cheap monthly policy so will ask her who it was with

 

[AmyMay]

OP, can you currently afford this horse?

 

[Leo Walker]

OP, can you currently afford this horse?

No. When you have to sell things to make ends meet then its not affordable.

 

[Auslander]

I don't think you're taking on board that a horse that is currently in no work (once a week is not "in work") will not be fit enough to school/compete/do anything more than progressively more hacking for the majority of this loan period. There is a distinct difference between "could" and "should" with regards to workload when it comes to unfit horses. Just because a horse willingly does what you want it to do, that doesn't make it ok. She will need to be brought back into harder work carefully to make sure that she is strong in wind and limb before the fun stuff starts

 

[sasquatch]

No. When you have to sell things to make ends meet then its not affordable.

I am more than able to afford the horse. I have put enough money aside for livery, shoes, feed and a weekly lesson (or can cut the lesson out if needed). I'm a student who gets a student loan as my income currently, and will be living at home so I don't have rent to pay. Selling B's things will be extra money to go towards competitions, clinics etc, going towards B's emergency fund and towards me getting some additional lessons next semester. Money isn't stretched or tight, but I am on a budget. Either way, B's stuff needs to be sold and it isn't being sold just so I can afford to loan a horse. I can afford the loan without selling anything, it just means I have a tighter budget.

 

[Leo Walker]

I am more than able to afford the horse. I have put enough money aside for livery, shoes, feed and a weekly lesson (or can cut the lesson out if needed). I'm a student who gets a student loan as my income currently, and will be living at home so I don't have rent to pay. Selling B's things will be extra money to go towards competitions, clinics etc, going towards B's emergency fund and towards me getting some additional lessons next semester. Money isn't stretched or tight, but I am on a budget. Either way, B's stuff needs to be sold and it isn't being sold just so I can afford to loan a horse. I can afford the loan without selling anything, it just means I have a tighter budget.

I understand that you feel desparate for a horse but thats not what you said in your OP

finances I have considered and worked out that it is affordable, if I can get all of B's tack and bits and pieces sold () affording horse definitely won't be an option even if I don't get the jobs I have applied for.

The horse is being ridden once a week. The schooling you enjoy wont be able to be done for ages. You wont be able to do what you want on this horse. Why stretch yourself t do it?

Put an ad up and find something that you can ride for free or for a small contribution. I know on my yard of 6 horses there are 3 that the owners would happily let you ride and spend time with.

 

[AmyMay]

- finances I have considered and worked out that it is affordable, if I can get all of B's tack and bits and pieces sold () affording horse definitely won't be an option even if I don't get the jobs I have applied for.

Currently you can't afford it.

Your student loan is not an income.....

 

[Cowpony]

I'd try to agree with the owner that this is a share, not a loan. You might ride the horse every day, and she might not ride at all, but the horse would remain her responsibility to pay all costs for. I'd also try to negotiate not paying for the share, or not paying very much, as you would be doing her a favour by exercising it, schooling, getting it fit, looking after it etc. Sounds like a mutually beneficial arrangement which I wouldn't expect either side to pay for. She gets the benefit of not having to spend any time looking after the horse or riding it, plus getting a fit, schooled horse at the end of 3 months, and you get the benefit of being able to ride for free in return for all chores.

 

[sasquatch]

Currently you can't afford it.

Your student loan is not an income.....

it's not an income, but it's money that I've put aside specifically for a loan and have been putting money aside specifically since Easter when I knew B wasn't coming right. I know how much a loan would be likely to cost due to knowing how much B costed, both over summer and winter. If this was money coming out of savings, would this be as much of an issue? Selling B's things wasn't originally factored in, and if his things don't sell it doesn't mean I won't be able to afford the loan, it just means I have a bit less spending money.

I didn't word that part of OP well, but affording the loan itself and livery costs, shoes, feed and a weekly lesson (as well as money set aside incase something needs to be replaced) is not an issue. The loan is only 3 months and the owner is aware of this.

Put an ad up and find something that you can ride for free or for a small contribution. I know on my yard of 6 horses there are 3 that the owners would happily let you ride and spend time with.

I put up an ad in April and the only response I had wasn't suitable due to location and I would have been too big for the pony. Ad did state it was a summer loan or part loan, and that it would be starting in mid-late May and ending the first week of September. I had a similar experience last year, and was really, really lucky to have found my part loan through coincidence more than anything else. I don't know if it's just where I am or not that it's hard to find something short-term.

I'd try to agree with the owner that this is a share, not a loan. You might ride the horse every day, and she might not ride at all, but the horse would remain her responsibility to pay all costs for. I'd also try to negotiate not paying for the share, or not paying very much, as you would be doing her a favour by exercising it, schooling, getting it fit, looking after it etc. Sounds like a mutually beneficial arrangement which I wouldn't expect either side to pay for. She gets the benefit of not having to spend any time looking after the horse or riding it, plus getting a fit, schooled horse at the end of 3 months, and you get the benefit of being able to ride for free in return for all chores.

I'm going to be speaking to the owner on monday and may see her today as well when I go up to see B anyway so can see what she says. I think something similar to what you've suggested would work for us both and I can suggest it to her and see what she says, thank you

 

[ihatework]

OP if I were you I’d negotiate with the owner a share/part loan type of arrangement whereby you contribute in chores and/or a small fixed sum per week/month.

It really isn’t worth spending out ££££ on a short term full loan whereby most of the time you will be fittening the horse